Should Classifieds Allow Replying?

[Davefr]

You've been here 5 years and haven't found the " Product and Vendor Reviews " section yet?

Go to the classifieds and look at the sampling of sellers and then tell me how many have a significant base of feedback in the vendor reviews. (ie only a small few)

My point is that there may be reasons to choose the GJ classifieds over Ebay but buyer protection is not one of them!!

This isn't a ding on the integrity of GJ members. However Ebay has layers and layers of various systems to protect buyers.

 

[Super Sport]

I'm not convinced that changing it back to allowing replies will increase traffic to the way it once was. I don't feel like that was enough benefit to change the flow of traffic as we've seen.

I do think that titles should be allowed to be edited by the seller. I also think that decreasing the 72-hr bump rule to 24-hr would be reasonable. This was the rule on other forums I have sold on, and it never seemed to be cause for concern. This itself would increase the flow of traffic in the section.

To be honest, as a seller I just don't see much point selling here. Ebay gives much more exposure on smaller items that can be shipped, and the market here for large items for local sale is just too limited. Of course it doesn't hurt to cross-post, but posting here has limited upsides. The only times I feel the desire to post here in the classifieds is if I'm offering an expensive item where the savings in ebay fees allows me to offer an item at a good price to buyers while saving a couple bucks myself, or when I'm selling items that are highly sought after by a large market (often good condition SO stuff). Even with replies disabled, I usually don't have much trouble selling these types of things here.

 

[mtwaterguy]

You mean it's intended to be a "Members, Vendors and Product Reviews" section? I'm not the only one who thinks it's not...there's a post titled "Any ratings of GJ classified sellers here?" with 0 replies in the month since the post.

If you look at the thread you'll see that there are lot's of classifieds seller reviews there, including a few scammers stickied at the top of the page. Vinko's post is just a statement, not a question. No reply necessary.

 

[sleepy127]

The biggest problem would be with the people who would post in your add claiming to have seen the same thing for sale a lot cheaper or in some way bad mouthing your price.

 

[firworks]

The biggest problem would be with the people who would post in your add claiming to have seen the same thing for sale a lot cheaper or in some way bad mouthing your price.

I really don't see that as a problem. I think that one of the big things around here is helping other GJers find deals. I don't really think the Classifieds are intended for getting top dollar for every item but more for sharing the wealth with fellow GJers and also helping to move some specialty stuff that places like CL might have a hard time moving. If you post up Wright Tools here people will know what they are. If you post them on CL people may not. I've picked up Wright, Armstrong, Williams, Wera and Wiha stuff at tool auctions that people assumed were junk while they fought over dinged up Craftsman and SNAP ONNNNNNN N NNN tools.

The best are when I see a bag of screw drivers or allen keys marked "German?" and I can get it for 2$.

 

[mtwaterguy]

The biggest problem would be with the people who would post in your add claiming to have seen the same thing for sale a lot cheaper or in some way bad mouthing your price.

That was one of the main reasons for the no reply rule change. People arguing over price as well as turning the ad into a gossip session.

 

[Jason280]

Ive been buying and selling on internet boards for well over a decade, on probably 20+ different sites, and comments almost always cause more problems than they're worth. Primarily, and this has been mentioned, the problem is tire-kickers b**ching & moaning about the price. Its one thing to think a price is out of reason, but debating it within the ad itself is not the place. Now, if people were intelligent enough to mind their own business and let capitalism function untethered, then it wouldn't be an issue. But, you always have folks who think a price is too high, and are damned determined to tell anyone and everyone who will listen. Once again, doing this in an ad itself is not the place.

Another issue you see is someone may post a unique or otherwise interesting item, and then you have 15 people commenting on how "cool" it is. Before you know it, its a 2 page thread with 15 different people talking about how they had one 10 years ago, or always wanted to buy one, etc. On a site where each response bumps the thread to the top, its a big problem because it moves all other adds that much farther down. Just like with pricing, debating/discussing the merits of an item is not appropriate in a classifieds ad.

Ive also seen issues with people attempting to post offers, devolving the ad into a petty auction. You'll have people post random questions, even when the information is clearly posted in the ad, and others will flat out **** all over an add for little to no reason at all. Removing comments solves this issue, forces people to conduct all discussions through PM/email, and clears the section of unnecessary clutter.

Now, if you had a moderator policing the section, it may help. You could have clear cut rules, and violators could be restricted or banned from the forum for breaking rules...but that takes time, a couple people monitoring the section, and you will always have members crying about getting in trouble. Restrict responses, and its a non issue.

 

[four.cycle]

Now, if you had a moderator policing the section,

(emphasis added)

^ Salient points, sir.

And that line I quoted above gets right to the crux of the matter: reviewing some very thoughtful and insightful comments here, it seems evident that without a moderator (or two) constantly policing the "Classifeds" section, problems will arise.
As I said previously, I'm certain those gentlemen have better things to do with their time. Ergo: perhaps the "no comment" rule is perfectly appropriate.

 

[FMC1959]

Ive been buying and selling on internet boards for well over a decade, on probably 20+ different sites, and comments almost always cause more problems than they're worth. Primarily, and this has been mentioned, the problem is tire-kickers b**ching & moaning about the price. Its one thing to think a price is out of reason, but debating it within the ad itself is not the place. Now, if people were intelligent enough to mind their own business and let capitalism function untethered, then it wouldn't be an issue. But, you always have folks who think a price is too high, and are damned determined to tell anyone and everyone who will listen. Once again, doing this in an ad itself is not the place.

Another issue you see is someone may post a unique or otherwise interesting item, and then you have 15 people commenting on how "cool" it is. Before you know it, its a 2 page thread with 15 different people talking about how they had one 10 years ago, or always wanted to buy one, etc. On a site where each response bumps the thread to the top, its a big problem because it moves all other adds that much farther down. Just like with pricing, debating/discussing the merits of an item is not appropriate in a classifieds ad.

Ive also seen issues with people attempting to post offers, devolving the ad into a petty auction. You'll have people post random questions, even when the information is clearly posted in the ad, and others will flat out **** all over an add for little to no reason at all. Removing comments solves this issue, forces people to conduct all discussions through PM/email, and clears the section of unnecessary clutter.

Now, if you had a moderator policing the section, it may help. You could have clear cut rules, and violators could be restricted or banned from the forum for breaking rules...but that takes time, a couple people monitoring the section, and you will always have members crying about getting in trouble. Restrict responses, and its a non issue.

I am one who is in favor of allowing replies. Reading your comments above and seeing how members are with their comments and replies in other threads, I can see the issues that can happen.

Without strict policing by mods, it might be easier to leave things as they are.

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

IMO the Classifieds are better off without the ability to reply, Did you guys forget about all the price bashing, sellers manipulating the bump policy by randomly posting "list updated" or "sold items removed" every time there ad made it off the front page? It was a babysitting nightmare for the Mods, even now with Replys Off you still can't get people to follow the rules. In regards to the Smamming chatter, Plain and simple... If you protect yourself by not paying with unsececured funds, you are prone to being taken advantage off. Regardless if you have the ability to scream and keyboard mash at the Seller. I don't have any problems selling on the Classifieds, then again, I don't generally list at full EBay price, I take the savings and pass it on to the Members. Do I think the classifieds genre has changed? Yes, there are less people looking for a 1980 ratchet to fill a hole.

My 2 cents.

This. While there used to be a lot more ads, it was tough to sort through and I feel it's a lot simpler to buy the way it is now. I was burned a hand full of times by scammers when the old system was in tact as well as many others, you don't hear about it now that the classifieds have changed.

 

[nevercouldfigureitout]

At first I was iffy about the no replys but now I like it, keeps the thread clean & cuts thread shitting down to zero which I like. Nothing worse than someone trying to sell something an someone bashing it or just being a pure ***. I'm a firm believer if you don't have anything good to say then say nothing at all. So my vote goes to keep things like it is.

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

A lot of the active sellers from when comments were allowed aren't even active on the board anymore... I think there's a lot more to the classifieds "slowing down" than the removal of comments.

 

[iScream]

When it comes to realistic prices I think it would help a lot if sellers would stop removing the prices after items sell. If a seller can quickly search to see what a particular item usually goes for and buyers can do the same, there's much less need for bickering.

I've never understood why so many people do that.

Chris

 

[Davefr]

When it comes to realistic prices I think it would help a lot if sellers would stop removing the prices after items sell. If a seller can quickly search to see what a particular item usually goes for and buyers can do the same, there's much less need for bickering.

I've never understood why so many people do that.

Chris

^^^Same here. It defies logic to be so afraid of your sold prices and impedes others from establishing a realistic market price.

I'd love to understand why they do it?? What are they afraid of??

 

[iScream]

Now, if people were intelligent enough to mind their own business and let capitalism function untethered, then it wouldn't be an issue. But, you always have folks who think a price is too high, and are damned determined to tell anyone and everyone who will listen. Once again, doing this in an ad itself is not the place.

Another issue you see is someone may post a unique or otherwise interesting item, and then you have 15 people commenting on how "cool" it is. Before you know it, its a 2 page thread with 15 different people talking about how they had one 10 years ago, or always wanted to buy one, etc. On a site where each response bumps the thread to the top, its a big problem because it moves all other adds that much farther down. Just like with pricing, debating/discussing the merits of an item is not appropriate in a classifieds ad.

I disagree with the capitalism comment. The GJ classifieds shouldn't be somewhere you make a profit on anything. Especially for the leaches who don't participate in the forums but abuse the classifieds by trying to flip tools.

I know the price comments can get out of hand but where else can it be done if not in the actual ad?

As far as the interesting item comments, I see it just the opposite. I think the talk draws more people in and creates more interest in the item being sold.

I really don't get why people get so bent out of shape on internet forums about classified sections. In almost all cases the for sale section is really supposed to be an extra feature for participating members. Overall it's still a forum intended for discussion. It might be annoying at times when someone posts a different opinion about the value of some item but we get annoyed with each other in the other sections of the site as well.

And what is wrong with someone posting a link that shows something you're selling can be bought brand new for the same price or cheaper? The Garage Journal is filled with some of the nicest and most helpful people I've run across in my twenty something years of using different computer based discussion boards.

But it's wrong to help people in the classified section? How does that make sense?

If you paid $100 for that tool but it can be bought for $80 you should have researched better before buying. If it can be bought for $80 just this week because of some special sale price, wait until next week to sell yours.

I know I'm over simplifying some and there will always be some price nazi taking it to an extreme but we make this whole thing more trouble than it should be.

Chris

 

[woody 73]

Interesting comments out of 5 pages worth of reading. The main reason I stopped buying had nothing to do with the post replies (I did like them).

Back then and even today I did not have a paypal account and I am not a member of E-bay. Trust me back then I would have loved to buy a ton of tools but when I would send a pm it seemed like 98% of the members wanted their cash "NOW" and they would not want cash sent in the mail or bank checks or my own checks so I missed out big time.

So with so few guys trusting me I was very limited in what I could buy; and as far as my trust I have never seen anyone posting "Hey woody is an ok guy". So I just stopped looking at the for sale posts, again it had nothing to do with the post replies.

Like I said before this is one can of worms best left alone.

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

^^^Same here. It defies logic to be so afraid of your sold prices and impedes others from establishing a realistic market price.

I'd love to understand why they do it?? What are they afraid of??

From experience on other forums, if you leave a price there people will think it's still available and try to buy it even if it says sold right next to it. Don't ask me to explain that logic.

It would make more sense to just delete the item from the thread, but then there's the people that click the title saying Craftsman, Snap On, etc. and get bent out of shape when there's no Snap On tool in the listing anymore. The ability to edit the thread title would solve this and keep people from creating new threads when they have a new item to sell. Combining all for sale threads from each user into one doesn't work when an item is added and the title remains the same. Only allow one for sale thread per user like now, but allow the thread titles to be edited.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I disagree with the capitalism comment. The GJ classifieds shouldn't be somewhere you make a profit on anything. Especially for the leaches who don't participate in the forums but abuse the classifieds by trying to flip tools.

Ahh, we found the winner as to why GJ Classifieds don't work anymore. Even AFTER paying all the fees to eBay, PayPal, Shipping, etc... I'm always WAY ahead of the game ANYWHERE else.
So you see...Capitalism IS working exactly as it should. This market is no longer a worthwhile market, so people with stuff to sell have gone elsewhere.

Not saying it would fix the problem but I agree, no replies hurts more then it helps. Whoever mentioned "Thread shitting" I agree...I never quite understood why people go out of their way to say "Hey, that's only 5.00 less then a new one" how hard is it to just move along? But for product specific questions which may not have been in the listing, it would be invaluable to be able to ask "Are there any owner markings" or "what date code are those stamped with"...something that pertains to the item and benefits everyone.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Ahh, we found the winner as to why GJ Classifieds don't work anymore. Even AFTER paying all the fees to eBay, PayPal, Shipping, etc... I'm always WAY ahead of the game ANYWHERE else.
So you see...Capitalism IS working exactly as it should. This market is no longer a worthwhile market, so people with stuff to sell have gone elsewhere.

Not saying it would fix the problem but I agree, no replies hurts more then it helps. Whoever mentioned "Thread shitting" I agree...I never quite understood why people go out of their way to say "Hey, that's only 5.00 less then a new one" how hard is it to just move along? But for product specific questions which may not have been in the listing, it would be invaluable to be able to ask "Are there any owner markings" or "what date code are those stamped with"...something that pertains to the item and benefits everyone.

Why is it easier to post in the thread than to send a PM?

 

[SMKS]

So with so few guys trusting me I was very limited in what I could buy; and as far as my trust I have never seen anyone posting "Hey woody is an ok guy". So I just stopped looking at the for sale posts, again it had nothing to do with the post replies.

It most likely has little to do with "trusting" you. For the average seller, it's about 10x more hassle to wait for a payment in the mail, take the check to the bank to deposit it, etc.

It's way, way easier and faster to get a paypal payment, ship the item and be done with it. That's why I only take paypal, because it's way easier.

Why is it easier to post in the thread than to send a PM?

I don't think the "ease" is what has damaged the classifieds. Some people have shared concerns that the process is less transparent now and less interesting. Before, it was easy to see if someone had called an item, who was next in line, etc.

When I was arguing for the change to not allow replies, I believed it wouldn't hurt the classifieds. It's very clear it did. It doesn't exactly make sense to me that it did, but it did, so now I say we should change it back.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

From experience on other forums, if you leave a price there people will think it's still available and try to buy it even if it says sold right next to it. Don't ask me to explain that logic.

It would make more sense to just delete the item from the thread, but then there's the people that click the title saying Craftsman, Snap On, etc. and get bent out of shape when there's no Snap On tool in the listing anymore. The ability to edit the thread title would solve this and keep people from creating new threads when they have a new item to sell. Combining all for sale threads from each user into one doesn't work when an item is added and the title remains the same. Only allow one for sale thread per user like now, but allow the thread titles to be edited.

The title, price, location, and ad are all editable through "go advanced" editing. I usually delete everything and change all fields to "sold" to avoid getting PM's 6 months later.

 

[mtwaterguy]

It most likely has little to do with "trusting" you. For the average seller, it's about 10x more hassle to wait for a payment in the mail, take the check to the bank to deposit it, etc.

It's way, way easier and faster to get a paypal payment, ship the item and be done with it. That's why I only take paypal, because it's way easier.


I don't think the "ease" is what has damaged the classifieds. Some people have shared concerns that the process is less transparent now and less interesting. Before, it was easy to see if someone had called an item, who was next in line, etc.

When I was arguing for the change to not allow replies, I believed it wouldn't hurt the classifieds. It's very clear it did. It doesn't exactly make sense to me that it did, but it did, so now I say we should change it back.

You missed my point. People are saying they want to be able to ask questions about the items. So why not just PM the seller. As far as not replying hurting the classifieds I disagree. Any question can be asked and answered by PM. I think pricing and selection are the reason for less action.

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

The title, price, location, and ad are all editable through "go advanced" editing. I usually delete everything and change all fields to "sold" to avoid getting PM's 6 months later.

The title updates the post title, but it does not update the title that is visible from the classifieds forum. I have been on other forums where it does, but not this one.

 

[Olafur]

We are democracy now?

 

[FMC1959]

What is definitely better with replies versus PM's is that everything is above board. The whole process is more trustworthy.

 

[Jarhead0408]

You missed my point. People are saying they want to be able to ask questions about the items. So why not just PM the seller. As far as not replying hurting the classifieds I disagree. Any question can be asked and answered by PM. I think pricing and selection are the reason for less action.

But then can you explain why the classifieds died so suddenly when replies were disabled? It didn't take more than a week or two for it to become nothing.

We used to have huge quantities of well used tools come up for sale on here. They were scrounged from yard sales, auctions, swap meets, flea markets etc.
All kinds of unique tools came up. A guy could actually keep an eye out for that one piece to complete a set. The decrease in 2nd/3rd hand tools in favor of more truck brand tools (both used and nearly new) at high prices came about afterwards. When the replies were disabled, it dried up the used tools side of things imo.

 

[Jarhead0408]

As a side note, I'm pretty surprised that regardless of which camp you are in, we still have less than 300 votes in. This thread has a ton of views, but I think that's because all of us participating are coming back to check on it's progress.

 

[logical]

I may have to change my vote to "allow replies". There is a particularly stupid post there today that begs for a good old fashioned sarcastic beatdown. Yeah... probably best they aren't allowed.

 

[ClineWrench]

I voted yes for replies. Was supposed to see how lopsided the polls were. I really like HautPots idea of allowing he poster to decide if replies are activated or not.

 

[mtwaterguy]

But then can you explain why the classifieds died so suddenly when replies were disabled? It didn't take more than a week or two for it to become nothing.

First I don't agree that the classifieds has become nothing. I do agree that there has been a drop in participation, due to no replies. I think that's a good thing. Classifieds were becoming another free parking area. Discussions about price and back and forth about how cool the item was or wasn't was a big negative for me.

 

[justme-]

Agreed with mtwaterguy. Replies bread discussions that may have increased post counts and section views but failed to contribute or facilitate a sale. No need to comment "how much" when the poster fails to put a price...we as posters should follow the rules, mods should be looking for that, or if it continues ( and there have been a lot of them lately) maybe there should be mod approval required for posting to classifieds to ensure rules are followed.
Pm is all that is needed to contact a seller for questions or offers...a recurring question would likely result in the op editing the post anyway.

Participation is down because participation is down...if not being able to reply and have irrelevant conversations in classifieds has dissuaded posters from selling here, is that really a detriment to the site? Were those people really involved for the right reasons?

If we "must" restore replies at least allow ops to delete all replies in their thread so they can remove inappropriate comments

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I don't know if this was mentioned earlier b/c I haven't read through the whole thread, but why do people feel it necessary to bump their thread when they've sold their stuff?

All you have to do is edit the thread to show it's been sold and that's that. Kills me how people feel they have to push their ad to the top to say it's sold.

 

[SMKS]

There are some good comments here so far.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

What about something like:

□ Allow Replies to your sale ad
□ Disable replies to your sale ad

That way the seller can choose.

I vote for this theory. It's easier to reply to a thread than going into the PM message console, drafting, then sending the message.

I am sure there are pros and cons for everything, but there has been times I wanted to ask a question or point something out and said screw because I didn't want to go thru the hassle of sending a message.

 

[nine4gmc]

If there is an option like above and the seller chose NOT to allow replies, I personally would steer clear of them. That's just shady sh1t.

 

[HOTFR8]

The Poll topic has been moved to the Q & S area of the GJ.

 

[DenisG]

I voted "No." There are too many debates about the relative values and worth of tools. The "Classifieds" should be used where people have already done their homework and are ready to buy. I don't mind sellers advertising what they are selling, but the debates should be done elsewhere.

 

[mtwaterguy]

I vote for this theory. It's easier to reply to a thread than going into the PM message console, drafting, then sending the message.

I am sure there are pros and cons for everything, but there has been times I wanted to ask a question or point something out and said screw because I didn't want to go thru the hassle of sending a message.

Really, one extra click of the mouse makes it too much of a hassle? Maybe that kind of attitude is the real problem?

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I voted "No." There are too many debates about the relative values and worth of tools. The "Classifieds" should be used where people have already done their homework and are ready to buy. I don't mind sellers advertising what they are selling, but the debates should be done elsewhere.

If you weren't a member when the Classifieds allowed replies, then how can you know enough to offer an opinion?

 

[Corvette Cave]

from one of the newbies here:
I'm a long-time member of another "forum" site where there's a "for sale" section, and there aren't many problems there with people being able to interact with the sellers in the open forum, but: it's made clear that the "for sale" section (as well as the "lost and found") section is exclusively for the purpose of engaging in the transaction (or finding lost items, in the second case), and not a venue for superfluous comments or discussions.

I suppose it all depends upon whether people choose to act like adults or not.