Should I insulate my attached garage?

[smallpeas]

New to the forums, thanks for having me!


I'll get straight to the point here....

My garage is attached, uninsulated, but already sheetrocked. I have a 16' door and a small (i'm guessing) 36" door as well. There are no windows at all in the garage. I *believe* i'm 25x25 (625 sq ft) but I will double check again this afternoon.

When we moved in I relocated the clothes washing machine and dryer INTO the garage from the kitchen. I did not think about pipes freezing until reading a post about pressure washers freezing in the garage. (I also keep my pressure washer in the garage) I live in Central North Carolina...zone 7. It was in the high teens when I woke up yesterday morning and i"m concerned about my washer line and pressure washer possibly freezing. They have been in there for two winters already with no repercussions but maybe I just got lucky.


Would insulating my garage regulate the temperature enough to keep me above freezing for NC winters?

Is it as simple as laying some insulation down in the attic and cutting holes in the walls of the garage and filling with blow-in insulation?

Would it be better to remove the sheetrock, insulate, and then re-rock...how does it work with the vapor barrier?


Thought I was get a few professional opinions...tia

 

[mygarageone]

Way not blow insulation in the attic too ? And yes insulating the garage is the smart thing if you want it to retain any heat.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

Without a heating source the insulation isn't going to stop freezing temps or frozen pipes. I will open up my equipment and blow out/drain any water to prevent these problems. Those washer lines are a different issue and could prove to be a problem. Some kind of heat source should be considered in the near future. You could pull out the sheetrock for rolls of insulation or get blown-in insulation. The latter may or may not be cost effective but that's what I did in my 60 y.o. home.
My folks have a well pump in the uninsulated garage. A shroud and 100w bulb is placed over that assembly to keep things above 32 degrees.

 

[CNGsaves]

Short answer . . . . YES. But you'll need a gameplan.

I'd make $2 bet that your garage is in dire need of more electrical outlets, in addition to needing insulation and better lighting.

Thus, I'd pursue your project as upgrading electrical, lighting, & insulation at same time.

With your moderate climate, easy solution is drill 1" holes at top of each wall opening between studs and put in blown insulation - - - - of course this is AFTER you have done all updating and improving of electrical.

You might just consider a 240 volt electrical heater hanging near ceiling, since you'll be doing electrical upgrades anyway. If not electric, then a small 30K Btu natural gas hanging garage heater would do the trick.

Blow in loose insulation up in ceiling of garage once all your lighting and electrical improvements are complete.

Let's see pics of what you've got now in terms of garage door (insulated at all??), ceiling height, lighting, electric outlets, electric panel, etc. Good luck.

 

[Alexbn921]

Yes. It will help regulate the temperature of the house. Do the ceiling at a minimum. most heat escapes up, and cold goes down. You do need a game plan and CNGsaves is right on all accounts. Start easy, door, ceiling and then move to the harder stuff. Don't think it all has to be done at one time. I did mine in phases starting with the door. Everything I've done has improved my comfort when working in the garage.

 

[smallpeas]

Short answer . . . . YES. But you'll need a gameplan.

I'd make $2 bet that your garage is in dire need of more electrical outlets, in addition to needing insulation and better lighting.

Thus, I'd pursue your project as upgrading electrical, lighting, & insulation at same time.

With your moderate climate, easy solution is drill 1" holes at top of each wall opening between studs and put in blown insulation - - - - of course this is AFTER you have done all updating and improving of electrical.

You might just consider a 240 volt electrical heater hanging near ceiling, since you'll be doing electrical upgrades anyway. If not electric, then a small 30K Btu natural gas hanging garage heater would do the trick.

Blow in loose insulation up in ceiling of garage once all your lighting and electrical improvements are complete.

Let's see pics of what you've got now in terms of garage door (insulated at all??), ceiling height, lighting, electric outlets, electric panel, etc. Good luck.

Actually, i was given the gift of enough outlets in my garage. In my line of work i do custom installs of certain equipment in customers garages...and one thing I need is access to an outlet.....noooooone has enough outlets in their garage, some garages may only contain 1, or i've even seen none! So i'm good as far as that goes, thankfully.

As far as hanging a heater and running 240....i dont really have that in my budget at the moment, as my panel is on the total opposite end of the old brick ranch i live in. Do you think just insulating will be worth it or is it really pointless to insulate and not heat?

Yes. It will help regulate the temperature of the house. Do the ceiling at a minimum. most heat escapes up, and cold goes down. You do need a game plan and CNGsaves is right on all accounts. Start easy, door, ceiling and then move to the harder stuff. Don't think it all has to be done at one time. I did mine in phases starting with the door. Everything I've done has improved my comfort when working in the garage.

Here are some quick shots of my garage, including the washer and dryer setup that i moved out there, it sits between the outside part of the chimney/fireplace and the door leading inside the house.

A quick measurement gave me around 23'x23' and about 8'10" ceilings.

Here are the pictures...

http://imgur.com/a/cvbbX


I was thinking that maybe even adding some windows to the garage door might let sunshine in and add to the warmth via greenhouse effect...or is that crazy talk?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Without a heating source the insulation isn't going to stop freezing temps or frozen pipes.

Hmm, that's a tough one..

This summer when my HVAC came out to quote me out for a garage heater we talked about that...He recently built a garage similar in size to mine (less sq ft/ but 12' vs 10 ceilings for a net result of virtually same volume and the coldest his garage got last year without any heat at all was 35...that's in Maine. So yes, a well insulated garage can & will protect against freezing...no guarantee but down in NC, I'd say its no problem. All summer my dad was telling me that I'd only need 2 candles (jokingly said) to keep my garage from freezing...Looking like he was right all along.

Last year my garage was not insulated...and it was just as cold inside as outside, now its all sealed up...Insulated/Sheetrocked, etc and I just came back inside from being out there...28 outside, 47 in the garage...tomorrow morning it will still be ~47

 

[smallpeas]

Last year my garage was not insulated...and it was just as cold inside as outside, now its all sealed up...Insulated/Sheetrocked, etc and I just came back inside from being out there...28 outside, 47 in the garage...tomorrow morning it will still be ~47

Are you living in Maine currently?

I bought a thermometer on amazon yesterday....ima stick it out in the garage so i can keep up with the temps

 

[RKA]

Insulating without an additional heat source is usually beneficial. If you park your cars in the garage, that's one source of heat. And one warm wall or living space above can help as well.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Are you living in Maine currently?

I bought a thermometer on amazon yesterday....ima stick it out in the garage so i can keep up with the temps

Yup...Still in Maine.

 

[Rod N]

My last house had 1 1/2 attached garage (and attic) and it was enough to keep it above freezing. I insulated it very well though.
This one looks like it was an addition so I would think not as much of the heat will make it to the garage from the house.

 

[smallpeas]

My last house had 1 1/2 attached garage (and attic) and it was enough to keep it above freezing. I insulated it very well though.
This one looks like it was an addition so I would think not as much of the heat will make it to the garage from the house.

You are correct, the garage was added on in the 80's sometime i believe. I'm having an issue of the garage end of my house being much cooler (in winter) than the other end (bedroom end) There are two doors in the 'kitchen'...one leads to the garage and the other leads off to a screen in porch....the doors are old and solid wood...very leaky....i thought insulating the garage would help keep me above freezing...and possibly help equalizing the heat in the rest of the house.

But....after looking at the price of insulation lol...i may not be insulating the garage this winter after all!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'd insulate the garage, no questions asked. Think of it as a big airlock, not just in the winter but also in the summer.

I had done the wall of the house garage back in '08 (before a grad party for the daughter) and just finally did the ceiling. It is night and day difference and it's just now December.

 

[dave67fd]

Insulate, Insulate, Insulate. Depending on the structure and foundation and being attached it should retain some amount of heat from both your residence and your foundation/slab.

My detached doesn't need AC in the summer as the slab keeps it nice and cool also keeps it easily 15 deg. warmer than the outside ambient during the winter.

Move the washer/dryer elsewhere, you need more room in there anyway, right?

 

[smallpeas]

Move the washer/dryer elsewhere, you need more room in there anyway, right?

lol the next stop for the washer and dryer would be the back shed When we bought the house two years ago, before we even moved in, i demolished a closet in the kitchen which held the washer/dryer...and relocated them in the garage myself I would love more space in my garage, but we need it more in the kitchen


The first place I insulate would be the ceiling....do I use faced/unfaced....if i do use a vapor barrier...does it go to the sheetrock(face towards the ground) or two the roof(towards the sky)?

I might actually be able to insulate the door this winter, depending on cost of materials....any suggestions on doing the door? Do i buy one of those kits the home improvement stores have or just buy some insulation board and stuff it in?

 

[70C-10]

The first place I insulate would be the ceiling....do I use faced/unfaced....if i do use a vapor barrier...does it go to the sheetrock(face towards the ground) or two the roof(towards the sky)?

QUOTE]

Faced insulation on the ceiling would face the floor.

I just read your thread & no one answered your question in post #1

Would it be better to remove the sheetrock, insulate, and then re-rock...how does it work with the vapor barrier?

Remove sheet rock. Insulate. 6 mil plastic vapor barrier. Re-rock.
I'm not an expert but that's what I would do.

 

[luke7734]

Insulation is definetly the key here... first of all.. what were your inside outside readings from you test run? Ceiling is your first heat loss... stop the heat from going through the ceiling.. r30 faced paper DOWN (edit) will be fine.. or non faced and put plastic against the ceiling first (edit) The paper or plastic is just slowing down or stopping the air movement through your fiberglass insulation. That's the main goal of insulating anything... trapping air..

Second. Most home improvement stores have cheap laser temp gauges. I just got one on black friday at menards for $10. Go out in your garage and see what that brick wall behind your house is at temp wise.. if its staying 40+ degs. At 6 am when its 15 outside. Then you are probably good. Considering you plumbing is on that wall.. put your pressure washer in the basement...

If its cold, under 32 degs.. then your gonna need to start a budget for a new washing machine that is lf yours freezes or insulate... ps... I know in Ohio, colder than nc, a vacant house has to sit unheated in 12 deg weather for almost 12 hours before pipes bust.. copper that is.. ive had rental units freeze when thermostat batteries die while tenants were on vaca.. ouch..

 

[Krodad]

Insulation is definetly the key here... first of all.. what were your inside outside readings from you test run? Ceiling is your first heat loss... stop the heat from going through the ceiling.. r30 faced paper up will be fine.. or non faced and put plastic over top. .

No! A vapor barrier/Vapor retarder always, always, always goes on the warm side. It's purpose is to impede vapor drive due to vapor pressure.

Think of it as vapor always wants to travel from warm to cold, and high pressure to low pressure.

 

[luke7734]

No! A vapor barrier/Vapor retarder always, always, always goes on the warm side. It's purpose is to impede vapor drive due to vapor pressure.

Think of it as vapor always wants to travel from warm to cold, and high pressure to low pressure.

brain fart.. I was thinking he was adding to the ceiling pre drywall. Pushing in the insulation and or then adding plastic before drywall added. .. I've read like 3 threads with this similar scenario in the last day.

Anyways. If you're thinking of ever heating this area... look into spray foam. This will make any cost you were considering look like pocket change... but god dang it kicks ***..

 

[smallpeas]

Ok...well its been way below average temps here in NC for a while now....i'm having issues with my clothes washing machine being outside in my uninsulated 600 sq foot garage...the pipes are trying to freeze. I'm using a small 1500w electric space heater and it can barely keep up. I dont have the money to insulate but i dont have the money to fix irreparable water damage either.

I will start with the ceiling the ceiling joists are roughly 24" apart...but they dont seem to be evenly spaced. I figured if i bought 24" wide insulation i could gently tuck it into the smaller 21"-23" spans...instead of buying a smaller (23" or so) and then having a gap where the span is 24"

I'm going to get R-30....but do I need to get faced? Someone in the thread said 'yes, use faced and point it towards the ground'....just wanted to check again on that.



Also, any advice on keeping my washing machine from freezing is greatly appreciated! I cannot afford to run that space heater all night like i did last night! ...but not only that...it barely keeps it warm in the area...i can get the pipes warm, but the washing machine itself seems to have 'locked up'...i'm unable to fill it with water this morning!

 

[smallpeas]

As a custom installer of umnamed garage goodies, you have every opportunity to speak with clients and fellow craftsman in your area.

I'd sure try that.

I just had to read the 2006 codes. How in the hell a contractor can't memorize them on the second reading is beyond me. I didn't care so I skimmed a bit, but I'm pretty sure a washer/dryer in a garage is code violation.

I don't care, I'm not so sure about your insurance caring....

or I'm horribly wrong.

I think you may have posted to the incorrect thread

 

[smallpeas]

Would buying an electric blanket and draping it over the machine keep it warm all night?

 

[70C-10]

I'm going to get R-30....but do I need to get faced? Someone in the thread said 'yes, use faced and point it towards the ground'....just wanted to check again on that.

Moisture barriers are a concern mostly on exterior walls where temperature differences occur. Interior walls generally use unfaced insulation, although unfaced insulation may be used even on exterior walls. A popular alternative to faced insulation for exterior walls is to hang unfaced insulation and cover it with a layer of plastic sheeting, called polyethylene. Incidentally, some builders cover even faced insulation with plastic sheeting for better moisture resistance. The facing, whether plastic sheeting or built-in, always faces the heated portion of the building. When adding insulation to already existing insulation, unfaced insulation is recommended as well.

from here
http://www.ehow.com/info_12137968_difference-between-faced-unfaced-insulation.html

 

[Dirtcrasher]

Yes, insulation helps as well as killing the sound.

I find the biggest issue to be cheaper garage doors!! Unless you buy an extremely expensive garage door or insulate the door you have now, you need some heat.

IDK how many watts my heater is? but I insulated the heck out of it AFTER I ran all wire circuits. cable and telephone and a 1/2" air line to my cellar for inside work.

Mine is just a used heater from a job at Victoria Secrets stock room,sorry, no pictures!! lol.......

Anyway even at 0 outside, it runs 15 minutes and then cycles on and if I leave the garage doors close, the run time shortens. I have 2 very well insulated doors.

 

[mm08822]

As previously posted - a heat source in an insulated garage is what you really need, even if it only kicked on at 40F or below. You could heat trace and insulate the pipes leading to the washer. Have a thermostat set to allow the heat trace to turn on below 40F. However, once you get to the washer you're still at risk b/c the heat tracing outside it won't help in there. The washer still holds water in the tub even after it discharges and the internal supply lines hold some as well. Standing water is always a problem for freeze potential. If these temps are a rare occurance for you, you could run the washer to move some water through it(after heat tracing) - which would be a pain in a$$.

 

[Autorotica]

Ok...well its been way below average temps here in NC for a while now....i'm having issues with my clothes washing machine being outside in my uninsulated 600 sq foot garage...the pipes are trying to freeze. I'm using a small 1500w electric space heater and it can barely keep up. I dont have the money to insulate but i dont have the money to fix irreparable water damage either.

Also, any advice on keeping my washing machine from freezing is greatly appreciated! I cannot afford to run that space heater all night like i did last night! ...but not only that...it barely keeps it warm in the area...i can get the pipes warm, but the washing machine itself seems to have 'locked up'...i'm unable to fill it with water this morning!

If your in a buck tight situation then narrow your focus to the washing machine itself. Install heat tape on the water line feeding it and curl some more under the machine itself. Throw blankets, insulation, cardboard...anything to slow down the rate of heat loss over the top of the washing machine.

Chris

 

[PhTman]

Ok...well its been way below average temps here in NC for a while now....i'm having issues with my clothes washing machine being outside in my uninsulated 600 sq foot garage...the pipes are trying to freeze. I'm using a small 1500w electric space heater and it can barely keep up. I dont have the money to insulate but i dont have the money to fix irreparable water damage either.

I will start with the ceiling the ceiling joists are roughly 24" apart...but they dont seem to be evenly spaced. I figured if i bought 24" wide insulation i could gently tuck it into the smaller 21"-23" spans...instead of buying a smaller (23" or so) and then having a gap where the span is 24"

I'm going to get R-30....but do I need to get faced? Someone in the thread said 'yes, use faced and point it towards the ground'....just wanted to check again on that.



Also, any advice on keeping my washing machine from freezing is greatly appreciated! I cannot afford to run that space heater all night like i did last night! ...but not only that...it barely keeps it warm in the area...i can get the pipes warm, but the washing machine itself seems to have 'locked up'...i'm unable to fill it with water this morning!

I inserted a pneumatic air connection behind a gate valve and check valve into my water lines.

During cold weather I apply 60 PSI air to the domestic water system. Then I'd walk to each outside garden hose and open the spicket until line was flushed. You could do the same with your washing machine.

I have a 6 HP oil-less air compressor. I'm not sure I would do this with a "oil" compressor. Additionally I had replumbed the house with home-runs for every fixture. All the outside faucets runs did not also feed a inside sink.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ok...well its been way below average temps here in NC for a while now....i'm having issues with my clothes washing machine being outside in my uninsulated 600 sq foot garage...the pipes are trying to freeze. I'm using a small 1500w electric space heater and it can barely keep up. I dont have the money to insulate but i dont have the money to fix irreparable water damage either.

I will start with the ceiling the ceiling joists are roughly 24" apart...but they dont seem to be evenly spaced. I figured if i bought 24" wide insulation i could gently tuck it into the smaller 21"-23" spans...instead of buying a smaller (23" or so) and then having a gap where the span is 24"

I'm going to get R-30....but do I need to get faced? Someone in the thread said 'yes, use faced and point it towards the ground'....just wanted to check again on that.



Also, any advice on keeping my washing machine from freezing is greatly appreciated! I cannot afford to run that space heater all night like i did last night! ...but not only that...it barely keeps it warm in the area...i can get the pipes warm, but the washing machine itself seems to have 'locked up'...i'm unable to fill it with water this morning!

Sounds like you're in a little bit of a financial pickle right now and need a solution. I'll offer this ... If you get a tax return and don't have it spent already, you can use that to insulate your garage and the O/H doors. Most of the big box stores offer 6 months interest free for purchases over $300. Figure out what you need, buy it, insulate the garage (doors too) and when you get your refund, pay off the big box card. There's nothing wrong with using other people's money (credit cards) if you use them wisely.

 

[Scott H in Wheaton]

Have you considered blown in fiberglass for the attic space?
Ideally you would do about 18 - 22 inches, but even 8" would help.

If you can't or won't do it, have Home Depot do it for $1000 and put it on a Home Depot card to stretch out the payments. Always less expensive to do it youself though.

Buy 20 bags of Attic Cat for about $160 and they will loan you the machine for free.