Should I wire a welder plug up to handle an EV?

[1/4atatime]

So I've read a few threads on this issue and can't really seem to get a clear understanding of what people have done. So I recently picked up a welder and I'm trying to decide how I should wire the outlet. Part of me is saying just wire it for the 40amp breaker (it's a titanium 170 and pulls 26.5 amps) with a 10/2 wire but part of me says I should just run bigger wire and a full 50amp plug that can double as an EV charger spot. Any thoughts on this? Also another random thing I was wondering is what do people typically run circuit size for a 2 post lift ?

 

[mike93lx]

"just in case" and "future proofing" are very expensive upgrades.

How hard is it to run this circuit? How likely are you to get an EV?

Don't solve for the next guy or resale. Neither really matter

 

[1/4atatime]

"just in case" and "future proofing" are very expensive upgrades.

How hard is it to run this circuit? How likely are you to get an EV?

Don't solve for the next guy or resale. Neither really matter

Well cost wise it's only about $100 more in wire (about a 40ft run) and $20-$25 in a plug so not insanely crazy but definitely some money saved. I would consider an EV in the future but it would probably be atleast 5 years before I shop for another car. Difficulty wise it's easy right now as I have the wall open in the future I would either need to surface mount it or open the wall up. I guess its more so about the convince of doing it now vs re-doing it later.

 

[nadogail]

Adding an additional outlet for the future EV to your Welder Supply circuit should be easy enough. I used #8 wire.

I can’t imagine charging and welding simultaneously.

 

[mike93lx]

Well cost wise it's only about $100 more in wire (about a 40ft run) and $20-$25 in a plug so not insanely crazy but definitely some money saved. I would consider an EV in the future but it would probably be atleast 5 years before I shop for another car. Difficulty wise it's easy right now as I have the wall open in the future I would either need to surface mount it or open the wall up. I guess its more so about the convince of doing it now vs re-doing it later.

Is the receptacle in the right place for an EVSE?

That welder would run fine on 12/2 romex (duty cycle derating makes it completely code compliant).

Personally, if an EV is only a possibility in 5+ years, I'd put the welder circuit in at the location most convenient for welding and solve for an EV down the road. I'd also be hard wiring the EVSE anyway, so sharing a plug wouldn't happen anyways

You also don't need a 50a circuit for an EV in nearly all cases

 

[gtae07]

From my experience, when I built my shop I put a 14-50 outlet and full 6/3 wiring to it for my welder. This turned out to be helpful because for a while I had an old range out there that I used for baking parts after painting and I didn't have to do more rewiring.

When I did that I had enough leftover 6/3 that I put another 14-50 in the garage right next to the breaker panel, thinking my wife might want it for a pottery kiln. She never used it for that.

When I got our first EV I put in a hardwired charger. Eventually I replaced the 14-50 outlet in the garage with an EV rated one (don't use the cheapies from the big box store) and finally used it last week to charge a second car.

We're aiming to sell the house in the next several weeks so I'll be pulling my hardwired charger out but the outlet will stay as a selling point.

I'm generally a "go ahead and put in the capability when it's easy" person, and in this case it might be good if you're aiming to sell or rent out the house in a couple years. But if you plan to stay, I'd figure on later installing a hardwired charger.

I'd still run wires for the full current though; I know you're allowed to derate for welders but it just bugs me to do that.

 

[mm08822]

Receptacles need to be gfci protected.

 

[1/4atatime]

Is the receptacle in the right place for an EVSE?

That welder would run fine on 12/2 romex (duty cycle derating makes it completely code compliant).

Personally, if an EV is only a possibility in 5+ years, I'd put the welder circuit in at the location most convenient for welding and solve for an EV down the road. I'd also be hard wiring the EVSE anyway, so sharing a plug wouldn't happen anyways

You also don't need a 50a circuit for an EV in nearly all cases

Receptacle would be in a good spot for an EV as it would either be right in the middle of the garage at the front between the two doors so theoretically either bay could use it or I would have my welding table off to the left in which case the left bay could be the charge bay. Wire distance and location are about the same if I went for something more for the welder vs the EV

From my experience, when I built my shop I put a 14-50 outlet and full 6/3 wiring to it for my welder. This turned out to be helpful because for a while I had an old range out there that I used for baking parts after painting and I didn't have to do more rewiring.

When I did that I had enough leftover 6/3 that I put another 14-50 in the garage right next to the breaker panel, thinking my wife might want it for a pottery kiln. She never used it for that.

When I got our first EV I put in a hardwired charger. Eventually I replaced the 14-50 outlet in the garage with an EV rated one (don't use the cheapies from the big box store) and finally used it last week to charge a second car.

We're aiming to sell the house in the next several weeks so I'll be pulling my hardwired charger out but the outlet will stay as a selling point.

I'm generally a "go ahead and put in the capability when it's easy" person, and in this case it might be good if you're aiming to sell or rent out the house in a couple years. But if you plan to stay, I'd figure on later installing a hardwired charger.

I'd still run wires for the full current though; I know you're allowed to derate for welders but it just bugs me to do that.

This is kinda my thinking as well i might go with what someone above suggested and do 8/3 as a middle ground. Plenty high rating for my my welder and still a good amps of charging for a future EV.

 

[mike93lx]

Neither a welder nor an EV need 3 conductor wire.

 

[1/4atatime]

Neither a welder nor an EV need 3 conductor wire.

I think some of the EV ones do if your using a plug but I might be wrong

 

[mike93lx]

I think some of the EV ones do if your using a plug but I might be wrong

No, they may have a 14-50 plug but they don't use the neutral

Obviously feel free to run it, though. It will just sit unused

 

[1/4atatime]

No, they may have a 14-50 plug but they don't use the neutral

O ok good info so then I can just use a 2 conductor wire

 

[mm08822]

I think some of the EV ones do if your using a plug but I might be wrong

You must provide the neutral conductor between panel and recept. Plug side only depends on the load's requirements

 

[mm08822]

O ok good info so then I can just use a 2 conductor wire

Not with with a 14-50R on the end of it. It requires a 3 conductor.

 

[mike93lx]

Not with with a 14-50R on the end of it.

You can buy some with a 6-50, or use an adapter.

Or do it the best way and hardwire

I do like the idea of planning ahead, but it often results in wasted spending and compromises. Just my 2 cents

 

[1/4atatime]

You can buy some with a 6-50, or use an adapter.

Or do it the best way and hardwire

I do like the idea of planning ahead, but it often results in wasted spending and compromises. Just my 2 cents

The other part of this cost is that I live in a rural area which means by the 2020 census data my house qualifies for a 30% tax credit for any cost associated with an EV charger installation. So if I make the outlet built around the usage of supporting and running an EV charger off the line and I install the charger before 2032 I can take advantage of writing off some of the cost of the installation.

 

[mike93lx]

The other part of this cost is that I live in a rural area which means by the 2020 census data my house qualifies for a 30% tax credit for any cost associated with an EV charger installation. So if I make the outlet built around the usage of supporting and running an EV charger off the line and I install the charger before 2032 I can take advantage of writing off some of the cost of the installation.

30% of $200ish?

You'd save more than thay by just running the welder circuit

 

[Torque&Recoil]

I have no desire to own an EV, but I can say that I have three different styles/ampacities of 240v outlets in my barn. I just keep adding more. Wire and outlets are fairly cheap (fairly - yeah, I know the big stuff is pricey). If the walls are open now - just do it. Although... personally, I really like surface mount wiring. Very easy to change in the future.

 

[nadogail]

in my opinion, market conditions are more favorable, almost every day, for switching to an EV.

Locally we are reading about refineries being closed without plans for replacement and we are expecting
the already high cost of fuel to escalate. Local news reports envision $8.00 a gallon as the available supply diminishes because of projected refinery closures.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Why don't you install a sub panel. Wire your welder from that. Add the EV charging when you need it.

 

[1/4atatime]

So I think I'm going to go with 8/2 and if I'm reading the NEC 75c temp table right since I'm using THHN wire then it's rated for a 50amp breaker 40amp load which is plenty for electric chargers. Should be a good middle ground for amperage and wiring needs.

 

[mm08822]

So I think I'm going to go with 8/2 and if I'm reading the NEC 75c temp table right since I'm using THHN wire then it's rated for a 50amp breaker 40amp load which is plenty for electric chargers. Should be a good middle ground for amperage and wiring needs.

If it is 8-2 NM-B, then it can only use the 60C ratings. So #8 = 40A, which means only good for 32A charger.

You would need 6-2 = 50A rating, good for 40A charging.

Needs to be gfci protected.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

So I think I'm going to go with 8/2 and if I'm reading the NEC 75c temp table right since I'm using THHN wire then it's rated for a 50amp breaker 40amp load which is plenty for electric chargers. Should be a good middle ground for amperage and wiring needs.

last i checked you needed 6ga if you wanted to put a 50A breaker on it. welder exceptions don't apply to EV "continuous load" applications.

 

[1/4atatime]

If it is 8-2 NM-B, then it can only use the 60C ratings. So #8 = 40A, which means only good for 32A charger.

You would need 6-2 = 50A rating, good for 40A charging.

Needs to be gfci protected.

It's not nm-b it's going to be MC with THHN wire which based on this chart (and I could be understanding something incorrectly) allows for 50A (40A continuous) on #8

but even if not 32a continuous charging should be plenty and I might just do a 40amp breaker to be safe.

 

[mm08822]

MC with 8's will give you 50A to derate from.

 

[1/4atatime]

MC with 8's will give you 50A to derate from.

Awesome should be all good then with how I have it planned out.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

So I think I'm going to go with 8/2 and if I'm reading the NEC 75c temp table right since I'm using THHN wire then it's rated for a 50amp breaker 40amp load which is plenty for electric chargers. Should be a good middle ground for amperage and wiring needs.

It's not nm-b it's going to be MC with THHN wire which based on this chart (and I could be understanding something incorrectly) allows for 50A (40A continuous) on #8

but even if not 32a continuous charging should be plenty and I might just do a 40amp breaker to be safe.

the confusion lies when you list the wire as 8/2 which is typically used to describe NM-b cable since that is how it is listed

 

[1/4atatime]

the confusion lies when you list the wire as 8/2 which is typically used to describe NM-b cable since that is how it is listed

O I see my bad

 

[jblnut]

When it comes to issues of future proofing or doing something now because it’s easier than doing it later I always ask myself “do I need the extra money right now to pay bills” or something along those lines. If I can afford to do it I always do. No one is getting younger and things are not getting less expensive. If you can afford to run a larger circuit to future proof I say go for it. If you can afford to run two circuits, one for the welder and an additional one that can be repurposed as an EV charger, I say do that. If you think you need other things in the wall because it’s open do those as well.

I ran all my conduits underground in my farm shop when it was built. I think there were a total of 56 3/4 - 1” runs and a half dozen 2” runs going places. I didn’t know what I would need in the future and am glad I ran so many extras. I’ve filled a number of them with things I never imagined when I built it 5yrs ago.

 

[sz0k30]

Don't solve for the next guy or resale. Neither really matter

GREAT advice!!!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Why don't you install a sub panel. Wire your welder from that. Add the EV charging when you need it.

A very good thought and the OP might want to check out how much space he has left in his main box for future growth.

 

[finn]

Our house in Tucson was listed as having wiring to support an electric car charger as a sales feature, and that was over five years ago, so I think having the capability will pay off when it comes time to sell.

In my case, I use the circuit for my Tig welder.

I strongly suspect my next car will use the outlet for a charger, though.

 

[1/4atatime]

A very good thought and the OP might want to check out how much space he has left in his main box for future growth.

So this is coming from the sub panel in my garage it's a 90amp service sub panel with 24 slots so plenty of room I don't think I have it half full yet

 

[NUTTSGT]

So this is coming from the sub panel in my garage it's a 90amp service sub panel with 24 slots so plenty of room I don't think I have it half full yet

You already have a sub panel in the garage ? Consider yourself very fortunate.

 

[1/4atatime]

You already have a sub panel in the garage ? Consider yourself very fortunate.

The wiring at my house is way overkill. The previous owners had a 200amp panel installed on a 1400sqft house with everything but the AC and dryer running off gas and they ran a 40amp sub panel to a shed installed on the property. It was a great foundational electrical situation for my new garage so I wanted to make sure I kept the same quality going ended up putting the biggest sub panel box I could find (24 spaces on a 100amp panel) with 2-2-2-4 mhf running to a 90amp breaker in the main house panel.

 

[gte718p]

If you are going to open walls. $100 is pretty trivial to upgrade. To me, it would be worth it not to have to go back and do it again in the future. Even if you don't get an EV who knows, you might end up with a bigger welder.

It may or may not pay for itself, but I agree with others being prewired for an EV is definitely an advantage if you go to sell. It is something people are looking for. It is not cheap to have an electrician come out and most people are not comfortable doing it themselves.

 

[finn]

If you are going to open walls. $100 is pretty trivial to upgrade. To me, it would be worth it not to have to go back and do it again in the future. Even if you don't get an EV who knows, you might end up with a bigger welder.

It may or may not pay for itself, but I agree with others being prewired for an EV is definitely an advantage if you go to sell. It is something people are looking for. It is not cheap to have an electrician come out and most people are not comfortable doing it themselves.

Another way to look at it is that, per my local building inspector, the next revision of the building code will mandate that wiring to support EV chargers be included for all new residential construction.

May as well do it if you’re messing with wiring anyway.

 

[Jwallace1]

the one experience i had was at a friends home, they had an electrician do a panel replacement and run a circuit for an EV charger, tesla in this case, they then installed a wall mount charger and just added a cord to plug it in, since its in a garage the outlet was protected with a GFCI breaker, the tesla charger has built in ground fault protection and will run a self test, when it does that it would constantly trip the GFCI breaker. just something to keep in mind

also on the tesla charger and I'm sure other brands as well you can adjust them for the size circuit they are connected to so they don't necessary need a 50-60 amp circuit unless you want full charging capacity. if you have a 30 amp circuit available you can program it so that it knows in on a 30 amp circuit and it will adjust charging output accordingly. it wont be as fast but its usually not a huge deal if youre just charging overnight anyway.

thanks

 

[madison069]

Since I'm wiring up a new garage and will be putting a welder outlet at the front and rear of the garage, I'm planning to just set it up for future EV charging stations. Who knows what the future holds and when I'm 60+ or I'm dead and gone, I don't want my wife having to deal with it when I could just upgrade it for EV service. This house/garage is supposed to be where we retire and call our home base, so it's worth the cost to me in that sense.

 

[larry4406]

I have always thought that these type of set ups would be smart. Not endorsing a brand.