Show us your handplanes

[txlonghorn1989]

Longhorn, I just responded to this on the 2020 Garage Sale Thread, but I'll repeat it here for the Hand Plane fans:

It's not a rust colored primer. It looks like what you have there is an early "Cordovan" era plane--1968-1981. I say "early" because yours still has the Y or Wishbone frog base, which appeared in the Type 19 from 1948-1961.
Here is the link to the Type Study on Time Tested Tools. ...

I recommend looking over the details of the Type 19 and 20 just to be sure, but there's no getting away from the color. I'm 99-44/100 percent sure it's the Type 21. BTW, the Type 20s were Blue.

Still a good find for $10

And I just commented on the GS thread to you which I'll crosspost here for the handplane fans too. :0)

OR, Thanks for that info! I had no idea this was the last type made in the USA. You're right that it's got both type 20 and type 21 features. Like a type 20 the body has a) plane size cast on the toe in front of the knob, b) Bailey cast on the toe behind the knob, c) Made in USA cast behind the frog, d) the ogee shaped frog but it doesn't have the frog adjustment screw. I just find that interesting and wonder how that happened. Type 20 has the frog adjustment screw. Did they start out early making the ogee shaped frogs with no adj screw but then decided to change the ogee shaped frog later during the type 21 era? And you say it has the Y or Wishbone frog base of a type 19 but again without the frog adj screw! When did that occur that they made this somewhat distinct frog and body? Weird! But makes it way more interesting to me now knowing all this.

 

[kenc184]

D.R. Barton Skew Rebate Plane​

One last plane for 2019​

The spurs on the extra iron are for scoring the edges of the rebate to prevent chipping.

That's a Dado plane, rather than a rabbet (rebate) plane CRS, nice one too. They work really well, I'm becoming quite keen on wooden planes thesedays even though I have a lot of steel ones.

 

[Old Radar]

And I just commented on the GS thread to you which I'll crosspost here for the handplane fans too. :0)

OR, Thanks for that info! I had no idea this was the last type made in the USA. You're right that it's got both type 20 and type 21 features. Like a type 20 the body has a) plane size cast on the toe in front of the knob, b) Bailey cast on the toe behind the knob, c) Made in USA cast behind the frog, d) the ogee shaped frog but it doesn't have the frog adjustment screw. I just find that interesting and wonder how that happened. Type 20 has the frog adjustment screw. Did they start out early making the ogee shaped frogs with no adj screw but then decided to change the ogee shaped frog later during the type 21 era? And you say it has the Y or Wishbone frog base of a type 19 but again without the frog adj screw! When did that occur that they made this somewhat distinct frog and body? Weird! But makes it way more interesting to me now knowing all this.

Crossposted again:

Most tool manufacturers used up old stocks of usable parts immediately following a design change. It's an easy way to see if you might have a tool made within the first few weeks/months after the change. The more carry-overs, the earlier it was probably made.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Crossposted again:

Most tool manufacturers used up old stocks of usable parts immediately following a design change. It's an easy way to see if you might have a tool made within the first few weeks/months after the change. The more carry-overs, the earlier it was probably made.

OR, I see what you're saying in that the more features it has from type 19 and type 20 planes the likely earlier it was during that type 21 period. Thanks!

 

[CRSINMICH]

That's a Dado plane, rather than a rabbet (rebate) plane CRS, nice one too. They work really well, I'm becoming quite keen on wooden planes thesedays even though I have a lot of steel ones.

That's what I thought when I saw the two spurs but what looks like a fixed fence threw me. I guess it would have to be used with a batten of some sort. The hole on the right side is for a thumbscrew for the depth stop. Mr. Mason had good taste in tools.

 

[CRSINMICH]

A TENNN SHUN!!!​

Your commie prevert professors back in vocational school likely told you that there are a range of methods for tool maintenance. WRONG!! The War Department made this manual available so that you will know THE right way to do things. Read it, follow it - and dress up those bevels Mister!

This manual came from a flea market in Massachusetts. It's kind of a hoot but there is some information that might be of interest. The content section is included in case anyone would like a scan of one of the other chapters. The chapter on planes has other sections titled Procedure for Sharpening, Regrinding Chip Cap, Setting the Iron, Adjusting Frog, Common Misuses to Avoid, Lubrication, and Storage.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Oh man, that's awesome CRS! Is that yours? That's some good stuff. How about sharing the rest of the section on planes? Does the section on chisels offer the same advice?

 

[CRSINMICH]

tx: Yes, I did buy it and, at only $3 apiece, I'm wondering why I didn't buy some of the other manuals in the series too.
The chapter on chisels is fairly good but it's not as detailed. Also the chapter on saws and the one on bits might be of interest to woodworkers. I'll scan those chapters as soon as I have time. Meanwhile, here's the rest of the chapter on planes.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

That is really cool. I can see why you're asking yourself about not buying the others that were available! If you're up to it you might post the chapter on 'Vises' in one of the vises threads. I know I'd like to see it too and I'm sure the vise-aholics would also. Thanks for sharing. Look forward to seeing more.

 

[Old Radar]

Wow! With Roman Numeral chapter numbers, no less! I want one! You should really upload that to archive.org!

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Wow! With Roman Numeral chapter numbers, no less! I want one! You should really upload that to archive.org!

Date on the cover is April 1945 so that's right before V-E Day (Victory in Europe). Very friggin' cool!

 

[CRSINMICH]

Old Radar: After you mentioned it, I went to archive.org and searched for 'War Department Technical Manual' and it was already there along with lots of other War Department manuals including one for Harley Davidsons for some reason. It's so easy load the images that I did Chapter VIII - Chisels while I was having breakfast. Here are the pages that are about woodworking chisels.

tx: The vise chapter boils down to three things: 1) Don't pound on it. 2) Don't use a cheater bar. 3) Keep it oiled. I have a vise pamphlet put out by Chas. Parker which says the same things.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

If you go to woodworking forums, you'll find threads that are as long as this one on sharpening alone. Which makes sense in a way, the quality of the tool is how sharp you can get it.

I wish I knew how to post photos, I have Millers Fall 5 1/2, Stanley #, with the most beautiful wood on it.

 

[Old Radar]

This post will give you a couple of methods to post photos:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162883

 

[CRSINMICH]

I think I posted this Stanley #27 transitional plane on this thread some time ago. Transitionals don't get much respect. I wanted to see for myself how well they worked. Luckily, they are usually cheap since nobody wants them. I flattened the back of the cutting iron then put a sharp edge on it. It takes very fine shavings and leaves a very smooth surface on the wood. I did have to fiddle with the frog a bit but that's standard procedure. Flattening the sole was quick since only the toe end needed it.

TIP: I lapped the back of the iron using a series of diamond plates. The welder's magnet was a big help. It provides a good handle and helps keep the iron flat against the plate.

 

[Rileysan]

I purchased this at a swap meet this past weekend for $10. I don't collect planes but I do collect Craftsman. When BMWRD0 pointed it out to me, I couldn't get my wallet out fast enough.

The logo on the handle is just a transfer label Sears put on their tools and tool boxes back in the 40s. Most of the labels didn't survive because they are fragile and put in places that will easily wear if the tool gets used. This one clearly has not been used.

Craftsman 3742 #4 plane ca. autumn 1941 to autumn/winter 42/43.

Smooth bottom with burnished cheeks in unrestored condition.

Made by Millers Falls (OEM code 3C BB).

Many thanks to Greg on the Craftsman collector's FB page for identifying it for me.

 

[RTM]

Craftsman 3742 #4 plane ca. autumn 1941 to autumn/winter 42/43.

Smooth bottom with burnished cheeks in unrestored condition.

Made by Millers Falls (OEM code 3C BB).

Many thanks to Greg on the Craftsman collector's FB page for identifying it for me.

Here's a quick giveaway to a MF plane: MF in back, Craftsman in front. Note the lozenges on both, those ovals on the red face reclining towards you.

I put together a whole comparison of various Craftsman planes, to rebut those who said that Craftsman were cheaper / lighter / poorly made versions of the regular mfg , which was often Millers Falls or Sargent

 

[CRSINMICH]

This RITTER block plane came from an estate sale. While it's a very common type of block plane, there is almost no information about RITTER. There is, or was, a company called RITTER MACHINERY that made woodworking machines but there doesn't seem to be a connection.

I have almost no interest in block planes despite owning 5 or 6 or 10 of them but this one does have some quirks that could generate some speculation, ideas, and/or wild guesses.

In Section 1 of the second picture, notice that the second 'R' in RITTER is messed up. I thought it was just a casting defect which it is. However, on closer inspection, it's also a different font size. What happened there?

In Section 2, the U.S.A is messed up too. The periods after the initials don't show up well in the photo but they are there, at least after the U and the S. If the A had one it got lost somewhere on the casting. The A is also crooked and out of alignment with the other letters. Those problems are probably casting errors?

In section three, the N and the H are fairly well cast but the H is cocked to the left. The obvious assumption is that NH stands for New Hampshire, but without any information about RITTER who knows?

The final picture shows the underside of the lever cap where the NH is nicely done. The fact that it's on the underside brings up another area of speculation. On many Stanley planes, there are sometimes letters cast into the underside of the lever cap and even on the bed of the plane. They identify the foundries that did the actual casting and can be used to help date the plane. That could be the case here but who knows? Care to guess?

 

[Old Radar]

Care to guess?

The foundry hired a FNG and the old head foreman was testing his ability to cast letters. The foreman did everything but the last letter and had the new guy complete the task.

Ending #1. The FNG finally got the hang of it with the last NH.

Ending #2. The Foreman saw the FNG couldn't hit his *** with either hand, fired him and completed the last NH himself.

 

[RTM]

In Section 1 of the second picture, notice that the second 'R' in RITTER is messed up. I thought it was just a casting defect which it is. However, on closer inspection, it's also a different font size. What happened there?

I'd guess this.

 

[RTM]

In Section 1 of the second picture, notice that the second 'R' in RITTER is messed up. I thought it was just a casting defect which it is. However, on closer inspection, it's also a different font size. What happened there?

Alternately, the letter drawer looked like the one in this link, and just like the bulk bins of nuts at the hardware store, you need to verify that EVERY one you grab is the correct size, and a lazy or sloppy or malicious person wasn't there before you.

 

[CRSINMICH]

The comments,ideas, and guesses about the RITTER block plane are all possibilities. It's a safe bet that it was made by FUBAR Inc.

There are a few more things about it that I'd like to point out. First, look closely at the first three pictures. There is no depth adjustment. To increase the depth of cut, you'd have to tap on the top of the cutting iron just like with a wood-bodied plane. I haven't figured out how it could be decreased easily.

Now, look at the last picture. The mouth is exceedingly wide. A wide mouth is usually used when planing soft woods. Is that what was intended, or was it just more inattention to detail?

One last thing. I just watched a short documentary on Youtube about screws. (I'm not kidding, I really did. Check out The History Guy). The screw holding the knob is Phillips head. According to the documentary, that would mean that the RITTER had to have been made no earlier than the early 1930's and most likely post-WWII. I only mentioned it to point out the ridiculous details that have to be considered when trying determine when a tool was made.

You may have wondered why I bought the RITTER in the first place. The simple answer is that I bought it just because it was unique, goofy, and it was very inexpensive, but I'm still wondering;

WHY DID ANYONE THINK THIS CHEAP PLANE NEEDED TO BE MADE?​

 

[RTM]

I got to the same dating point as you, but delayed a bit to more like the 50s, due to supplying the mass home owner market. This is a knock off of a Stanley 103 in all its cheapness, and there were tons made by everyone and their brother. Sell it cheaper than Stanley and make 50¢ per unit. Not a precision tool by any means, I try not to get them, have one from a box lot.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I googled "Ritter hand plane" yesterday. Didn't provide much information but I did see another plane almost exactly like this. I don't recall what site had it for sale but the smaller "R" at the end of Ritter and "NH" like yours. The "U.S.A." wasn't the same as far as I could tell but may have been. It would be interesting to know the origin and details as to who made it.

 

[CRSINMICH]

I once had dog who wouldn't stop gnawing at a large cow bone until it was nearly gone. He just wouldn't stop.

When I first started researching the RITTER I read a little snippet in which someone suggested that SARGENT had made them. I just found this No.1107 in a 1961 SARGENT catalog. The dimensions of both planes are identical. There was also one in SARGENT'S 1912 catalog but it was called a No.107.

There were very very similar block planes in old Millers Falls catalogs but there were slight differences in the beds.

Of course, there is also a slight difference between the RITTER and the SARGENT plane. The screw in the SARGENT is slotted! Damn!!

This is a common occurrence in tool dating and identifying - ambiguous findings.

 

[RTM]

Stanley, Millers Falls, and Sargent were the big innovators, with the high quality brass nuts etc, the knock offs, not so much. Most used purely functional fasteners, with no style points, nothing to really make them special.

The second tier gang, like Ohio, Birmingham, etc had style and quality and some innovation, just didn’t sell as many.

The knock offs, most were functional, barely.

 

[Farmer J.]

Here's a link to a very enjoyable 13 minute film of the Ken Hawley collection in Sheffield, the hand planes start after about 3 minutes. Well, I enjoyed it anyway, and hope some people on here do too! Wonderful man and an exceptional collection, he left us a great legacy.

.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Farmer J: Thanks for posting that link. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I wish I hand known about the museum when we visited England a few years ago. I'll have to plan a return trip.

I have a brace that looks like the one Mr. Hawley said was the first tool he ever collected. I'll have to give it a closer look.

I have a tool box with some of my father's tools in it along with a few of my grandfather's which I've set aside for my son. He asked about it the other day. I'll add a few of my own tools now.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

That was a very enjoyable video. I can imagine how sincerely appreciative Mr. Hawley is of having lived throw that period when Sheffield was at the center of the tool universe. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Modern Garage]

Regarding the lack of depth adjustment, I have an almost identical block plane with no markings that I use sometimes. The depth is adjusted just like a wooden plane, by tapping the toe or heel with a mallet or on on the workbench. I keep the little tension wheel under the iron tightened only enough so that a sharp rap will move the iron a tiny amount.
Joe

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Well, I'm going to crosspost this here because it got zero comments in the garage sale thread. At least here I know you guys can appreciate this stuff...

Up early Thu morning to hit an estate sale across town where I saw one bad pic of what I hoped would be two Stanley hand planes. I was first in line by a mile. Turned out to be worth it. Ended up bringing home a Stanley No 8C & a No 6C, both type 11, Stanley No 3 type 16 and a Stanley Bedrock No 604 type 5 (?). Lots of patina and very very little rust. Not perfect but will clean up to be good users. Cons: No 8 iron is getting short, 3 of 4 totes are/have been cracked but all look tight (may need to be epoxied though), No 604 has a chipped Stanley lever cap that I'll need to replace. Pros: 4 great Stanley planes for $90! The 604 will now keep my 605 company. :0)

After that I picked up a Grizzly T10010 10" wet grinder (30th anniversary edition) with accessory kit #2 off CL. Grinder and acc kit had very little use and the stropping wheel has not been used. This accessory kit is for woodturners. I'm not a woodturner but the price was right. I've been wanting to try out a slow speed grinder. 110 RPM on this one.

Looking at the 604 this morning, I think I got the type 5 wrong. It has a SW iron (final version) which I assume was added by a previous owner so I don't think I can learn anything from the iron in trying to type the plane. It has the '95 and '10 dates, raised flat for the knob and a 1-1/4" adjustment wheel. So I'm thinking type 6a? I also was thinking it was missing it's Bedrock logo'd lever cap but just read that starting with type 7 the bedrock planes had a Stanley in notched rectangle logo so the lever cap is probably original. It still needs to be replaced though. Any thoughts on typing or otherwise are appreciated.

 

[RTM]

Looking at the 604 this morning, I think I got the type 5 wrong. It has a SW iron (final version) which I assume was added by a previous owner so I don't think I can learn anything from the iron in trying to type the plane. It has the '95 and '10 dates, raised flat for the knob and a 1-1/4" adjustment wheel. So I'm thinking type 6a? I also was thinking it was missing it's Bedrock logo'd lever cap but just read that starting with type 7 the bedrock planes had a Stanley in notched rectangle logo so the lever cap is probably original. It still needs to be replaced though. Any thoughts on typing or otherwise are appreciated.

Not caring much about types for my users, I just go here to look them up when people ask.

https://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm

Type 7 makes logical sense, but I can't tell if the background of your Stanley is textured like this picture. Irons are a poor choice for typing, as guys with multiple users think nothing of swapping them around. But a 7b might work too.



But yeah, a 604 at $90 is a decent price, four total is even better.

Trying not to reply with much technically in main Garage Sale thread, gets lost WAYYY too fast.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Not caring much about types for my users, I just go here to look them up when people ask.

https://www.antique-used-tools.com/brtypes.htm

Type 7 makes logical sense, but I can't tell if the background of your Stanley is textured like this picture. Irons are a poor choice for typing, as guys with multiple users think nothing of swapping them around. But a 7b might work too.



But yeah, a 604 at $90 is a decent price, four total is even better.

Trying not to reply with much technically in main Garage Sale thread, gets lost WAYYY too fast.

The lever cap has no texturing within the rectangle around the Stanley logo. Maybe it's been replaced.

You offer it might be a 7b. I assume that's somewhat based on the lever cap and the sweetheart iron. It's interesting that the website you linked shows that 7b logo after the other Made in the USA sweetheart logo out of sequence with what the Stanley plane dating type studies by Patrick Leach shows. Here's the verbage from Leach on the Sweetheart logos on the plane irons...

"A series of logo changes are found on these planes. All 3 of the logos are the result of the merger between Stanley Rule and Level, the tool producer, and The Stanley Works, the hardware producer. A notched rectangle, in which the word "STANLEY" is stamped, sits over a heart-shaped design, in which the letters "S.W." are stamped. The "S.W." stands for The Stanley Works, and "STANLEY", obviously, stands for the rule and level firm. The heart-shape is a memorial to The Stanley Works long-time president, William Hart. The first version of the logo has "NEW BRITAIN," "CONN. U.S.A." in two lines under the heart, and dates from around 1920. The next version, dating from 1921-1922, just has "MADE IN U.S.A" below the heart, in one line that is longer than the length of the notched rectangle. The final logo, dating from 1923-1935, is identical to the second, but the "MADE IN U.S.A." line is a hair shorter than the length of the notched rectangle. These new logos are know as the "sweetheart" logo in the tool collecting biz."​

I also absolutely agree that it is unimportant in terms of user planes. I find it interesting to know nonetheless.

 

[Old Radar]

What do you have to do to chip a lever cap like that? Use it as an adze?

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Definitely been abused! Looking for a replacement, they sure think a lot of the Bedrock lever caps on eprey.

 

[CRSINMICH]

tx: That was quite a score. Congrats! It is fun to learn about all the little fiddly bits and how they change over time but, you're right, ultimately what counts is how well the plane works. Have fun with it.

tx & Old Radar: I've seen lots of lever caps that are chipped like that. I think that many times they were broken when the owner used the lever cap as a screwdriver to loosen the large screw which holds the chip breaker to the cutting iron. It gives me the willies when I see someone do that, even Paul Sellers.

 

[Old Radar]

 

[Jim C.]

tx: "............

tx & Old Radar: I've seen lots of lever caps that are chipped like that. I think that many times they were broken when the owner used the lever cap as a screwdriver to loosen the large screw which holds the chip breaker to the cutting iron. It gives me the willies when I see someone do that, even Paul Sellers.

No need to “think” that’s how the lever cap ended up chipped along the front edge. You’re safe definitively “knowing for sure” that it was used as a screwdriver.

Jim C. (Who detests blatant misuse of a tool.)

 

[RTM]

I’m in the used as a screwdriver camp too.

I forget who put out the first “type study” for bedrocks, but it predates my interest in them. I go to Leach for general plane info, and Kaune for other stuff, share the web traffic

 

[CRSINMICH]

Here's a lever cap break that I've only seen once. I didn't buy the plane so I had to fake it for purposes of discussion. The first picture shows the lever cap with a jagged red line where the crack was. The second has the lever cap removed to give a clear view of the source of the crack. The culprit was the user who over-tightened the lever cap screw and then had to put extra force on the lever cap locking cam. I included an exploded view of a plane with all of its parts labeled just in case.