-B-
Well-known member
It is the law of the land too bad you have not a clue ..... ignorance is not a an valid excuse you still end up in jail with a felony count.
Should Snap On, Mac, Matco, Craftsman Waranty Tools Off eBay?
- Thread starter komobu
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It is the law of the land too bad you have not a clue ..... ignorance is not a an valid excuse you still end up in jail with a felony count.
TangoFoxTrot
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Vote with your dollars on this issue.
If these tool truck companies want to make their warranty valid ONLY for new tools purchased at full price from an authorized dealer, go elsewhere.
Auto technicians that work at a shop probably have no issue with this policy since the tool truck driver will probably warranty anything for them without hassle in order to keep them happy, but non pros will probably get turned down.
I rarely need warranty service, but the few times I've returned a tool at Sears, they happily hand me a new one, no questions asked. That earns them a lot of goodwill in my book. It's also a smart move on their part, honoring their warranty has probably cost them less than 1% of the total tool dollars I've thrown their way. I've also had good warranty service with Proto tools, but it's through the mail.
These tool truck companies are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating future customers. If a company like Sears, which has dramatically smaller profit margins on their tool sales can afford to have a no questions asked warranty policy, why can't companies like Snap-On, Mac, and Matco?
If these tool truck companies want to make their warranty valid ONLY for new tools purchased at full price from an authorized dealer, go elsewhere.
Auto technicians that work at a shop probably have no issue with this policy since the tool truck driver will probably warranty anything for them without hassle in order to keep them happy, but non pros will probably get turned down.
I rarely need warranty service, but the few times I've returned a tool at Sears, they happily hand me a new one, no questions asked. That earns them a lot of goodwill in my book. It's also a smart move on their part, honoring their warranty has probably cost them less than 1% of the total tool dollars I've thrown their way. I've also had good warranty service with Proto tools, but it's through the mail.
These tool truck companies are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating future customers. If a company like Sears, which has dramatically smaller profit margins on their tool sales can afford to have a no questions asked warranty policy, why can't companies like Snap-On, Mac, and Matco?
I collected my Snap-on tools over more than 30 years from a variety of trucks, sometimes from trucks I just happened to pass. I have no idea where most of the receipts are. And I buy tons of used tools these days. If my Snap-on guy refuses to take back a broken (not abused) tool, it will be the end of my purchases from him. I will buy online. I am not a huge customer, but I buy stuff on a regular basis, mostly to complete sets that I want to sell, but plenty of stuff to keep and use as well. But this has not happened yet.
If Snap-on Corporate starts asking for receipts for mail-in returns, I will have to rethink the $40k plus in S-O tools I own. They will destroy the secondary market for their product. Surely they must realize that a strong secondary market adds to the value at the primary point of purchase?
To me, a hand tool that can not be conveniently and easily replaced (FOR FREE) if it fails is worthless.
If Snap-on Corporate starts asking for receipts for mail-in returns, I will have to rethink the $40k plus in S-O tools I own. They will destroy the secondary market for their product. Surely they must realize that a strong secondary market adds to the value at the primary point of purchase?
To me, a hand tool that can not be conveniently and easily replaced (FOR FREE) if it fails is worthless.
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T56 Impala
Well-known member
No, the warranty is intended for the original purchaser of the tool. The seller, in most cases, is not an authorized retailer an therefore can not offer any kind of warranty.
Turning in eBay tools for new ones is nothing more than stealing IN MY OPINION. This includes tools that were good when you bought them then subsequently broke under use. They have no warranty. I have not and will not do it. It is a moral issue. What do YOU consider theft? You can twist the words of the warranty to make them say whatever you want to hear. The real question is, how do you feel about it down deep?
Turning in eBay tools for new ones is nothing more than stealing IN MY OPINION. This includes tools that were good when you bought them then subsequently broke under use. They have no warranty. I have not and will not do it. It is a moral issue. What do YOU consider theft? You can twist the words of the warranty to make them say whatever you want to hear. The real question is, how do you feel about it down deep?
Merkava_4
Banned
I feel guilty as hell about the whole thing. I think I'll turn myself in to the local Police Department and start serving my time.
localandbitter
Member
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(I am not a lawyer, more importantly I am not your lawyer)
Generally, warranties and guarantees are bound to the product. It is generally perceived as a manufacturer's assertion to the quality of their product. For non-lifetime warranties, it generally does not matter who purchased the product, but when it was purchased.
There is no fraud when someone attempts to warranty a product that has no terms binding the warranty rights to the original purchaser because those terms were never established to the original purchaser/reseller and the new owner. However, there can be fraud when the manufacturer attempts to renege on its original terms if the original terms were material (important) to the original purchaser (i.e. if the warranty wasn't bound to the product or transferrable to other owners, would they still choose to purchase it? when the answer is no, the manufacturer/distributor's sale is fraudulent).
That's closer to the law of the land...
localandbitter
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Indeed. I am not in a position to purchase or need Snap-on tools, but here's my anecdote. I once bought a set of Great Neck tools -- far from Snap-On, I know -- seeing that they offered a lifetime warranty. I have later found out that they will only warranty their products when the original purchase receipt is included. Because of this, I will never buy another of their products and will generally stick with Sears' Craftsman hand tools when it comes to lifetime warrantied tools.
This is a great way for a manufacturer to lose potential customers.
I find this thread pretty amusing on this whole warrenty issue.
The funny part is that alot are saying that if So will not warrenty it they would never buy from them.
The best part is that. I am willing to bet the largest percentage that are crying wolf about the whole issue probably have never stepped foot on a truck to actually make a purchase. Accept to have their internet tool warrentied.
This is just my opinion and we all have them.
The funny part is that alot are saying that if So will not warrenty it they would never buy from them.
The best part is that. I am willing to bet the largest percentage that are crying wolf about the whole issue probably have never stepped foot on a truck to actually make a purchase. Accept to have their internet tool warrentied.
This is just my opinion and we all have them.
wantedabiggergarage
Member Emeritus
Great Neck was mentioned, and it made me think of something (sorry if this is a thread jack).
Duralast tools (bought 1 screwdriver) have a "lifetime" warranty, of which the receipt says lifetime is 75 years.
I think that could be the next step, if this fails............
Because how many receipts are printed with thermal products that fade in time? Lowe's has some "lifetime" warranty tools (Taskforce, ultra cheapies), that I once looked at, for trunk tools (seen too much stuff stolen out of vehicles). I asked Lowe's how would I get a receipt that wasn't on thermal paper, or how would it be handled if the receipt was so faded, it was no longer readable. All I received was this look..............
Duralast tools (bought 1 screwdriver) have a "lifetime" warranty, of which the receipt says lifetime is 75 years.
I think that could be the next step, if this fails............
Because how many receipts are printed with thermal products that fade in time? Lowe's has some "lifetime" warranty tools (Taskforce, ultra cheapies), that I once looked at, for trunk tools (seen too much stuff stolen out of vehicles). I asked Lowe's how would I get a receipt that wasn't on thermal paper, or how would it be handled if the receipt was so faded, it was no longer readable. All I received was this look..............
TRTOOLSUPPLY
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Wright Tool Lifetime Warranty
Since 1927,the Wright Tool Company has manufactured top quality hand tools.The use of WrightAlloy steel,precision heat treating,and advanced manufacturing techniques results in products of long life,durability and toughness.Therefore,for as long as you own it,any product manufactured by Wright Tool which fails to render service due to defect in workmanship or materials will be replaced at no charge.This warranty does not apply to any defects or problems caused in whole or part by misuse,abuse,alteration,or worn out from use.Wright Tool makes no other warranties,express or implied,with respect to the tools or their suitability for specific applications.Replacement is the exclusive remedy,and Wright tool neither assumes,nor authorizes any person to assume for it,any other warranty,or obligation express or implied.
Does this mean I should or should not warranty "any & every"Wright Tool"?
Since 1927,the Wright Tool Company has manufactured top quality hand tools.The use of WrightAlloy steel,precision heat treating,and advanced manufacturing techniques results in products of long life,durability and toughness.Therefore,for as long as you own it,any product manufactured by Wright Tool which fails to render service due to defect in workmanship or materials will be replaced at no charge.This warranty does not apply to any defects or problems caused in whole or part by misuse,abuse,alteration,or worn out from use.Wright Tool makes no other warranties,express or implied,with respect to the tools or their suitability for specific applications.Replacement is the exclusive remedy,and Wright tool neither assumes,nor authorizes any person to assume for it,any other warranty,or obligation express or implied.
Does this mean I should or should not warranty "any & every"Wright Tool"?
wantedabiggergarage
Member Emeritus
This is why I said the all warranties, are not warranties. MOST defects, are going to be found and swapped pretty quickly.
The above, does NOT say, the original purchaser. But it does say no, to abuse/modification, (heating up and bending a wrench to fit a tight spot), or due to wearing out (what I have problems explaining to guys who are trying to use the 50 year old, shop Snap-on stuff, that they think should be replaced).
That said, you sell to a different crowd. If you had a customer, that spent 30K with you, you might decide to replace a wore out Wright tool OUT OF CUSTOMER goodwill. (knowing it helps future business)
lbgradwell
Well-known member
I am on the Snap On truck every Wednesday. I buy pretty much small stuff and pay cash/charge. I will not carry a balance. Most expensive stuff I dont buy off the truck. I make just under 500 a week and I am not gonna pay 50 a week to the truck when I can get much better deals buying used or through school. A fluke 88v multimeter was 530 on the truck. I bought it new online through a tool supply for 310. I dont need credit that bad that I have to pay weekly and almost double.
I fully understand the Trucks position. I would hate to have a bunch of money ******* in inventory and guys trying to warrant stuff bought off eBay. I think Snap On, Mac and others should relook their business model as it is becoming outdated. 20 years ago, the only quality specialty tools you could get were from the truck. It is not that way anymore. Another huge problem are the guys that run up a huge balance, and then quit or get fired. Then the Truck has to figure where the tools are or how he is gonna get paid.
I think the prices should come down by corporate. I would also like to have Snap On stores where I could swap out my own stuff instead of waiting a week for the truck to show up. I also think that the truck should be paid by corporate for every broken tool that is warranted. When a customer purchases something with a 50 cent coupon, the Mfr gives the grocer about 70 cents...20 cents for the shipping and processing. I think it should be the same for the trucks. Maybe a dollar for a socket or something so that it covers postage of returning the defective item to corporate, and covers the cost of maintaining an inventory.
It will be interesting what happens with the trucks over the next few years. I know MAC cant get drivers anywhere and are even paying bonuses to people that influence others to join. It seems like all the drivers are going out of business. The only profitable routes I know of are the guys that have had them for twenty or more years with established customers that are not all that familiar with the internet. Kids coming into the field today will shop the internet and usually get something shipped by UPS much faster than a week.
I fully understand the Trucks position. I would hate to have a bunch of money ******* in inventory and guys trying to warrant stuff bought off eBay. I think Snap On, Mac and others should relook their business model as it is becoming outdated. 20 years ago, the only quality specialty tools you could get were from the truck. It is not that way anymore. Another huge problem are the guys that run up a huge balance, and then quit or get fired. Then the Truck has to figure where the tools are or how he is gonna get paid.
I think the prices should come down by corporate. I would also like to have Snap On stores where I could swap out my own stuff instead of waiting a week for the truck to show up. I also think that the truck should be paid by corporate for every broken tool that is warranted. When a customer purchases something with a 50 cent coupon, the Mfr gives the grocer about 70 cents...20 cents for the shipping and processing. I think it should be the same for the trucks. Maybe a dollar for a socket or something so that it covers postage of returning the defective item to corporate, and covers the cost of maintaining an inventory.
It will be interesting what happens with the trucks over the next few years. I know MAC cant get drivers anywhere and are even paying bonuses to people that influence others to join. It seems like all the drivers are going out of business. The only profitable routes I know of are the guys that have had them for twenty or more years with established customers that are not all that familiar with the internet. Kids coming into the field today will shop the internet and usually get something shipped by UPS much faster than a week.
lbgradwell
Well-known member
It means you should warranty every Wright tool where the defects or problems are NOT caused by (any) misuse, abuse or alteration. Likewise, you are not obliged to replace a tool "worn out from use".
localandbitter
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Here's a link to Snap-on's Terms and Conditions of sale with regard to their product warranty:
http://www1.snapon.com/display/termsofsale.nws
http://www1.snapon.com/display/termsofsale.nws
TRTOOLSUPPLY
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The reason I posted that warranty statement was that ,I have been told by Wright Tool to stand behind their warranty.With all this discussion it just got me to think about it a little more!
Two weeks ago I replaced (Wright replaced) an adjustable wrench for a local mechanic.....and I was not the original seller of the wrench,I took it and called Wright and they said of course we will replace it.
Two weeks ago I replaced (Wright replaced) an adjustable wrench for a local mechanic.....and I was not the original seller of the wrench,I took it and called Wright and they said of course we will replace it.
nate379
Banned
Whatever pills your on, I'll take 3 please! Thanks for the laugh though. Right now II'm about ready to stab a few people and burn this building down.
I can see it now..
"What are you in for"
"Oh... I tried to warranty a Snap On wrench I bought from a friend"
Mwhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah..
I can see it now..
"What are you in for"
"Oh... I tried to warranty a Snap On wrench I bought from a friend"
Mwhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah..
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lbgradwell
Well-known member
Cudos to Wright Tool for doing the Right Thing.
(They can use that if they want!
)volvo420coupe
Well-known member
I think everyone is blowing this all out of proportion, all the big manufactures will always give themselves an "out" in the wording of their warranty. This does not mean that every snap on dealer will make that his personal policy.
I would not hold my breath on anyone being denied a snap on warranty because they had no receipt.
I know eventually someone will be denied a warranty, and the person denying the warranty may use that reason, but the REAL reason will most likely be that the person with the broken tool is being a ****.
I would not hold my breath on anyone being denied a snap on warranty because they had no receipt.
I know eventually someone will be denied a warranty, and the person denying the warranty may use that reason, but the REAL reason will most likely be that the person with the broken tool is being a ****.
That is the way it works at Sears, you can learn to like Cman tools, even if they are the "primered Nova" of tools.
The biggest reason dealers don't warranty non-customers tools, has to do with their personal inventory. If I were a dealer, and the tools were ebay type tools, I would get them a replacement wrench, but not take it out of my inventory. They could wait until the replacement came in, or mail it to the manufacturer. I might warranty a tool once, but not if they NEVER, bought anything from me.
volvo420coupe
Well-known member
With regards to the manufactures, the warranty policy SHOULD be like a murder trial, innocent until proven guilty. If they want to not warranty a tool that was sold (who cares to whom) with a lifetime warranty, let them PROVE your not the original purchaser.
Also, I doubt snap on had problems with inherited/second hand tools before the internet age, but NOW there is a problem. It is still the same people making private transactions with each other, it just happens a lot more.
To obey the letter of the law would mean: two techs could not trade tools, tools could not be gifts to anyone, you could not inherit tools from dad or grandpa, you could not find a tool, and of course you couldn't buy secondhand.
If snap on wants to get really serious about this our ssn should be laser engraved in all tools we purchase from them to eliminate all "fraud". I want this to happen because if it does then prices should drop proportionately to the loss they are experiencing from this "problem". Any guesses as to how much it would be?
Also, I doubt snap on had problems with inherited/second hand tools before the internet age, but NOW there is a problem. It is still the same people making private transactions with each other, it just happens a lot more.
To obey the letter of the law would mean: two techs could not trade tools, tools could not be gifts to anyone, you could not inherit tools from dad or grandpa, you could not find a tool, and of course you couldn't buy secondhand.
If snap on wants to get really serious about this our ssn should be laser engraved in all tools we purchase from them to eliminate all "fraud". I want this to happen because if it does then prices should drop proportionately to the loss they are experiencing from this "problem". Any guesses as to how much it would be?
Let's say for a minute that there was no ebay, no internet. If a tech died, retired or got promoted to service writer, his tools would certainly make it into other hands. Obviously through other channels, whether a flea market or yard sale, a direct sale to another tech, or whatever. NO ONE would just throw out high quality tools. So I really don't see how eBay is the cause of problems for the dealers. Used Snap-on tools do not die or get burried when their original purchaser no longer has a need, they move to other hands. The method with which they move to other hands has absolutely no effect on a truck dealer's profits. If there are used Pro tools floating around, some dealer sold them new, (and made his cut), at some point to some tech....with one exception.
The ONLY exception, and the tool sales that the dealers should be pissed off at, are the ones where NO dealer made money. And guess where those sales come from? The corporate web sites of Snap-on, MAC, Matco etc. This whole thing "warrantee only to original purchaser" is a ruse to appease the dealers and deflect attention from the real source of the problem. Snap-on and the others are the ones cutting their own dealers' throats....not eBay.
What eBay IS doing though, is opening the market to non professional consumers. When a hobbyist can get nice used Snap-on stuff for prices competitive with new Craftsman, perhaps with even more convenience, why not? Perhaps some of these hobbyists will actually seek out the tool truck to buy stuff, too, (once they get properly hooked.) And since these hobbyists generally use their tools much less than pros, they will break less....so less need for returns. So where is the problem???? In addition, these hobbyists are taking used pro tools off the market, meaning fewer used tools left for pro techs to buy....forcing the pros to buy more new stuff.
The ONLY exception, and the tool sales that the dealers should be pissed off at, are the ones where NO dealer made money. And guess where those sales come from? The corporate web sites of Snap-on, MAC, Matco etc. This whole thing "warrantee only to original purchaser" is a ruse to appease the dealers and deflect attention from the real source of the problem. Snap-on and the others are the ones cutting their own dealers' throats....not eBay.
What eBay IS doing though, is opening the market to non professional consumers. When a hobbyist can get nice used Snap-on stuff for prices competitive with new Craftsman, perhaps with even more convenience, why not? Perhaps some of these hobbyists will actually seek out the tool truck to buy stuff, too, (once they get properly hooked.) And since these hobbyists generally use their tools much less than pros, they will break less....so less need for returns. So where is the problem???? In addition, these hobbyists are taking used pro tools off the market, meaning fewer used tools left for pro techs to buy....forcing the pros to buy more new stuff.
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Vinko
Well-known member
I almost never have had need for a warranty unless I'm not using the right tool for the job (S-O sockets off the truck in used an industrial setting is an example), but I'd be happy if there was a general policy of no warranty for ebay stuff. It would make the second hand market that much cheaper for me. 
And my guy would still warranty the stuff.
And my guy would still warranty the stuff.I think thats the key, buy stuff and you'll get warranty on EBay stuff
lbgradwell
Well-known member
Merkava_4
Banned
I managed to get two wrenches replaced from one of the distributors before he put the brakes on me. I should consider myself fortunate given the type of people who are SO distributors.
It says for as long as you own the product! Implying if you sell it, your warranty ends. It gives them a way out if necessary.
Remember most of these warranty statements were made long before ebay and other sites were created. The influx of broken old tools must be huge for these companies.
What kills me here is people buy expensive cars, and the warranty ends at 3 yrs. 36K miles for many bumper to bumper warranties, and you have to pay to fix it very early.
People buy cheap used tools and ***** if they cannot get a brand new one for different reasons. Come on it's a tool, if you wanted a perfect one, buy a new one in person. If you buy discount second hands, expect a few defects here and there. You get what you pay for. That being said..I don't buy much for truck brand hand tools these days, They are not the best deal for basic tools. I have plenty of high tech stuff to buy. When 4K scanners burn out after 3 years there is no warranty
I'll call the whambulance for some of you guys WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
People buy cheap used tools and ***** if they cannot get a brand new one for different reasons. Come on it's a tool, if you wanted a perfect one, buy a new one in person. If you buy discount second hands, expect a few defects here and there. You get what you pay for. That being said..I don't buy much for truck brand hand tools these days, They are not the best deal for basic tools. I have plenty of high tech stuff to buy. When 4K scanners burn out after 3 years there is no warranty
I'll call the whambulance for some of you guys WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed! Well said!
I have purchased many items on the Snap-On truck because I started with some 2nd hand tools on ebay and liked the quality and feel of the tools. Would I have done this without the purchase of 2nd hand tools first? NO The tools caused me to seek out my dealer, meet him and buy tools. Do I buy everythign on the truck now? Heck no! But I do buy some tools with him because so far he has been really nice and treats me with respect even though I don't work on cars / trucks for a living.
Personally, I think if it is a manufacturing defect -or- broken while under 'normal' use it needs to be warrantied. Abused and worn out tools should not apply.
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