Should I be skeered ?

[gregtwojeeps]

1959 Model Murray 100 amp service equipment in a old house we bought. It looks solid, but then over the years you can see where "unhandy" hands got in to it. I think I have my work cut out for me.

 

[rockwithjason]

Nothing you cant handle greg

 

[Norcal]

Some older Cutler-Hammer gear used the same Heinemann breaker as a main, but it's time for a upgrade, & whenever you see SQ D HOM in another mfgs. gear, it's always a bad sign since SQ D's breakers are not classified for other makes of panel. Murray & Crouse-Hinds (what Murray was named for years) were listed for ITE, Westinghouse breakers also.

 

[stikman56]

Wow, looks sketchy for sure. I'm sure you'll get it cleaned up and meeting code in no time though.

 

[Justanoldguy]

No idea what skeered means?

 

[yhprum]

skeered = scared , or maybe

 

[theoldwizard1]

What are the fuses for ?


In the 80s my Dad bought a "cabin". The whole hose ran on 4 - 15A fuses !

 

[pepi]

Cloth insulation on the wiring ain't looking so good.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Open up that entire section of wall from ceiling to floor in that stud bay, buy a new 200 amp main 40/80 panel with a main breaker (get a "pack" that comes with a bunch of breakers all for a special price) and tag everything and change it out. At the same time, replace the service wires from the meter and replace the meter socket with a new one with a disconnect and get the power company to upgrade to a 200 amp service.

Make new wall panels to fill the wall above and below the new breaker panel (MDF or similar) and screw them in. In the future changes are easily made by unscrewing the panels and accessing the top and bottom of the new panel.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is this the main panel with only a meter on the outside(no disconnect), or ?

If this ISNT the main panel, and u change it out, then u will have to upgrade the feeder to 4-wire....

Yes, the Sq. D should NOT have been used...cutler hammer is classified for other panels so those are fine...

I would put in a new panel and get rid of the fuse box. Put in j box and extend the wires into the new panel...

 

[joel63]

Open up that entire section of wall from ceiling to floor in that stud bay, buy a new 200 amp main 40/80 panel with a main breaker (get a "pack" that comes with a bunch of breakers all for a special price) and tag everything and change it out. At the same time, replace the service wires from the meter and replace the meter socket with a new one with a disconnect and get the power company to upgrade to a 200 amp service.

Make new wall panels to fill the wall above and below the new breaker panel (MDF or similar) and screw them in. In the future changes are easily made by unscrewing the panels and accessing the top and bottom of the new panel.

Charles

Only way to go in my book. ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[James-W]

Open up that entire section of wall from ceiling to floor in that stud bay, buy a new 200 amp main 40/80 panel with a main breaker (get a "pack" that comes with a bunch of breakers all for a special price) and tag everything and change it out. At the same time, replace the service wires from the meter and replace the meter socket with a new one with a disconnect and get the power company to upgrade to a 200 amp service.

Make new wall panels to fill the wall above and below the new breaker panel (MDF or similar) and screw them in. In the future changes are easily made by unscrewing the panels and accessing the top and bottom of the new panel.

Charles

I agree completely. It may cost a little more initially, but down the road you will be very happy you did it.

 

[Falcon67]

Cloth insulation on the wiring ain't looking so good.

But it makes it so easy to get a probe in there.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Open up that entire section of wall from ceiling to floor in that stud bay, buy a new 200 amp main 40/80 panel with a main breaker (get a "pack" that comes with a bunch of breakers all for a special price) and tag everything and change it out. At the same time, replace the service wires from the meter and replace the meter socket with a new one with a disconnect and get the power company to upgrade to a 200 amp service.

Make new wall panels to fill the wall above and below the new breaker panel (MDF or similar) and screw them in. In the future changes are easily made by unscrewing the panels and accessing the top and bottom of the new panel.

Charles

Yep this is what I am doing ^^^ , . I always put some spare cables up and down and terminate in J-boxes for future use also. .. Since the service panel is in sort of a higher traffic hall, I will be putting drywall back and slick finishing it, in lieu of access panels.

The old gyspum board is tough stuff to cut out on the 1959" hard as a rock studs" but my sawzall made short work of it. .... I started on it early this morning, what a mess I made. I think the missus is going to take the Stihl chainsaw back she gave me for my birthday Friday, it is that bad, even with plastic walls up...

Since I have all gas heat/water heater, I'll just be putting in a 150 amp - 30 cir Sq. D service with the through the roof mast overhead. The POCO will be telling me what I can put in for sure ( 150 vs. 200 amp) , as they will not likely change out the transformer that 3 houses are now sharing with me. ....

Sorry for the sidewise pics but the hall is not wide enough to get wider angled pics. The pic of the 10/3 NM cable on the concrete patio is what I removed today from the crawlspace that was feeding the 3 ton A/C condensing unit. It appears the AC was on the end of the house originally, then they moved in to the back center of the house by the patio. Duh, how does one talk over a condensing unit running by the patio ?... The Type S- two fuse box was operating the A/C....

The homeowner ( I hope a HVAC tech did not do this wiring ) just "western union" type spliced the tap (the spider legged thing) in to the 10/3 NM and taped it for his feed to the condensing unit. Note all the other tape jobs also.

I am going to be a busy fellow, getting this old house wiring mess fixed. But I am not skeered though ( scared), but I am gonna be tired and it is going to take me a while now that I am long in tooth and not what I used to be. .

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP:

Is this the main panel with only a meter on the outside(no disconnect), or ?

If this ISNT the main panel, and u change it out, then u will have to upgrade the feeder to 4-wire....

 

[theoldwizard1]

Interesting combination of cables. Old Romex, newer 12/3 Romex and armored cable !

Those "western union" splice are scary !

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ +1 the "HVAC guy" was apparently really trying to start a fire to heat house!!

Good luck OP with your upgrade.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The cost difference between a 150 amp 30 space, and a 200 amp 40 space is so minimal in the big scheme of things, it doesn't make sense to shortchange yourself. What happens when you decide to covert to a heat pump or elect water heater in the future (never know what the future will bring.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Re: Should I be scared of this old service wiring ?

OP:

Is this the main panel with only a meter on the outside(no disconnect), or ?

If this ISNT the main panel, and u change it out, then u will have to upgrade the feeder to 4-wire....

Yes, it has a overhead aerial service that swings to a "through the roof "mast type service... Yes, Charles I agree, 200 vs. 150 amp I may as well go with the 200 amp.

The existing 100 amp service comes down a 1959 vintage 1.5 in. rigid conduit mast pipe... down in to the top of meter base... Aluminum SEU service conductors then come out of the back of the meter and down in to the interior stud wall ....then up through the bottom of the old Murray panel box. .... Has no disconnect and is probably in violation of the "7 ft " unprotected SE conductor rule.

 

[Norcal]

Re: Should I be scared of this old service wiring ?

Yes, it has a overhead aerial service that swings to a "through the roof "mast type service... Yes, Charles I agree, 200 vs. 150 amp I may as well go with the 200 amp.

The existing 100 amp service comes down a 1959 vintage 1.5 in. rigid conduit mast pipe... down in to the top of meter base... Aluminum SEU service conductors then come out of the back of the meter and down in to the interior stud wall ....then up through the bottom of the old Murray panel box. .... Has no disconnect and is probably in violation of the "7 ft " unprotected SE conductor rule.

There is no "7 foot rule" in the NEC as they do not specify a length, a lot of AHJ's have determined that the maximum length is 5 feet though.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The cost difference between a 150 amp 30 space, and a 200 amp 40 space is so minimal in the big scheme of things, it doesn't make sense to shortchange yourself. What happens when you decide to covert to a heat pump or elect water heater in the future (never know what the future will bring.

Mr. Fusion !

 

[Charles (in GA)]

An outside disconnect is not a code requirement, it just makes things much better so far as working on the inside panel. If you get a combo panel with breakers in it, your outside meter/disconnect is useful for powering A/C units, well pumps, etc, without having to run wire from inside the house. Also good for supplying a detached shop.

Many local requirements include a outside disconnect, usually for the fire departments convenience.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Re: Should I be scared of this old service wiring ?

[/B]


There is no "7 foot rule" in the NEC as they do not specify a length, a lot of AHJ's have determined that the maximum length is 5 feet though.

Ive always thought it was odd that there is no NEC code for length of unfused SE conductors....

 

[theoldwizard1]

An outside disconnect is not a code requirement, it just makes things much better so far as working on the inside panel.

I have never seen one around here. I am certain that the POCO would not be real happy with cutting the seal and pulling the meter, but I know it has been done,

Interesting that when they installed central air on my house about 20 years ago, they chose to run the cable through the house, instead of along the outside. They had to install 2 disconnects, one going in and one coming back out, even though there are no junction inside of the house.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Re: Should I be scared of this old service wiring ?

[/B]


There is no "7 foot rule" in the NEC as they do not specify a length, a lot of AHJ's have determined that the maximum length is 5 feet though.

True, not in the NEC, but back when I was wiring houses in the 80's the local inspector's and POCO established the 7 ft, rule for us here, a LOT because of the cookie cutter houses just needed the 7 ft. to make it not have to have... a WP disconnect. Today, I don't know what they (local POCO/Inspector) are allowing in the MB to panel box service conductor length distance.... before it needs OCP , but I will be finding out it looks like. . If I need over five feet I will be sure to ask the inspector first, before I shell out coins for a 200 amp Nema 3 OCP disconnect. I might get lucky and they still o.k. 7 ft.

 

[cybrdyke]

No idea what skeered means?

It's short for the more formal a-skeered. As in, "I'm a-skeered of spiders". I hate it when yuns take liberties with the Queen's English.
CD

 

[theoldwizard1]

Haven't heard "yuns" in awhile !

 

[Alchymist]

I see only a rat's nest with several code violations. Were it me, everything out, start over.