Should this ground wire be hooked up?

[Tfue]

I'm helping my father in law add some outside plugs on his house. He has 200amp overhead service. He has a meter base and a separate 200 amp disconnect on the outside of the house. When we popped the cover off the breaker box I noticed he has 4 wire cable running from the disconnect to the breaker box. The ground is just hanging loose inside the breaker box. Is this supposed to be a 3 wire run? Or with the external disconnect is this considered a sub panel now requiring 4 wire?

 

[Tfue]

Sorry the pic is sideways. I don't know why that happens from my phone.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The four wire run was correct, as the outside disconnect becomes your main, and the panel inside is technically a sub panel. Someone didn't know what they were doing. All of the neutrals belong on one bar, all of the grounds on another, the two bars are most likely strapped together somewhere, probably at the bottom, and this connecting strap should be removed. The ground bar should have a green screw run thru it to the back wall of the panel or have a short ground strap from it to the back wall of the panel. The neutral needs to be electrically isolated from the metal housing of the panel.

The bar on the bottom is the ground, it has the smaller lug, where that bare ground should be connected. Separate the bars electrically and make sure the neutral is isolated and the ground is bonded to the can. Any neutrals on the ground bar need to be re-routed to the proper neutral bar (wirenut and more wire works if needed), and same for grounds on the neutral bar, extend or re-route them to the ground bar.

 

[Tfue]

That is what I suspected. Thank you for confirming that. So just for my own knowledge when is a three wire run allowed to a breaker box? Is that only allowed when there is nothing between the meter base and breaker box?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That is what I suspected. Thank you for confirming that. So just for my own knowledge when is a three wire run allowed to a breaker box? Is that only allowed when there is nothing between the meter base and breaker box?

Yes. If it was meter straight to the breaker panel then the breaker panel would be considered the main service panel.

3-wire feeds use to be allowed after a fisconnect use to be allowed...

When was this wiring done?

 

[Speedy Petey]

If that wire exists, and there is an outside disconnect, it MUST be used.
Just the fact that the wire is there negates the old "3-wire feeder" exception due to the "no other metallic paths" rule.

 

[Stuff]

Also check the outside disconnect. It may not be connected on that end either.

 

[Tfue]

It is not hooked up at the disconnect. Good idea to look for that as well. My father in law had the house wired around 5-6 years ago.

 

[DonPowers]

Here is a segment of the NEC regarding Grounding and Bonding. Not sure if it covers your arrangement though.

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questi...grounds-and-neutrals-on-bars-in-a-breaker-box

 

[Tfue]

Well it looks like we have more work to do. We didn't have time to crawl around the attic today. But somewhere there is a junction. There is 3 wire AL URD wire leaving the disconnect and 4 wire SER cable entering the breaker box. I'm not sure how this transition is done yet. Also there is not a single GFCI in the house. He was told the kitchen and bathroom were fed from GFCI breakers. But upon opening the panel there are none to be found.

 

[Slowgsr]

Well it looks like we have more work to do. We didn't have time to crawl around the attic today. But somewhere there is a junction. There is 3 wire AL URD wire leaving the disconnect and 4 wire SER cable entering the breaker box. I'm not sure how this transition is done yet. Also there is not a single GCFI in the house. He was told the kitchen and bathroom were fed from GCFI breakers. But upon opening the panel there are none to be found.

No GFCI - sounds like my house.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

That is what I suspected. Thank you for confirming that. So just for my own knowledge when is a three wire run allowed to a breaker box? Is that only allowed when there is nothing between the meter base and breaker box?

That is correct, even by current code.

Need to replace with one continuous wire for safety and function. URD is not allowed inside buildings, it is Underground Residential Distrubution wire, and the insulation is not flame resistant.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Need to replace with one continuous wire for safety and function. URD is not allowed inside buildings, it is Underground Residential Distrubution wire, and the insulation is not flame resistant.

What does the bold part mean??

And the URD does not seem to enter the building, just the outside disconnect. Then SER into the panel.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What does the bold part mean??

And the URD does not seem to enter the building, just the outside disconnect. Then SER into the panel.

not sure we can come to that conclusion since we dont know where the splice/junction is...