Show your Indestro and Duro-Chrome tools

[outofbounds]

Great stuff four-cycle, d42jeep, and Private Lugz! Never failing to amaze with the insights.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Unless I'm mistaken, d42jeep, twertsy, and myself have come across "D-I" stuff that was definitely made prior to 1942 (plated)

Could be. But I suspect immediate postwar instead.

...when the supplies of some alloys were still being tightly controlled by the federal government.

That's not true. M- (Material) and L- (Limitation) Orders started to be relaxed before the war was over, as early as late 1944, and throughout 1945 prior to VE- and VJ-Days. It's amazing how confident we were about victory even before we crossed the Rhine. But I have found untangling that to be even more complex than the gradual tightening of the M- and L- Orders in 1941 and 1942, so I just ignore it and use the end of the war as a return to normal with respect to plating and composition.

 

[four.cycle]

"That's not true."

I knew you were going to say that.
Now I'm going to go have to dig out that old catalog (I believe it's a 1948, as that is the date on the price sheets that came with it.) Catalog No. 16.
On the first page there's a lengthy dissertation, the gist of which is "We're doing the best we can here, folks, but bear with us while the federal government eases up on the restrictions of the alloy metals we were using."
Didn't include it when I took all the photos of the catalog pages ( here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344222 ) because at the time i didn't think it was of any significance. Obviously it is at this juncture.
I've got to go run errands all day. I'll see if I can locate the pile and dig it out later and shoot a photo and get it posted here.

Could be. But I suspect immediate postwar instead.

For reasons we both know and understand, I believe that is correct.
There was something about a set I acquired marked "D-I" that caused me to believe it was produced prior to 1942, but at the moment I can't recall.
If I knew where stuff was around here it would be simpler.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Don't vex yourself, 4.c. I've seen statements to that effect in many immediate postwar catalogs. But I have all the actual dates that the WPB started relaxing M, E and L orders, and it began in late 1944, starting with molybdenum. I don't think the two facts contradict each other. All of the tool OEMs were struggling to continue to fill military orders and update their processes, suppliers, marketing, and business with commercial clients. Williams didn't even publish a major catalog until 1947.

 

[Outlawmws]

4.c,

So, here is that valve lapper I was telling you about over on my Mossberg thread, the one I pulled out of the large flea market lot of fixed socket era wrenches. The size is what immediately caught my eye! I have a handful of these type valve lappers and they are all on 1/2-inch drive speeders. I was astonished by the size. So I went back and checked the 1935 catalog. Originally, I had just looked at the figure and assumed it was a standard size handle, but the No. 626 came only 10" OAL! The No. 637 is 15" OAL. This one appears to be a hybrid of the No. 636 handle with a non-socket version of the No. 642 adjustable (sliding) type lapper attachment pinned directly to the end of the handle.

As small as that is, I'd have expected it to be for small engines like B&S or Tecumseh. Cool find!

 

[four.cycle]

RE: Indestro 1948 catalog No. 16
Note that the August 27, 1948 price list has a line printed at the top about “See 1945, 1947 or No. 16 catalog to which this applies”.
If I am interpreting that line correctly, then assuming the date of the catalog itself is 1948 should be correct.



(* full-size copies sent to you guys under separate cover. estimated delivery on the 1939 Thorsen catalog is Jan. 14. *)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That is astounding, 4.c. It reads like a wartime catalog to me. It seems inconceivable, but perhaps for expense purposes they simply re-printed the 1945 in 1947 and again in 1948 for No. 16 and slapped a Price List on it in dated August 1948. That's the only explanation I can think of.

There is some precedence for this, as the wartime Plomb Catalog 19-R (for Regulations) was re-printed several times between 1945 and 1948 when they came out with the Plomb-Proto Catalog No. 4820.

I just re-checked a mess of immediate postwar catalogs (1946 Cornwell, 1946 Bonney, 1946 MAC, 1947 OTC, 1948 Billings, 1948 Herbrand, 1948 Craftsman, and 1948 None Better) and there is no mentions of any govt limitations and restrictions.

Snap-on Catalog Q (pub. Nov 1944) is the last Snap-on catalog to include any reference to govt limitations and restrictions on page 2. In Snap-on Catalog R (pub. August 1946), all of those notices have ben removed from page 2.

The introduction in the 1946 Cornwell, one of my favorite catalogs of all time, takes great pains to discuss how their wartime experience enabled them to grow and catapult in process and quality.

There is a strange wartime echo notice on the first page of a Williams catalog that has been dated to 1947, but there are no notices or limitations, and all the tools are postwar styles, compositions, and designs.

EDIT: On top of that, and following up on my earlier comments about an early, gradual slackening, note that WPB Order M-23-a restricting vanadium and M-110-a restricting molybdenum were revoked in November 1944 and priority ratings for alloy steel were lowered at the same time. M-24-C requiring producers to use 70% scrap as a source for alloys was still in place. WPB Limitation Order L-216 was partially revoked in October 1944 (for vises), in December 1944 (for wrench sets), and completely (pliers, etc) in April 1945.

 

[four.cycle]

Taken all together, it does give one pause.
I am at a loss to come up with any conclusions.

 

[outofbounds]

Taken all together, it does give one pause.
I am at a loss to come up with any conclusions.

Wouldn't there be a bit of a "ramp up" post war as it related to the availability of certain resources (steel being one of them?) that could have lasted a few years, especially if you are "lower on the food chain", or very deep in feed stock contracts, that a supplier was holding you to?

I can't imagine there is a single point in time where everyone was simply able to turn the spigot back on simultaneously.....

 

[four.cycle]

Picked up the mail earlier today and got a whole box of goodies from outofbounds - thanks very much!

 

[outofbounds]

Picked up the mail earlier today and got a whole box of goodies from outofbounds - thanks very much!

Cool, 4C, I hope it met with your satisfaction!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an old durochrome box I have been keeping old duro stuff in. Not sure of exact age but guessing thirties. Anyone have a catalog reference?

 

[four.cycle]

Dimensions shown in all catalogs for "Junior" box: 19½" x 7¼" x 7¼"



Dimensions shown in all catalogs for "Senior" box: 23" x 8¼" x 10¼"



* See post below for comment about label inside lid of box.

 

[four.cycle]

First, it should be noted that illustrators took great liberties when depicting their clients' products for catalog illustrations.

The triangular label shown inside the lid of the box in the above catalog illustrations looks nothing at all like the decal that would have actually been affixed to the box at the factory.

The 1935, 1939, and 1940 catalogs show the earlier "shield" shaped logo with the "Tools of Progress" slogan in illustrations of other socket sets throughout the catalog.
Inexplicably they show a triangular-shaped label inside the lids of both the SC78 and JC47 sets shown above.



The 1951 Duro Chrome catalog No. 35M does not offer either the JC47 or the SC78 sets. The other socket sets throughout the catalog show the later "Doggone Good Tools" label on the insides of lids.



In 1946 and 1948 magazine advertisements for Duro Chrome tools, the dog and the "Doggone Good Tools" slogan is used.



I think it would be reasonable to assume your box dates back to the 1930s, or possibly as late as 1941. I think Private Lugnutz would probably agree with me that steel for tool boxes between 1942 and 1945 would most likely not have been available for consumer products.


(* As an aside: to underscore how far off base illustrators were in depictions of products or services for catalogs or advertisements, note that the man working behind the counter in the 1946 "Motor" magazine ad is wearing a jacket and tie. *)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Great info FC. Those illustrations are interesting. This one appears to be the senior box.

 

[d42jeep]

So it looks to me like OTG’s box is a “senior” box made between ‘35 and ‘40 judging by it having the side handles and the “Tools of Progress” label. All of my wartime set boxes with that label are painted green.
It looks like the counterman wearing the suit and tie is actually Clark Kent moonlighting from his job as a reporter. I guess the Daily Planet didn’t pay all that well.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That guy looks like he works in a bank

 

[RTM]

But remember, a lot of old catalogs showed craftspeople working in dress clothes too. Ah the good old days when people got dressed up for work. Not

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I guess it was a bank.. a tool bank!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Toolboxes were not restricted categorically by the WPB, but they were limited, just like certain tools, for redundancy. Mfgs couldn't make a hinge handle in three different lengths, just to name a handy example, and the same went for toolboxes and tote trays. You can see that concept play out in several of the wartime catalogs we have.

As for the way vintage illustrations depict service station attendants, countermen, and even mechanics, I'm going to have to disagree with you guys. In general, we rapidly became much more casual in dress over the course of the last half of the last century as a society. It was not at all unusual for certain men in certain blue collar fields, including service men of all stripes (electricians, plumbers, refrigeration, etc) to dress more formally well into the 50's and early 60's. And with respect to the automotive industry, not at all unusual, especially on the East Coast and in urban, suburban and small town environments. Gas station attendants wore caps and bowties reminiscent of uniforms. As I discussed in the introduction to my 'Roaring 20's' thread, the automobile was still exotic from the Brass era into the 20's, despite Henry Ford's efforts to produce it for the masses. The formality was a carryover from the days of "automobilists" wearing scarves, goggles and driving gloves. It was a gentlemen's hobby. Owning an automobile was a privilege for the longest time, and even when it became more of a utility, the people in the service industry still dressed more formally and sharply to honor that considerable investment. It may have been different in rural areas, but my point is that I don't think the ads are at all unrealistic.

 

[four.cycle]

^ point well taken, but:

"...especially on the East Coast and in urban, suburban and small town environments..."

I'd contend that the "casual" look was more prevalent and began earlier the farther west you got.

I posted an example here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8252065#post8252065 a little while back.

While i am old enough to remember sharply dressed young girls who operated the elevators in department stores, I do not recall ever having seen any man pumping gasoline at a Texaco station wearing a tie. (There was a Texaco station right across the street from the old man's store.)

Picking through old catalogs and magazines and trade publications during the last few weeks, I have noted that advertisements for mop buckets show men sharply dressed in what one today would call a "uniform", but again, I think that sort of thing was far more prevalent in the east.

Customs and social mores in dress is an interesting subject. In 1910, no self-respecting man would be seen outdoors without a hat. When my great grandmother Eva Potter was buried in 1966, my grandmother had to have the funeral home open the coffin so she could put gloves on her mother's hands, as no decent woman would go out without wearing gloves.

I will concede, however, that since WWII we have become a nation of slobs when it comes to our choices of attire.

 

[Outlawmws]

I can remember late 50's and early 60's guys at gas stations dressing more smartly and in uniform. Even in the early 70's Chevron had guys wearing the company colors. The very end of an era though.

My dad had company coveralls from Bekins moving company, partly as uniform and partly so belt buckles and the like did not scratch furniture from his days working the trucks before he got into sales.

This was all west coast BTW

 

[Old Radar]

I scored this nice ½” Indestro Socket Wrench Set today at an estate sale. The decal really sold me. I searched archive.org’s catalogs but didn’t find a match for this set. I think it may be older than their 1935 catalog because my logo didn’t turn up. Can anyone date this set for me? Also, I’m wondering if the set is complete.



I’ve posted the socket picture upside down so it’s easier to read the sizes. All the 6-point sockets are the same except the 7/16 and ½ which have flat tops (lower right in picture). The ½ is even more odd because the stamp is upside down compared to the others. Beyond that, a couple of the size stamps are much less pronounced than the others and some of the font sizes are smaller than others. Is that just a manufacturing anomaly or is it indicative of different manufacturing years? In the picture, the top row has a 3/8 adapter and then two square drive sockets.

The final oddity that I've noticed is the 3/4 socket appears to have been run through the knurling process twice.

So, my questions for the experts are:
Can anyone give an age estimate?
Does the set appear to be complete?
These two could be answered with a catalog--does anyone have one?
Are the contents from multiple years?
What's the story with the 1/2 stamped upside down?
I seem to recall someone searching for double stamped sockets. Does the 3/4 count?

Thanks for your comments/advice/pointers!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yowza. That is a splendid set and decal, Old Radar.

I will defer to 4.c on this, but I think your reasoning is very sound on it being older than 1935, not just because of the logo, but the square L-T handle and extension. Those were round shanks with forged drive ends by the mid to late 30's, although I do still see them in some 1935 catalogs.

I think it's almost certain that you're missing a few sockets. There is a very similar set (No. 1522) with very similar contents advertised in 1930's hardware store catalogs. That set has 11/32, 3/8, 21/32, 13/16, and 15/16 hex sockets. And it has a 7/16 square socket. On the other hand, it doesn't have the 17/, 19/, or 25/32 sockets - also pointing to yours probably being older.

As for the production anomalies (one socket stamped upside down, font differences, knurled twice, etc), these are very common results in that era, not just for Indestro, but other mfgrs. I wouldn't consider those indicative of an unoriginal set or a set that has been cobbled together by a PO.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I posted a similar set back on post 1016. AA dates those in the 28 to 31 range, although I have seen that decal into the late 30s on their economy line stuff.

 

[four.cycle]

Old Radar -
That is a fabulous set there.

I have that box, but I bought it empty, and for the same reason you bought yours: the decals, which are simply delightful graphics and are definitely of 1920s era design. The decals on mine (both inside and on top of the lid) are probably 80%-90% intact.

You are correct that the set does not appear in the 1935 catalog in that form, but the 641, 646, and 657 1/2" square drive "L" offset handle, "L-T" handle, and long extension do appear on page 17 of the 1935 catalog.

The "heavy ratchet" is rather enigmatic, in that the only place it shows up that I've been able to find is in the 1536 "Master" series set shown in the 1935 catalog on page 20, the same 1536 "Master" set in a 1930 Union Hardware Co. catalog, and again in the 1536 "Master' set in a 1938 Jensen-Byrd Hardware Co. catalog. The 1536 set, however, is nothing at all like what you have there, which is obvious from the catalog illustrations.

It is nothing at all like the more common 655 ratchet (patent 1798481) found in almost all the other "Master" series sets from that era, and certainly nothing at all like the 657 ratchet (for which I've never found a patent number.)

(* I should note here I've seen that ratchet in a document somewhere else recently, but I cannot recall where at the moment. Nor do I have any idea where my two copies of that same ratchet are in this mess.)

The sockets are (I believe) the earliest iteration of Indestro square drive sockets, with the stars stamped on each side of the size stamping.
As Private Lugnutz notes, that the stampings don't exactly match each other, or that one is "upside-down", is certainly nothing out of the ordinary, and not an indication that the contents may have come from different sets. I would (and do) view it as most likely all original, although it's possible it may be missing one or two pieces, but without a catalog that early we're into guesswork and conjecture.

"...their 1935 catalog..."

That's actually kind of funny. I own the hard copy of that catalog. GarageJournal member twertsy scored it on Ebay for me because I was out of town when that auction ended. He scanned it and uploaded it to his ToolArchives.com site in *.pdf format, and then somebody from Archives.org lifted it from ToolArchives' site to make it available for download.
It came in the original mailing envelope with a nicely written cover letter to the recipient.
The *.pdf format catalogs are certainly easier to work with (and far less fragile) but there's just nothing quite like the smell and feel of the hard copy in the hand.
(I have a couple dozen others here I need to get back to TA so they can also be made available. Then I wouldn't have to do all this searching for photo snips.)

Again, that's really quite a nice set there. You definitely found a keeper.







(* I just noticed that the "long extension" shown in the 1935 catalog was assigned a part number of 657, and my mystery ratchet has 657 and "Indestro" stamped on it. Not the first time I've seen Indestro using the same part number on different items. Go figure. )

 

[four.cycle]

AA dates those in the 28 to 31 range, although I have seen that decal into the late 30s on their economy line stuff.

And that wouldn't be the first time some sort of errata was unearthed at Alloy-Artifacts.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Good to know!

 

[Old Radar]

Thanks all for the speedy replies!

4C--I notice in the kit illustrations from the catalog the word Indestro has a "downhill" look to the graphic, whereas Indestro in the decal on my box has an "uphill" slant. Was this the graphic artist interpretation that didn't exactly pan out or were there two logos at possibly different times?

 

[four.cycle]

Good to know!

It's very possible that somebody at Indestro decided to keep using the same graphics for over a decade, but I believe that to be a very unlikely possibility.
The 1930's brought in the "Deco" look in architecture, home appliance design, and (more significantly in this context) advertising graphics.

I would put money on those graphics on that box being of 1920s vintage.

 

[four.cycle]

Old Radar - refer to my long-winded diatribe on the previous page in post #1094

 

[d42jeep]

I have three of those early 1/2” square drive sockets sitting around in my Indestro extras in case anyone needs them to fill out an early set.
-Don

 

[Old Radar]

Old Radar - refer to my long-winded diatribe on the previous page in post #1094

Thanks 4C! I had read that post earlier and it prompted my question to see if it was the same in this case. The artist's rendering is actually pretty close, depending on perspective.

 

[d42jeep]

Thanks to a late night alert from four.cycle, I did a buy it now on eBay to get this 1945 Duro ignition wrench set. It contains one of the almost impossible to find Duro Chrome screwdrivers. I have spare wrenches so the missing G65 won’t be a problem.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

ahh... so it was the G series! cool!

 

[d42jeep]

Yeah, thanks again for the lead. I cleaned up the set and added the screwdriver to my keeper sets. The canvas roll is pretty rare.
-Don

 

[BFBOB]

I have a little problem I hope someone can help me with: a little broken snap ring. It's for this Indestro Super 3/8" ratchet. I just picked it up at an estate sale, frozen. After a penetrating oil soak it freed up but still didn't work right. I went to disassemble it and found one of the tangs on the snap ring was rusted away. I managed to get it out by pulling and grabbing the other end in longnose Vise-Grips and tapping on it with my smallest hammer. The rat looks to be salvageable, but of course the snap ring is toast - did I mention the other tang broke off almost immediately when I removed it?

Does someone have a spare snap ring, or can point me to a source?

The part number is hard to read even with a magnifier - it's 2775

Thanks!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This thread is literally littered with No. 350 "Vest Pocket" 1/4-inch hex drive sets (see Outlaw post #405 on pg 21, and 4.c posts #490 on pg 25 and #647 and 648 on pg 33 for other examples and catalog references...), but I will add this one picked up at the flea market today, if only because it got a "that's cute" from Mrs. Lugnutz. Oddly, it has a second square socket rather than a radio screw socket (round internally knurled), probably because using sockets to turn knurled thumb-nut screws on cabinets was passe. Same 1936 patent number.

 

[GalaxyRat]

Here my "Handy" set I repainted, I think it's an early set since the case doesn't have any markings. I believe they used a sticker on the early sets.

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