Shower knob issues

[Learninggal]

All of a sudden, after turning on the top knob, it turned on the shower for five seconds and then abruptly turned off. The bottom knob is temperature control. Any ideas not troubleshoot this? Is it simply threading gotten loose and needs to be redone? Thanks.

 

[The Cobbler]

my guess would be a twisted or broken o ring that blocked off the port , or something along those lines.

 

[DGersic]

All of a sudden, after turning on the top knob, it turned on the shower for five seconds and then abruptly turned off. The bottom knob is temperature control. Any ideas not troubleshoot this? Is it simply threading gotten loose and needs to be redone? Thanks.

So the bottom knob is on/off for the water flow and temperature adjustment, while the top knob functions as the diverter control between what looks like two different shower outputs?

Who made the shower valve?

If it was Moen I’d suggest getting a new cartridge for the valve. Other brands may use a similar setup, but I’m not familiar with them.

 

[The Cobbler]

If it was Moen

I don't recognize the valve, but it doesn't look like Moen ( to me anyway)

 

[Learninggal]

So the bottom knob is on/off for the water flow and temperature adjustment, while the top knob functions as the diverter control between what looks like two different shower outputs?

Who made the shower valve?

If it was Moen I’d suggest getting a new cartridge for the valve. Other brands may use a similar setup, but I’m not familiar with them.

Top one is on/off control only - move counter-clockwise to turn on and counter to turn off while the bottom is temperature. I checked the sides of the knob to see if I can find a brand name, but there is none. The last owner installed this Chinese manufacturer Jacuzzi, which has gone out of business

 

[geneg]

Top one is on/off control only - move counter-clockwise to turn on and counter to turn off while the bottom is temperature. I checked the sides of the knob to see if I can find a brand name, but there is none. The last owner installed this Chinese manufacturer Jacuzzi, which has gone out of business

Look at the "set" screw on the lower knob. Someone has had the knob off & replaced it with the round head stovebolt. It appears that someone else had issues with it & made some sort of repair. The appearance of the set seems imported vs name brand to me.
I'd measure the holes & shop for something better that fits without affecting the shower wall.

If you do decide to repair it & there is an access panel in the wall, the valve bodies may have a brand name or an upc sticker. If not, remove the knob & escutchen plate to see them from the front. Take the parts & photos to a real hardware store to see if you can get matching seals or cartridges.

I'd have to agree that a chunk of rubber from an oring or seal probaly tore off & blocked a port.

With the history of the chinese jacuzzi- I'd replace it with something better.

Good luck

 

[Learninggal]

I like your advice. Next, I'll remove everything and post some pictures again. Would Home Depot do or they are unlikely to carry a good variety of parts that would fit?

 

[DGersic]

HD probably has a selection of name brand (Moen, Price Pfister, etc.) parts and may have some generic parts as well. Maybe what you need, but you’ll have to get it apart first and figure out what the failure is.

HD probably wont have a guy that can look at your failed part, and go “oh, yeah, you need this” as he reaches in to a dusty drawer to pull out the right size O ring and a new setscrew for you. An old fashioned hardware store, if you have one, is more likely to have that kind of service. But good luck finding a real hardware store these days.

That panel that the knobs are on looks like it may be removable, has been caulked in to place. You may be excavating that to find out what lurks below.

 

[Learninggal]

I took the one screw out but can’t pry the shower knob out. 3 in 1 oil isn’t helping and I placed 2 screw drivers on either side to pull out but it didn't work. It’s turning fine but won’t come out. Do I need to remove the back plate first? I haven’t applied maximum force yet to avoid breaking something but maybe that's the next step. As can be seen in the pics, there is some rust. Thanks

 

[Learninggal]

This is the back of the top knob, which controls the direction of the output valve. If we can just change the knob and not touch/damage anything else that would be ideal since that'll be a bigger job

 

[DGersic]

I took the one screw out but can’t pry the shower knob out. 3 in 1 oil isn’t helping and I placed 2 screw drivers on either side to pull out but it didn't work. It’s turning fine but won’t come out. Do I need to remove the back plate first? I haven’t applied maximum force yet to avoid breaking something but maybe that's the next step. As can be seen in the pics, there is some rust. Thanks

You’re not going to get that knob off without some really good luck.



You need a centre punch to make a small divot in the middle of the broken screw. Then a left handed drill bit. You might also first soak it for a couple of days with penetrating oil like PB Blaster.

You're going to attempt to drill out the broken set screw. If you’re really lucky, the bit will grab, and between the drill torque and the penetrating oil, will back the rest of the screw out. I’ve only had that work once.

If you’re lucky, you’ll run the drill through the screw, removing most of it, then can use whatever punches or picks you can get in there with to remove the rest of it,

If you’re not lucky at all, the drill bit will go part way through the screw before breaking off.

But until you get the setscrew out, that knob isn’t coming off.

Depending on your luck, you may end up having to destroy the knob.

 

[Learninggal]

So if this doesn't work, then is Plan B using angle grinder to cut off the knob?

 

[DGersic]

This is the back of the top knob, which controls the direction of the output valve. If we can just change the knob and not touch/damage anything else that would be ideal since that'll be a bigger job

You’re already deep in to “bigger job” territory here.

Disclaimer: This forum is filled with people that DIY projects that even professionals will shy away from. And I’m one that will attempt pretty much any repair or upgrade, accepting that the deeper in to it I go, the bigger that repair gets. Not to dissuade you, but I’m not getting the sense that you’re as comfortable with tearing things apart by any means necessary and repairing or replacing whatever it is that isn’t working. Consider calling a plumber if you need to.

Ok, so … a quick google search didn’t turn up any jacuzzi diverter valves that look like yours. That doesn’t bode well for easy replacement if things go pear shaped here. But, inside that wall, you have a valve assembly something like this one:



Getting the knob off is needed just to get to the guts of the valve. A similar valve, exploded out, looks something like this:



With the knob off, you’ll have access to whatever retaining clips or similar that hold the guts in to the valve body. You’ll have to disassemble the valve body, where you will probable find that some kind of O ring or “rubber” washer has failed and will need to be replaced. You may, if you’re lucky, be able to buy the needed O ring, then reassemble the valve, and it works.

Or, you may need to replace the valve. Especially if you manage to damage it while attempting to remove the knob with that busted setscrew. Maybe you can find the manufacturer to get a replacement, but if it is indeed a cheep Chinese jacuzzi from a company that no longer exists, yo may have to adapt some similar valve in to the system.

If you’re really unlucky, you’ll also have to pull apart whatever wall this is all hiding in.

 

[geneg]

So if this doesn't work, then is Plan B using angle grinder to cut off the knob?

I'd probably use a hacksaw or an oscillating tool. Sparks from an angle grinder & fiberglass tend to stick together.

 

[DGersic]

So if this doesn't work, then is Plan B using angle grinder to cut off the knob?

That’s an option, yes.

 

[75gmck25]

Before you cut off the knob, tape plastic over the entire wall around it and everywhere on the floor. The bits and pieces of that knob will go everywhere and your spouse will not like the cleanup issues. You may also have to cut the shaft before it completely comes off.

I would probably put a groove in the knob with an angle grinder where I want to start cutting, and then use a sawzall for a little better control to cut the rest of the way through. It should go fairly quickly.

Then you have to go to the back of the valve and see how to disconnect it from the water lines. Several connections are threaded, but the one from the bottom may be a soldered connection. The valve is also screwed to the framing somewhere and you have to reach those screws. Opening up the hole larger would make it a lot easier.

I haven't looked at universal diverter valves, but the one you have seems to be fairly standard size. However, it seems to have one feed in and five connections going out, which seem like a lot more than typical. It seems like it might be some variation of this diverter type. https://www.amazon.com/Diverter-Brass-Split-Shower-Faucet/dp/B0BD4JXMCS?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Learninggal]

Is this issue with screw breakage that occurs often? Thank you guys for all the guidance so far.

 

[Learninggal]

Got the knob out but can’t take out the rod/assembly. My friend told me it’ll have to be cut as well. If we do that, do you think I will get something similar with an on/off diverted knob on top and heat control at the bottom to replace it? Do you folks have any links where you’ve seen similar products online?

 

[DGersic]

Got the knob out but can’t take out the rod/assembly.

Can’t get it out…why? Pictures and description of why not would help.

 

[Learninggal]

Hey guys - just to conclude on this thread, I had to call a professional plumber on this one. I didn't have all the tools and I suspected the diverter valve was faulty. We replaced it with a Delta shower assembly and all good now. Also capped off all the piping to the Jacuzzi since it wasn't working anyways. Job was reasonably done in four hours and for a few hundred $. Only other issue that we've had in the past is, the drainage is not the best especially if bathroom is unused for 2 weeks+ but it would be a bigger job which would require taking out the Jacuzzi I'm guessing to check/fix it. - thanks everybody for your valuable advice!!

 

[Innovate1]

Glad you got it fixed. I learned the hard way quite a few years back to avoid the off brand stuff at the big box stores. It's a little cheaper but impossible to find parts or repair. You can find some discounts on name brand stuff to make the price difference smaller and the big thing is you can get parts. Often they have a lifetime warranty and will send you parts for free.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Hey guys - just to conclude on this thread, I had to call a professional plumber on this one. I didn't have all the tools and I suspected the diverter valve was faulty. We replaced it with a Delta shower assembly and all good now. Also capped off all the piping to the Jacuzzi since it wasn't working anyways. Job was reasonably done in four hours and for a few hundred $. Only other issue that we've had in the past is, the drainage is not the best especially if bathroom is unused for 2 weeks+ but it would be a bigger job which would require taking out the Jacuzzi I'm guessing to check/fix it. - thanks everybody for your valuable advice!!

You absolutely did the right thing. And, in the process, you learned something - or possibly many things - about your shower and plumbing in general. And now your shower is working again, probably better than ever. So it's still a win.

As a homeowner one of your most important skills is (to paraphrase Kenny Rogers) knowing when to hold 'em, and knowing when to fold 'em.