I went to replace a shower cartridge and to me surprise I broke the damn valve lol. Anyways the wife gets her new shower setup like she wants and I get to do it all lol. So I have to cut an access panel in the room behind to be able to get my hands in there to work. My house is 40+ years old so that makes everything more fun haha. I was wondering if I should go ahead and use pex for this project or just stick with copper seeing how that what is in the walls already. We have very hard water and have had to fix some pinholes already where the copper was corroded. My thinking is the pex will stand up to the minerals much better and potentially last longer. My coworker tells me to stay away from pex and crimping and to stick with copper and solder. He also says hes seen were the crimps fail rather than the pex pipe and I should just stick to copper and sweating the fittings. Any input on this? I haven't done a whole lot of plumbing but what I have read on pex and the crimp fittings I definitely see the benefits of using this for repairs. I haven't sweated any pipes but I feel its something I am very capable of doing. Just looking for some first hand experience info before I go shopping later today. Thanks!
Shower plumbing
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K'ledgeBldr
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I'd stick with the copper-
jeffmattero76
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Are you replacing the diverter?
Regardless, if you are going to have an access panel, I would recommend pex. However, you will still need to solder on a fitting to the old copper to make the transition, unless you want to pay up for sharkbites. You can get the new diverter setup for pex, so you will not have to solder fittings onto the new diverter, if this is a shower only (not tub & shower). Personally, I don't like to bury pex, but I have no problem using it where I can get to it if needed. One suggestion is to buy the cinch rings and tool rather than the crimp rings and tool. The cinch tool is much smaller and can get into tighter areas. I use pex in all of my rentals and not yet had an issue.
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Regardless, if you are going to have an access panel, I would recommend pex. However, you will still need to solder on a fitting to the old copper to make the transition, unless you want to pay up for sharkbites. You can get the new diverter setup for pex, so you will not have to solder fittings onto the new diverter, if this is a shower only (not tub & shower). Personally, I don't like to bury pex, but I have no problem using it where I can get to it if needed. One suggestion is to buy the cinch rings and tool rather than the crimp rings and tool. The cinch tool is much smaller and can get into tighter areas. I use pex in all of my rentals and not yet had an issue.
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https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pfister-Se...thtub-and-Shower-Faucet-with-Valve/1000564587
This is what I am getting that comes with everything. I will attach pictures of the broken one here shortly. I knew I was gonna have to figure the transition from the copper to the pex so I was torn between shark biting it or soldering. Then I thought if im already gonna have to solder why not just stick with copper. As far as the crimping goes I was just seeing there are two different styles of crimps like you mentioned. The ones that the tool goes around completely seemed to be better than the ones where you just pinch down the one side, but thats why im here asking to see which is the best to use lol. I am assuming the cinch rings are the ones that have the pinch type tool rather than the ones that wraps around the whole ring?
This is what I am getting that comes with everything. I will attach pictures of the broken one here shortly. I knew I was gonna have to figure the transition from the copper to the pex so I was torn between shark biting it or soldering. Then I thought if im already gonna have to solder why not just stick with copper. As far as the crimping goes I was just seeing there are two different styles of crimps like you mentioned. The ones that the tool goes around completely seemed to be better than the ones where you just pinch down the one side, but thats why im here asking to see which is the best to use lol. I am assuming the cinch rings are the ones that have the pinch type tool rather than the ones that wraps around the whole ring?
Stevedore
Well-known member
When soldered copper arrived on the scene, I expect that there were "old school" guys who preferred threaded galvanized or brass pipe & fittings.
I used PEX & the cinch clamp system to do a few things in this house we bought a couple of years ago; no problems yet, although I'll admit that 2 years isn't very much of a test.
We had our master bath rehabbed last year, and the plumber used PEX & some kind of crimp transition fittings to go from copper to PEX. (copper press?) This was on hot & cold water lines, and a relocated baseboard hot water heating line. I asked about soldered copper, & he implied that no one does that anymore, and he hasn't had any callbacks in the years he's been using the new stuff.
I can sweat copper easily enough, but handling & installing the PEX was pretty easy for me. Except for the upper body strength needed to squeeze those crimp rings closed! Maybe if I wasn't 72 with arthritic shoulders, wrists, etc., it would have been easier.
I used PEX & the cinch clamp system to do a few things in this house we bought a couple of years ago; no problems yet, although I'll admit that 2 years isn't very much of a test.
We had our master bath rehabbed last year, and the plumber used PEX & some kind of crimp transition fittings to go from copper to PEX. (copper press?) This was on hot & cold water lines, and a relocated baseboard hot water heating line. I asked about soldered copper, & he implied that no one does that anymore, and he hasn't had any callbacks in the years he's been using the new stuff.
I can sweat copper easily enough, but handling & installing the PEX was pretty easy for me. Except for the upper body strength needed to squeeze those crimp rings closed! Maybe if I wasn't 72 with arthritic shoulders, wrists, etc., it would have been easier.
I re-plumbed an entire house with pex 6 years ago and had no problems since.
I tried to minimize the fittings in the walls and used the stainless rings.
I wouldn't use sharkbites in the walls but that is just me.
Given that you are going to be making solder connections to existing copper anyway, I'm not sure if I would be buying new tools just for this though.
While you are in there, a thermostatic valve is a real luxury.
I tried to minimize the fittings in the walls and used the stainless rings.
I wouldn't use sharkbites in the walls but that is just me.
Given that you are going to be making solder connections to existing copper anyway, I'm not sure if I would be buying new tools just for this though.
While you are in there, a thermostatic valve is a real luxury.
jeffmattero76
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I think the link to Lowes is only the trim pieces, not the actual valve.
Personally, I only use Moen, and I buy it at a plumbing supply house rather than a big box store. Supposedly the plumbing supply has a better quality. In any case, they are lifetime guarantee from moen.
You are correct, the cinch rings are the ones you pinch on the one side.
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Personally, I only use Moen, and I buy it at a plumbing supply house rather than a big box store. Supposedly the plumbing supply has a better quality. In any case, they are lifetime guarantee from moen.
You are correct, the cinch rings are the ones you pinch on the one side.
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Look at the spec tab on the website. It clearly states that the valve is included.
Price looks very low for everything though....
jeffmattero76
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My mistake. I usually pay around $100 for the valve alone!!!
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James-W
Well-known member
Personally, I prefer a brass valve. We have brass faucets in the bathroom sink, as well as the tub/shower. We installed them in the early 80's when we remodelled the bathroom and have had no issues at all with them. They still work just fine and not one drop of water leaks from them.
I would go with the PEX but copper works really well too so I guess it really doesn't matter which one you use. All new homes around here are being done using PEX so it would seem that copper pipe is on its way out. If for some reason I had to replace the water pipes in my house I would use PEX and not think twice about it.
I would go with the PEX but copper works really well too so I guess it really doesn't matter which one you use. All new homes around here are being done using PEX so it would seem that copper pipe is on its way out. If for some reason I had to replace the water pipes in my house I would use PEX and not think twice about it.
nadogail
Well-known member
I own three rentals that were built with PEX, they are all working fine.
About 30 years ago they discovered that PEX was OK, but the fittings were the problem.
I am using Sharkbite fittings for all of the repairs I make. They seem to work fine and last a long time. There is no danger from fire while joining pipes when you use the Sharkbites.
About 30 years ago they discovered that PEX was OK, but the fittings were the problem.
I am using Sharkbite fittings for all of the repairs I make. They seem to work fine and last a long time. There is no danger from fire while joining pipes when you use the Sharkbites.
b-boy
Well-known member
I hired a plumber about 2 years ago to relocate my kitchen sink during a remodel. He used Pex and solderless copper compression fittings to attach to the old copper sections. I asked about sweated copper and he said they didn't do that anymore. He said he could do copper if I wanted, but the price would go way up.
After watching him work, I picked up the tools and I've switched to Pex. It's very easy to work with, inexpensive, and minimizes my chance of catching the house on fire.
I redid my basement bathroom in about half the time it would have taken me with copper.
Make sure you get good tools. I bought a cheap crimper at Lowes. I used it a few times and it literally fell apart in my hands mid-crimp. I still worry that it might not have fully crimped something before it broke. Spend a few more dollars for a better quality tool.
After watching him work, I picked up the tools and I've switched to Pex. It's very easy to work with, inexpensive, and minimizes my chance of catching the house on fire.
I redid my basement bathroom in about half the time it would have taken me with copper.Make sure you get good tools. I bought a cheap crimper at Lowes. I used it a few times and it literally fell apart in my hands mid-crimp. I still worry that it might not have fully crimped something before it broke. Spend a few more dollars for a better quality tool.
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MrSurly
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Falcon67
Well-known member
I just did the plumbing on the mast shower valve before the tile people came in. I cut back the copper lines, sweated on some PEX adapters and did the final hookup with PEX. Used crimp rings and a Sharkbite tool from Lowes - worked perfectly fine. Any copper lines that may fail in this house will get re-run with PEX, so now I have the tools to do that.
Our Delta trim, shower head, valve and the hand held ran just under $500. Commercial items, not consumer grade.
Our Delta trim, shower head, valve and the hand held ran just under $500. Commercial items, not consumer grade.
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I'll get some popcorn.
If you are expecting to see the pex air piping in my garage burst, you may also need a cot....
With my wife picking Hansgroge, I was double that.
I'll get some popcorn.
i am not using regular pex water pipe, i am using 400 psi rated pex made for compressors
MrSurly
Well-known member
Interesting. Have more info on it? Brand or source? Sounds pricey
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RapidAir Products Maxline Master Shop Air Kits M7500
rapid air products from summit racing i bought the 100' kit they give you 3 ports to put around the shop my kit i got for $150
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...P8rLia2T0SzL9kOA8anF0r5aYeJDZvFhoCE3cQAvD_BwE
House Frau
Active member
Whatever plan you go with, if you have not sweated copper pipe before run your garden hose thru a window and have that baby on stand by. Very embarrassing if you have to call the FD while doing a home repair!!!
MrSurly
Well-known member
Ah, the pex-al-pex. I knew about that, great stuff and popular here, too. I thought at first you meant 'regular pex'
jhrodd
Well-known member
Your copper and brass look awful, have you checked the PH of your water? I don't believe hard water has anything to do with your corrosion. I've been using PEX A from Uponor (Wirsbo) with EP expansion fittings exclusively for the past 15 years, the installation is foolproof and I have had -0- problems with it.
Our water is well water. Never had it tested to be honest. House is 40+ years old so I would imagine in that time the copper is gonna show it's age. So the general consensus seems to be a green light with pex and the cinch type crimps over the copper ring style crimps. Well now I know which tool to invest in as I see more plumbing projects on the horizon
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I have never had a rat chew thru copper, I have seen it chew threw pex. Just a thought
to keep in mind in old houses that get visitors...
Note- it was in a heat installation (yes they make a special pex for heat lines) and the rat was trying to get thru the hole where the line went thru the floor to the radiator. We had to replace the foot of pex between the radiator and thru the floor with copper.
I have also seen a Fernco fitting chewed thru by a rat- different client
to keep in mind in old houses that get visitors...
Note- it was in a heat installation (yes they make a special pex for heat lines) and the rat was trying to get thru the hole where the line went thru the floor to the radiator. We had to replace the foot of pex between the radiator and thru the floor with copper.
I have also seen a Fernco fitting chewed thru by a rat- different client
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Well I finally got my tun n shower faucet, crimp tool arrives tomorrow and got my pex fittings. Just need the brass ****** for the tub faucet but I will determine the length I need after I fix the boneheads bs who ruffed in the plumbing smh! After taking a closer look into the wall there are no supports for any of the plumbing that was done!!!! Everything was being supported by the copper pipes with a damn metal strap holding the shower head run to a board that was sandwiched against the nearest stud. So to make it easy on myself I will be ripping out the drywall from the room behind the shower to be able to tie down the valve and the drop ears. Can't believe they did that and called it good. Now that I think about it the whole plumbing was supported by the hot and water lines and the handle threaded onto the valve pinching it against the shower wall. I tell you owning an old home causes you to loose your mind and learn how things need to be done correctly. And why homes aren't built with access panels behind plumbing blows my mind, do these ppl really think there will NEVER be an issue and just slap the drywall over? I mean I'm no expert or even close but to me it just would seem to make sense to have access for something especially like plumbing
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BD1
Well-known member
Do you have sulfur in your well water ?? Sulfur attacks copper and just being in the air destroys it.
Falcon67
Well-known member
I'll tell MY wife, might make here feel "better". It's all $$$$ - single sheet of glass 36x62, two oiled bronze channels plus install $750 plus $80 trip charge just to measure.
We lucked out on snagging this pfister 50% off $60 and we were both happy [emoji23] now just to install tomorrow
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59 wagon man
Well-known member
you maybe creating more of a problem trying to convert to pex for this repair due to the fittings you need. copper lasted 40 + yrs . it looks like they never wiped the flux of the joints after they soldered. I do tons of these and would suggest you look at something with a repair plate such as a moen and you could be done with no tile or sheetrock work necessary and be done in a few hours. since you may have to shutoff all your water fill a bucket and a spray bottle with water befor shutting the main. spray bottle can wet down the wood and the bucket can be splashed into the wall if that doesn't work
Well now the wife has decided on replacing the tub and shower combo with something more updated. SMH what did I get myself into!!!! So any suggestions on the combos? Open to suggestions, I dunno how this cartridge replace is turning into a whole shower remodel
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Welcome to "Creeping Elegance" - any spouse is capable of this phenomenon - you just have not been married long enough to see it coming and deflect it early on skillfully
W0rLDWaR4
Well-known member
If you're going with PEX, please post pictures of your completed work. I would greatly appreciate it as I will be tackling this same project in the near future.
Good luck on your valve install
Good luck on your valve install
Lol it will be 5 years this year. So far I have a kitchen remodel with tile backsplash, 1 bathroom remodel,1 bathroom floor, a pergola, sprinkler system, and an upcoming flooring job lol. And upcoming home network is on the horizon as well. These events are what led me to discovering GJ! So thankful for everyones knowledge on here. I've literally learned all this things as I was going, never had any experience beforeWelcome to "Creeping Elegance" - any spouse is capable of this phenomenon - you just have not been married long enough to see it coming and deflect it early on skillfully
Oh also just remembered I have done a walk-in closet also [emoji28]
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I will definitely get some pictures!If you're going with PEX, please post pictures of your completed work. I would greatly appreciate it as I will be tackling this same project in the near future.
Good luck on your valve install
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Now the great decision. Do a tub and shower wall combo or do an all in one. Tub n wall combo seems to be a more quality job. The combo unit seems to be a quicker option. Both would cost roughly the same
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Oggy
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Any update, interested in seeing what direction you go/went...
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