Should screwdriver sets include a different selection of drivers?

[flippin]

I have been on the hunt for a new set of screwdrivers to add to a mobile box which I am assembling. Subsequently it seems like I have assessed every screwdriver that we would consider worthy as of late. My observations have led me to question the current offerings in a "standard" 7pc set, regardless of the manufacturer. It seems like a standard set may include 2 or 3 Phillips with the rest being slotted drivers of various shapes and sizes. Now I completely understand that a starter set is meant to be exactly that but shouldn't a starter set include the most common drivers for the greatest number of common situations. I just don't see the necessity for the number of slotted screwdrivers anymore. Phillips from my perspective is far more common with Torx slowly gaining speed. And don't get me started on Robertson given my Canadian heritage.

A recent post about the availability of the 7pc Snap-On hard handles got me thinking given that the set includes only a #1 and #2 Phillips with the rest being slotted. Perhaps at one point 2 Phillips and 5 slotted drivers may have represented the most logical selection for a starter set but I think that time has past. Furthermore, it appears that there is a strong reluctance to warranty any slotted driver (Snap-On) for tip damage. Suggesting that the screwdriver was used as a pry-bar or chisel and outside of the intended use. From a purely cost benefit perspective, it might make more sense to purchase our slotted drivers from a high quality producer with a more liberal warranty policy. The precision of a slotted tip never seemed as important as it would in the creation of Phillips, Torx, JIS, Robertson thus further justifying slotted drivers from companies other than Snap-On.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts and if you are in agreement, what drivers would you spec in a starter set to best represent what we may most frequently encounter in modern cars.

Can you tell that it was too cold to go fishing today, I need to get a life. An essay on the driver selection of modern 7pc sets. Good Grief!!!!

 

[mrjaw14]

What I did in my mobile tool bag is a hex bit screwdriver and an assortment of bits. I do carry a small pocket screwdriver for small places. I just didn't have the room for a full set that included everything I wanted to carry. Hex insert bits are a great compromise. Besides, tips have a finite life, and insert bits are cheap, so I do t replace my drivers every time I booger up a tip.

 

[jjjrmx5]

A recent post about the availability of the 7pc Snap-On hard handles got me thinking given that the set includes only a #1 and #2 Phillips with the rest being slotted. Perhaps at one point 2 Phillips and 5 slotted drivers may have represented the most logical selection for a starter set but I think that time has past.

Yes, that set model is based upon a more than 3 or 4 decades old sales model unless you work in heavy industry or are a plant mgr. or mfgr. maintenance.

But----Snap-On is in the business of selling tools.

Give the buyer a taste but not all the needed tools, thus forcing him or her to buy the fill-ins or other sets they need for their work to be done.

It's been going on for decades not unlike when all but high end tools skip sizes in sockets or wrenches and the cost of the fill-ins negates any advantages of buying the set whole missing the pieces.

It's a game.

Unless BOGO or a hot deal, buying the SO sets only get you a tray. The individual pieces price out the same, set or not.

Thier goal is to get you to be a regular, or here on GJ--addicted customer.

They know EXACTLY what they are doing.

 

[scaron]

i dunno, i guess i agree that the average screwdriver set includes a lot of slotted drivers of all sorts of crazy lengths... i would say here in the US probably 99% of what i find is either #1 or #2 phillips with the remainder being maybe like 1/8" or 1/4" slotted. y'all up in canada probably see robertson (tm) drive a lot more than we do down here; in the US it's still considered very much a speciality bit. torx i see sometimes when disassembling electronic equipment but not as often as i used to... a lot of it's just very small phillips drive. so maybe the composition of the average six to eight piece starter set isn't too bad after all, relative to real-world conditions... maybe i'd remove a few of the slotted and replace with phillips to get it to more of a 50/50 ratio but beyond that i think other drives are always going to be a specialty, buy-it-as-you-need-it kind of thing.

 

[zakmartin]

And don't get me started on Robertson given my Canadian heritage.

LOL! I had to comment on this one. The only Canadian tool I own is a Craftsman Robertson #3 driver that I bought at a Sears in Vancouver, BC. It's way beefier than the #1 and #2 Craftsman Robertson drivers I have that are made in Taiwan (if memory serves me correctly). I'm seeing Robertson screws in circuit breakers, which is why I wanted to have a set, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you could get a #3 Robertson at any tool store in Canada, but they're hard as hell to find in the USA. Then I looked it up on Wikipedia and it all made sense.

 

[nanofrog]

I went with Wiha's Drive-Loc in both System 6 & System 4 (run into all kinds of fasteners in electronics, and the set is compact for field work).

Bought the System 6 (VI) Security Torx set, and added other blades from there (mostly security bits). Screwdriver blades have a driver on both ends, so they actually offer quite a bit of value IMHO (~$4 or so per driver end). Nutdrivers, the magnetic bit holder, and the 1/4" socket adapter are single end only (socket adapter would have to be ordered from Europe, as they've stopped offering it here in the US).

Might be worth a look, especially if box space is limited.

 

[rancherbill]

I used to install computers and a bunch of other things. Here is what worked for me.

I had two Phillips, because I used them most of the time. Then I had a PicQuic with all the other tips that I needed. IMHO the PicQUic is the only mulitip driver to buy, because you have to put the bit back to push out the next bit - nothing gets lost unless you are an idiot.

I customized mine with the Torx bits I needed.

 

[nicksnothereman]

I have been on the hunt for a new set of screwdrivers to add to a mobile box which I am assembling. Subsequently it seems like I have assessed every screwdriver that we would consider worthy as of late. My observations have led me to question the current offerings in a "standard" 7pc set, regardless of the manufacturer. It seems like a standard set may include 2 or 3 Phillips with the rest being slotted drivers of various shapes and sizes. Now I completely understand that a starter set is meant to be exactly that but shouldn't a starter set include the most common drivers for the greatest number of common situations. I just don't see the necessity for the number of slotted screwdrivers anymore. Phillips from my perspective is far more common with Torx slowly gaining speed. And don't get me started on Robertson given my Canadian heritage.

A recent post about the availability of the 7pc Snap-On hard handles got me thinking given that the set includes only a #1 and #2 Phillips with the rest being slotted. Perhaps at one point 2 Phillips and 5 slotted drivers may have represented the most logical selection for a starter set but I think that time has past. Furthermore, it appears that there is a strong reluctance to warranty any slotted driver (Snap-On) for tip damage. Suggesting that the screwdriver was used as a pry-bar or chisel and outside of the intended use. From a purely cost benefit perspective, it might make more sense to purchase our slotted drivers from a high quality producer with a more liberal warranty policy. The precision of a slotted tip never seemed as important as it would in the creation of Phillips, Torx, JIS, Robertson thus further justifying slotted drivers from companies other than Snap-On.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts and if you are in agreement, what drivers would you spec in a starter set to best represent what we may most frequently encounter in modern cars.

Can you tell that it was too cold to go fishing today, I need to get a life. An essay on the driver selection of modern 7pc sets. Good Grief!!!!

I have no clue. I consider these set 2 philips 2 slotted and 2 pry bars.

The truth is that it's probably because slotted are cheaper to make. Probably not a whole lot more but enough to impact the bottom line. I don't know why they call them "starter sets" either. You probably won't need more than what you get for 99% of the stuff you do (between philips and slotted). I only have 1 mechanics screwdriver for hose clamps and 2 for other duty (tapping and for brake work). The rest are for woodworking. I don't really recall ever needing any more than that (and a leatherman) for a car as far as screwdrivers go.

 

[The Ratchet Man]

I always thought the 7 and 8 piece sets had 3 screwdrivers with several prybars and chisels thrown in for good measure.

I agree with your point though. My last set I bought was Phillips only because I have a billion flat blades.

 

[cgv69]

I have been on the hunt for a new set of screwdrivers to add to a mobile box which I am assembling. Subsequently it seems like I have assessed every screwdriver that we would consider worthy as of late. My observations have led me to question the current offerings in a "standard" 7pc set, regardless of the manufacturer. It seems like a standard set may include 2 or 3 Phillips with the rest being slotted drivers of various shapes and sizes. Now I completely understand that a starter set is meant to be exactly that but shouldn't a starter set include the most common drivers for the greatest number of common situations. I just don't see the necessity for the number of slotted screwdrivers anymore.

Testify brother!!!

This has been a pet peeve of mine for a while now. Not only do the standard 7 pieces sets no longer make sense IMO but often, may of these lines don't even offer any of the other drivers, (#0, #3, #4 Phillips, etc.) or if they do, they are hard as hell to find. You end up buying a set with a bunch of slotted drivers that you will probably never use and then have to fill in the additional drivers you will actually need. Either that or just piece the whole set together yourself but that will probably end up costing just as much if not more in the end.

I wish these companies would put as much effort into offering drivers and sets that make sense as they do trying to design the perfect handle

 

[Fedwrench]

I always thought the 7 and 8 piece sets had 3 screwdrivers with several prybars and chisels thrown in for good measure.

How true!!!

I've always thought the 4 or 5 piece sets were the most useful. Cornwell's current 5 piece set gives you phillips #1, 2, 3 and two flat tips 3/16, 1/4 which are all pretty useful sizes.

Wiha has a "bitflip" magnetic screwdriver that has a cartridge of bits that flips out from the handle. This is real handy for torx or other applications.

 

[flippin]

I always thought the 7 and 8 piece sets had 3 screwdrivers with several prybars and chisels thrown in for good measure.

I agree with your point though. My last set I bought was Phillips only because I have a billion flat blades.

Now that's funny, but unfortunately so true!!!!

 

[uart]

Do you guys run into many "posidriv" type fasteners? After phillips they seem to be the next most common here. The only fixed screwdrivers I have here are phillips #1 and #2 and posidriv #1 and #2, all of various lengths. (Plus a whole **** load of various slotted sizes of course). Yeah most of my slotted drivers aren't used much these days, though the fairly small ones do still get used a bit.

For everything else I use hex bits. Lately I'm finding that I use my hex bits more often, even for the phillips and posidrive screws for which I have dedicated drivers. Especially if I think there's going to be a lot of torque involved. The tips do wear out, so I'm tending to use the hex bits more often and reserve my dedicated drivers for places where they really are needed (due to access limitations like depth or clearance etc).

Other than phillips and posidriv, the most common ones I require are torqx and also hex key (allen key) bits. Robertson fasteners are extremely uncommon here in Australia. They're actually the one type in my hex bit set that I've literally never used!

 

[aoleg]

Do you guys run into many "posidriv" type fasteners? After phillips they seem to be the next most common here.

+1 in EU. Wood screws are mostly Pozidriv (and mostly in PZ2), while some are Torx. When assembling a wooden bed, I needed 8mm (diameter) wooden screws, and those were only available in Torx (smaller sizes are either Torx or Pozidriv, and sometimes hex). I haven't seen any Philips wood screws for sale over here.

As to screwdriver sets, many of them sold here include PH1, PH2, PZ1, PZ2 and a couple slotted drivers. Sometimes manufacturers will offer a set of PH1 & 2 + slotted and another set of PZ1 & 2 + slotted.

One one occasion I bought a set of VDE screwdrivers that included PH1 & 2, PZ1 & 2, as well as some very convenient PZ/SL and PH/SL drivers for undoing terminal screws (I use those often on my daughter's toys as those mostly come with PH/SL screws that can be improperly removed by either a Philips or a slot driver... rounding the screw pretty soon as those are the cheapest type made of a very soft metal). It's this one here:

 

[Dave455]

Hardly ever use a Phillips!

Mostly work on British or European vehicles which are all Pozidriv!

Only time I see Phillips are on Japanese vehicles, and they are JIS anyway!

The Phillips drivers I got in my Snap On set are probably my least used tools!

 

[flippin]

With reports from our global GJ fraternity it seems that;

Irrespective of which side of the pond you live on or for that matter what corner of the earth (#aussie) slotted drivers are becoming less and less useful.

 

[Wakefield]

Japanese Phillips?
For someone whose vision can't tell the difference between a small Torx and a small Torx Plus?

 

[flippin]

Japanese Phillips?
For someone whose vision can't tell the difference between a small Torx and a small Torx Plus?

JIS stands for Japanese Industrial Standard. At first glance they look like a Phillips, but they are sufficiently different that JIS screwdrivers exist. From my personal experience, unless there is a tremendous amount of corrosion or loctite, the two (JIS & Phillips) are reasonably interchangeable for larger fasteners (>#1). Conversely, the screws found on my smaller freshwater Japanese fishing reels benefit from JIS screwdrivers. There is so little surface area on the small screws that the tighter tolerances of the right screwdriver makes a difference.

 

[bobcatdan]

Generally speaking, the 7 pieces sets pretty much cover most jobs. #3 phillips is fairly rare and #4 hardly exist. I have torx drivers that I bought 15 years ago I hardly ever use.

 

[aoleg]

Used large Torx on a wooden bed. Also use two sizes Torx drivers (and one Philips) when taking apart my Saeco-made espresso machine for cleaning/adjustment. Smaller ones I used for taking apart small electronic devices (had to get a dedicated set of extra-small ones for that).

I also had to get a set of triangle head screwdriver mini-bits to take apart my daughter's toy trains (manufacturers don't want you to go in there, hence the triangle; but in fact these are fairly easy to repair as most often the only problem is hair clogging the small nylon gears). In my experience, tri-wing drivers work equally well on these toys if properly sized triangle tip is not available.

 

[ATC]

Limited phillips drivers in screwdriver sets are a big pet peeve of mine. I hate seeing sets of 7, 9, 13+, with a ratio of 3 flatheads to each phillips.
For me - 95% of what I see in my trucks can be taken care of with a PH2. 2% with PH1, 2% with a flathead, and the other 1% is Torx.

And yes, the door panels on my truck are held on with PH3's, so I need them too!

 

[Harrison2]

With reports from our global GJ fraternity it seems that;

Irrespective of which side of the pond you live on or for that matter what corner of the earth (#aussie) slotted drivers are becoming less and less useful.

they're useful, just not as screwdrivers

pry tools, picks, punches, back scratcher...

 

[uart]

JIS stands for Japanese Industrial Standard. At first glance they look like a Phillips, but they are sufficiently different that JIS screwdrivers exist.

I'm not sure if it's just my imagination, but the PH bits that I've got in recent hex bit sets do look a tiny bit different to my older phillips drivers. I wonder if they're making them for better compatibility with both JIS and phillips? From what I've read, JIS works pretty well on phillips too, but not quite so good the other way around.

This image of JIS drivers sure looks very similar to what is marked PH1 PH2 etc in my recently acquired hex bit sets.
http://rjrcooltools.com/itempics/87701.jpg
Image from: http://rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=138

 

[Craptain]

My regular screwdriver in both carry box and in the shop is Snap On ratchet driver. It comes with the regular selection of bits, but I have added the missing ones that I use, and they all fit in the handle. Admittedly it can be a nuisance when dealing with different fasteners in the middle of a job, but it works well for me 95% of the time.

 

[wmartin]

I went with Wiha's Drive-Loc in both System 6 & System 4 (run into all kinds of fasteners in electronics, and the set is compact for field work).

I like that kind of set. The blades are thinner than a bit holder.

What I use the most is one of these:

Bought when Amazon was just giving this stuff away. Probably 25 bucks or something.

Screwdriver are definitely one of those things I should just sell off. I found myself buying sets everytime they were insanely cheap, and ended up with way too many of the things. I should probably do a show and tell on my jillion little black steel boxes from Europe sometime. All that Wera/Wurth/Felo/etc. stuff is just too appealing to someone with tool OCD...it's probably time to slough off some of it.

 

[nanofrog]

I like that kind of set. The blades are thinner than a bit holder.

Exactly.

They let me get into recessed holes that a magnetic bit holder has no chance of reaching, and unlike the collet holding types (regular system 4), the ball & detent mechanism keeps the blades from sliding back into the handle.

Bought when Amazon was just giving this stuff away. Probably 25 bucks or something.

Wish I'd known about that at the time.

Screwdriver are definitely one of those things I should just sell off.

Well if you want to unload some PB Swiss, I might be able to help out.

 

[uart]

Exactly.

They let me get into recessed holes that a magnetic bit holder has no chance of reaching

Yeah, I agree that they're far superior, the only problem for me is that those long blades usually cost as much as a dedicated driver anyway. That's why I have dedicated drivers of various lengths for all the common stuff and regular "cheepo" hex bits for everything else. When I come across something that can't be accessed with a regular bit holder type then I usually go out and get it in a dedicated driver.

 

[uart]

they're useful, just not as screwdrivers

pry tools, picks, punches, back scratcher...

Let's face it, they're paint tin openers and we couldn't do without them.

I still use slotted drivers in the smaller sizes a lot though. Electrical work like terminal blocks and various other uses in smaller "jeweler" sizes.

 

[machine_punk]

Ummm...what would you ever use as a prybar or chisel, if they didn't include all those straight-blade screwdrivers in the basic screwdriver sets?

AWWW...UART beat me to it.

 

[nanofrog]

Yeah, I agree that they're far superior, the only problem for me is that those long blades usually cost as much as a dedicated driver anyway. That's why I have dedicated drivers of various lengths for all the common stuff and regular "cheepo" hex bits for everything else. When I come across something that can't be accessed with a regular bit holder type then I usually go out and get it in a dedicated driver.

At ~$8 per blade, and the screwdriver blades having 2x profiles, it's not that bad IMHO. Works out to a bit under what a good set goes for (say 6pc set that sells for $30 - $40, = ~$5 - 6.66 per driver).

Doesn't include the handles of course in the case of the Drive-Loc (other than a set), but the more blades you use, the cheaper the handle is basing it on a "per blade" cost (i.e. $20 handle & 40 blades, works out to $0.50 per). You're in it for $4.50 per screwdriver looking at it this way (buying as separates). Even better in a set (i.e. start with a set, then add blades as needed).

And I get the advantages of reduced bench space, and they're better suited to field work, which I have the occasional need (less weight & space).

I took a variation to what you did, which is a few dedicated drivers, such as Phillips #1 & #2, and a couple of others, and use the Drive-Loc blades for everything else instead of the magnetic bits.

Have had too many issues of late not being able to reach the screws with magnetic bit holders due to the intentionally small diameter of the recess hole. Otherwise, I'm a fan of magnetic bit holders used with good quality bits (even bought the magnetic bit holder blade, as well as the 1/4" socket holder <cheaper than nut drivers as I already had the sockets >).

It offered me what I needed at a very good value, and that's all I can ask for.