Should I fire the contractor before it's too late?

[danski0224]

I'm in agreement with the minutae bit.

The request for stainless fasteners is a bit of a stretch too. SS is weaker than zinc coated steel. Plus the act of sinking the bolt into the metal creates the rot in the wood. I've seen standard zinc bolts used on porches and decks here where it snows on them directly and the wood nor the fastener have failed over 20 or so years out doors.

The pieces of wood in the brackets certainly look like pressure treated lumber. The color of the horizontal 2 x bracing is clearly lighter than the vertical framing members.

The chemical formulation of pressure treated lumber has changed.

The stuff you see today that is "20 years old" is the old formula. It worked fine, but it had arsenic in it. This was thought to be a problem. The old pressure treated stuff did not aggressively attack ferrous hardware or aluminum.

The "new and improved" ACQ stuff is not nice.

It will destroy improper fasteners quickly.

ACQ lumber that gets wet (ie: decks) is worse because the water leaches the chemicals out, and cheaply built decks lacking attention to detail will retain water.

ACQ lumber in this application is still plenty wet off the shelf.

Plain shiny zinc fasteners (bolts, screws, nails and structural brackets) have zero resistance to ACQ lumber.

"Double hot dipped" galvanized is a little better.

Plastic coated is next.

Stainless is best.

Proper fasteners in ACQ lumber has nothing to do with strength, it is chemical resistance.

There is plenty of info about ACQ fastener problems on the web. I would suggest reading up about it before mentioning more anecdotes about "20 year old fasteners that are just fine". That kind of bad information is criminal from someone in a location with numerous multi-story porches and fire exits built out of treated lumber by low bidders. You can't judge the condition of the fastener by looking at the part that remains outside of the wood.

Granted, this is not a deck build and the posts should stay dry.

Given the expense and lack of detail thus far (no J bolts tied to the rebar concrete reinforcement for post bracket attachment in a "$90k" concrete job), the proper stainless steel brackets and hardware should be used.

This isn't a deck with a projected lifespan of ~20 years that can be replaced.

Money should be diverted from the fluff part of the project (interior finishes and fixtures) to ensure that the structure and mechanicals are sound.

 

[ForceFed70]

I'll just mention that the OP has twice stated that the posts are not a treated lumber.

These garages come as a package with the manufacturer supplying these materials. Yes, you can always upgrade to something better but I'm sure he's fine with the hardware that has been provided by the building manufacturer.

 

[porphyre]

This fairly much sums up the incendiary nature of the inter net forum mentality.

This gentleman has become infused with anger over a certain and particular portion of my post response to an OP's situation.

In my post I give an example of a situation.

This poster has decided to only read that portion of my response by which he can ignite a flame and highlight it for a personal attack.

The true post contained the most important and reverent of advice. That advice was to consult with the site professionals who are constructing the item.

However, in his passion for wanting to prove me as a "criminal" for my advice, this poster has chosen to disregard the fact that I have given you the only possible and plausible advice that should be given.

Again:
That advice is, CONSULT WITH THE ENGINEERING FIRM OR DESIGNERS OF THE STRUCTURE.

It is also not mentioned that of course if you are using Stainless fasteners that there are a bunch of different types. And so to just toss out the term stainless is also insufficient and require a spec grade fastener and could also be deemed "Criminal"
And so I still agree with the minutae statement.

Frank - Man up and admit you were wrong. Danski gave a complete and concise explanation of the errors in your statement.

Quoting yourself:

"The second is that most have nigh a clue as to what you are showing but can not refrain from offering a group induced gesture."

 

[porphyre]

Here's another one that wants to get personal.

My comment that mattered was for him to CONSULT HIS ENGINEERS and not this site for his problem solving.

And what is your contribution to this OP's post?

Danski did not address the bolts into the concrete, he simply posted to about stainless fasteners into ACQ treated wood which does not seem to exist in this application.

Any porch or structure that would be built where I live would be designed engineered and inspected, as a matter of fact annually in some cases. The fasteners and their use would be precisely specified.

That should be the case in this situation.

You are just furthering the minutae.

Boy, I really need to stop clicking "View Post" on your stuff.

Look, as Danski clearly said, you posted wrong, dangerously wrong, information. He corrected you. It is the responsibility of those who know to educate those that don't. That's all there is to it.

If talking about PT wood that "does not seem to exist in this application" is minutiae, then you yourself are guilty of "furthering the minutiae" with your 20-year-old fasteners comment.

 

[stevefasano]

removed due to

 

[danski0224]

This fairly much sums up the incendiary nature of the inter net forum mentality.

This gentleman has become infused with anger over a certain and particular portion of my post response to an OP's situation.

In my post I give an example of a situation.

This poster has decided to only read that portion of my response by which he can ignite a flame and highlight it for a personal attack.

You will have to point out my "incendiary comments" "infused with anger"...





Whatever.

 

[tcianci]

Oh! This is great. A lot of ****-slinging going on and I'm not part of it for a change Although it is not often I agree with anyone on here one thing is for sure: Many of us are all too antsy to go off half cocked about technical things that they know absolutely nothing about.

From what I have observed, Garage Journal is a fairly unique place, The comments are usually always civil and thoughtful and sometimes even correct. It is the civility and correctness of the information conveyed here that gives this site its character. As I have asked in other posts: How many of you actually have ANY technical justification for offering an opinion on the weightier matters of construction or the other topics that are regularly discussed here. I would hazard a guess that maybe 15 % of the contributors have a clue, the rest of them just like to see their name up in lights.
Remember it's all fun and games til someone gets hurt.

 

[ForceFed70]

From what I have observed, Garage Journal is a fairly unique place, The comments are usually always civil and thoughtful and sometimes even correct. It is the civility and correctness of the information conveyed here that gives this site its character. As I have asked in other posts: How many of you actually have ANY technical justification for offering an opinion on the weightier matters of construction or the other topics that are regularly discussed here. I would hazard a guess that maybe 15 % of the contributors have a clue, the rest of them just like to see their name up in lights.
Remember it's all fun and games til someone gets hurt.

The problem is that the real professionals don't want to post here. They do this stuff all day, why would they then go online in their spare time to do more?

Individually, you are right. Most of us arn't professionals. But we all have some knowledge and if we pool it together we can usually come up with a correct answer. That is why this board works.

If we waited for only the true experienced professionals to answer, we'd rarely get any answers. Also, construction practices and code vary by location. What works in one part of the country/world doesn't work in another. And let's be honest, even the pro's can be mistaken at times so it's always nice to have a second opinion.

 

[porphyre]

Frank - Sad when a grown man can't admit when he's wrong...

I did not say that Zinc fasteners could be nor should be used on ACQ lumber.

My statement that SS fasteners were over the top was appropriate as "I READ THE MAN"S POST". I read the part about laminated columns.

The posts about SS fasteners were in direct comment on PT lumber.

Your statement:

The request for stainless fasteners is a bit of a stretch too. SS is weaker than zinc coated steel. Plus the act of sinking the bolt into the metal creates the rot in the wood. I've seen standard zinc bolts used on porches and decks here where it snows on them directly and the wood nor the fastener have failed over 20 or so years out doors.

Implies that SS is not needed in deckbuilding. Yes, that statement is dangerous. If someone built a deck with zinc fasteners and today's PT lumber (eg, ACQ), there's a strong chance the deck will fail, due to fastener rot, within the expected lifetime of a properly constructed deck.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I have given the OP my best advice, Get a professional on site opinion. Contact your inspector if all else fails.

I'm sorry that your thread has been compromised by this petty bull ****. I am removing all of my posts that may have contributed to your thread being compromised.

 

[dirttracker18]

Implies that SS is not needed in deckbuilding. Yes, that statement is dangerous. If someone built a deck with zinc fasteners and today's PT lumber (eg, ACQ), there's a strong chance the deck will fail, due to fastener rot, within the expected lifetime of a properly constructed deck.

Not trying to get into the **** show but get some more info.

Zinc is common place in outdoor structures in this area (decks, stairs, etc). No one uses SS that I am aware of. I have not even seen SS fasteners in the bulk bins at the local retailers. (no large assortment anyway)

Is this a serious concern? I just rebuilt my deck last year and purchased all zinc (I am pretty sure anyway, certainly not SS) fasteners on the advise of a local trusted lumber yard.

I am not an expert and am not saying anyone is wrong here. Just looking or some evidence.

Sorry for the highjack but I really think this needs further explanation.

 

[BlindViper]

Not trying to get into the **** show but get some more info.

Zinc is common place in outdoor structures in this area (decks, stairs, etc). No one uses SS that I am aware of. I have not even seen SS fasteners in the bulk bins at the local retailers. (no large assortment anyway)

Is this a serious concern? I just rebuilt my deck last year and purchased all zinc (I am pretty sure anyway, certainly not SS) fasteners on the advise of a local trusted lumber yard.

I am not an expert and am not saying anyone is wrong here. Just looking or some evidence.

Sorry for the highjack but I really think this needs further explanation.

Chances are you bought galvanized bolts or I hope you did. Did they have a shinny finish or a dull grey/silver finish? Most decks and piers use stainless hardware if they are near salt water.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Not trying to get into the **** show but get some more info.

Zinc is common place in outdoor structures in this area (decks, stairs, etc). No one uses SS that I am aware of. I have not even seen SS fasteners in the bulk bins at the local retailers. (no large assortment anyway)

Is this a serious concern? I just rebuilt my deck last year and purchased all zinc (I am pretty sure anyway, certainly not SS) fasteners on the advise of a local trusted lumber yard.

I am not an expert and am not saying anyone is wrong here. Just looking or some evidence.

Sorry for the highjack but I really think this needs further explanation.

If you go to wwwask.com, enter the sub title ACQ fasteners, you will see a bunch of places to look for your fastener types and compatibilty. The question will be, what type of wood do you have and what type of fasteners did you use.

 

[dirttracker18]

Chances are you bought galvanized bolts or I hope you did. Did they have a shinny finish or a dull grey/silver finish? Most decks and piers use stainless hardware if they are near salt water.

Nearest saltwater to me is 1300 miles away

 

[Jaguar Fan]

... As I have asked in other posts: How many of you actually have ANY technical justification for offering an opinion on the weightier matters of construction ... Remember it's all fun and games til someone gets hurt.

^^^ +1 ^^^

In general, manufacturers of construction systems provide a healthy safety margin in their designs because construction in the field is too-often done by un-skilled or less-skilled labor - frequently illegal immigrants who do not read or write in English (sometimes even in their native language). They can't or don't read the plans and just build things the way they always have.

But only their engineers know for sure.

I've learned a couple things on this thread.

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW on the overhead door Q - My 16' x 7' door opening is 16' x 6' 10 3/4" in the rough. It'll be 15' 10 1/2" x 6' 10" with the 1x6 finish trim applied. It's a little short in the vertical because the 2x12 door beam takes up a couple of extra inches.