Shower stall

[bherren]

I have a small bathroom next to my attached garage which I absolutely love. I call it my man-shower. Anyway, I am basically tearing out the old tile walls and replacing the fixtures and floor. I really like the shower pan, it is raw (for lack of a better term) concrete. I would like to paint it.

I want to do it right and have whatever finish I use last for years. I also want to avoid making any mistakes I will regret later. I have done some searching but am a little unclear on what type of finish to use and what prep needs to be done. Should I use epoxy or some special paint? Do I need to etch and remove sealer just as I would any other concrete? Any other tips?

Some other information.
basement level on a concrete foundation
House was built in 1965 and I am pretty sure the bath was constructed at that time.

Thank you in advance.

Bill

 

[Shiftless]

I vote for mosaic tile

 

[James-W]

You probably won't like this idea, but I will run it past you anyway. I think the one piece showers are really nice and if I were to put in a new shower, that is what I would do. It would be easy to install (compared to installing tile on the walls and floor) and the ones you can get these days are really solid and strong. In my opinion, they are very functional and the look quite nice.

 

[bherren]

I really did not want to tile it or tear it out and replace it. I am just looking for a paint/epoxy or coating similar to what you might see in a gym or school shower system. I do appreciate the replies. Anybody else? Will a regular garage epoxy work?

 

[rburke65]

What's under the exisiting tiled walls?

 

[bherren]

What's under the exisiting tiled walls?

on the one outside wall - drywall and 3/4 furring strips on a block wall. On the others drywall.

So maybe I was not real clear - When I remodel, I will tile back the walls. I do want to keep the existing pan - just looking to add some color to it.

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks for clearing up what you said originally. If I were you, I wouldn’t go to all the trouble of retiling the walls, putting in a new shower control valve which I assume you will do since the wall will be wide open, and then keep looking around for some paint like coating for an old concrete pan. If that starts to flake off sometime in the future or wear down with cleaning, you’ll hate yourself. It will also be slippery. Did you consider safety?

When I redid a stall shower in my house (that had a concrete pan), I ripped out EVERYTHING, replaced some damaged framing, put in a one piece plastic pan over new plywood underlayment and then the usual concrete board and porcelain tile on the walls.

PS. Drywall is not a good base for tile in a shower.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

PS. Drywall is not a good base for tile in a shower.

Schluter says different.

 

[Shiftless]

Schluter says different.

You are correct. The Kerdi membrane material from Schluter is great for covering drywall before tiling.
A 54 square foot roll which might not be enough costs $100 at Lowe’s.

 

[bherren]

Ok, I appreciate the input. I did think about safety but thought a grit or flake additive would suffice for traction. You did open my mind though, If I do all this work and the paint peels every year I will have lots of regrets. I will ponder the tile approach a while but I am still not ready to commit to tearing out the old pan.

Not wanting to get into the drywall debate. Let me just say the old tile and drywall is coming out and I intended to "overdo" the waterproofing when I re-cover the walls. However it is interesting to me that this 50 year old tile shows no signs that water penetrated and reached the drywall. Just an observation.

Thanks again.

 

[driftpin]

We just re-did our house in preparation for retirement. We kept the walls, but it got 4 new baths, 2 in the same location, two all-new. The existing bath sites got everything replaced from the stud walls-out.

Each of the baths is different. We didn't economize by using the same designs or tiles in all of them. We used a combination of jerusalem limestone, ceramic tile, porcelain tile, glass tile, and marble and granite. The walls underlayment was cement backerboard.

We used Hans Grohe and Waterworks fixtures, in a variety of styles. The rear master bath en-suite has two-wall body jets, the other two walls are glass.

What I like is that each bathroom is a different 'experience,' visually and dynamically. Sometimes I like to use another bathroom than the one I would use daily, just because of the difference. One full bath is off the hallway from the two-car garage, and the laundry/pantry is across from it. Like your shower, this is where I can enter the house from the attached garage, immediately step-into the bath, get cleaned-up, and throw my dirty clothes into the washer across the hall. My wife took several feet from one side of the garage to make this footprint, but since this is Florida, we don't have to keep the cars inside in the winter, so I don't need the garage as car/truck space, it's workshop space. I can and do use it for vehicle storage, as we recently did during Hurricane Irma. The entire block in-front of our home was impassable due to fallen trees, but the vehicle was safe inside.

From what I've seen, many old homes in the NE USA use the fiberglass shower surrounds or shower/tub combos during remodels, but you don't see as-many in homes in SE Florida. The convenience of the install I think is a big selling-point. Me, I like porcelain and ceramic tile, and stone.

I think painting the pan with some epoxy product could be a way to continue the garage theme into the bath.

 

[bherren]

Thanks for that story driftpin. Your remodel sounds awesome. I had a concept in mind but did a horrible job of communicating it. Your description: "continue the garage theme into the bath" will be very useful for me as I proceed with this project.

Thank you

ps. I was thinking some of the epoxy dealers might have responded to this thread. I find it interesting that they have not.

 

[driftpin]

I think the epoxy could work, but it will probably result in a plain, utilitarian look, without much eye-appeal. Does a bath need eye-appeal? yes, if you want to move, tiling in the shower or bath is probably a good way to make the 'other half' of the decision team on buying the prospective house say, "I like what he's done here." I bet you've heard that "kitchens and baths sell houses," and I would agree. When the spouse is attracted to a house because of the kitchen and baths, it's a much-easier sale. If she doesn't like either or both, it's gonna be a much-harder time to sell her on the house. Sure, you can tear-out things and re-do them, but that's $$$. It's easier, I think, to have the kitchen and baths acceptable, even if her or your taste is different, and you decide the 'good bones' of the house will allow you to buy it, and to re-model in the future.

One of the baths in our home that I like the best has an inlaid pattern that looks like a porcelain carpet from the entry to the toilet. The room isn't big but the tile pattern being in an 'L' pattern, from the entry to where the toilet is, just makes the design of the room look more-finished, an upgrade, however you want to put it. The perimeter tile is just plain white tile, but the 'L' pattern is black & white basketweave, and it really is appealing to most people.

Bottom line, maybe you should go ahead and just do what you chose to do initially. Do it your way, and if you think after awhile that it's not what you like, you can change it. That's probably the best idea, do it your way, live with it, and see how you like it a year down the road.

 

[steve308]

Just Rhino Line the whole thing.

 

[Shiftless]

I believe it would be possible to grind the existing shower pan and set small tiles directly onto the old pan. Reset the drain fitting to compensate for the tile thickness.
This might be easier than busting out the old pan and forming a new one.

My old pan was leaking so I had to bust it out. I replaced it with a heavy duty one piece plastic model 10 years ago. No problems.

 

[ddawg16]

You will need to seal that concrete. It is NOT water proof. Leave it wet long enough and the moisture will go to the walls.

If it was me.....(and I really wanted to keep the concrete pan)....I'd acid stain the concrete....then seal it with some of the good sealers out there.

For the walls....The Schuter system is expensive. And the jury is still out on how long it will last.

Me? Either prefab fiberglass walls....or, with bare studs exposed....30lb tar paper....1/2" HardiBacker....then tile.

Pay real close attention to your flashing where the walls meet the concrete shower pan. If you don't have a 'curb' built up, I'd look into making one. Your most likely point of water getting in will be at the bottom where the walls meet the shower pan.

And pics would help

 

[gahrajmahal]

If the concrete pan is on wooden studs ie. not the ground floor, you do need to be concerned with water saturation. I just removed one (1950's) and it had rotted the floor joists even though it was around 6" thick on tar paper. The walls were tile on 1" thinset over lath. All of the lower areas the lath was rusted and the tile just crumpled off once leveraged from behind. The tiles from 4' on up was as good as when installed and had to be knocked off with a sledge hammer.

I put cultured marble over 1/2" tile board like drywall, but made with all water resistant materials.

If your concrete pan is on a slab, I would look into having professional concrete staining guys putting on a decorative finish and their clear coat. Bet that will hold up just fine.

I would vote for the Kerdi system for whatever walls you put in. Looks good to me and has a warranty I believe.

 

[Shiftless]

If the concrete pan is on wooden studs ie. not the ground floor, you do need to be concerned with water saturation. I just removed one (1950's) and it had rotted the floor joists even though it was around 6" thick on tar paper. The walls were tile on 1" thinset over lath. All of the lower areas the lath was rusted and the tile just crumpled off once leveraged from behind. The tiles from 4' on up was as good as when installed and had to be beaten off with a sledge hammer.

I put cultured marble over 1/2" tile board like drywall, but made with all water resistant materials.

If your concrete pan is on a slab, I would look into having professional concrete staining guys putting on a decorative finish and their clear coat. Bet that will hold up just fine.

I would vote for the Kerdi system for whatever walls you put in. Looks good to me and has a warranty I believe.

Wow, You just described my old bathroom perfectly. 1951 tiled concrete pan over wooden joists. The pan leaked, rotted part of the joists... ripped out everything back to the studs...walls, floors, ceiling too. Had to go rent a big Makita electric jackhammer to demo the pan. New wiring and copper pipes while I was at it.
Concrete pans will eventually leak.
New shower walls are 30 pound paper over the studs, then hardiebacker, then thin set and porcelain tiles. Just like ddawg16 recommends.
My work was 10 years ago...no problems.

 

[ddawg16]

If you want to know what it looks like when a concrete shower pan is built over studs....without proper sealing?

I had to take out 2 walls.....and rebuild a 10' x 14' section of flooring

 

[James-W]

Wow! That was really nasty! Must have been a major undertaking. None of my business, but if you don't mine my asking, from start to finish, what did that project cost?

 

[gahrajmahal]

Ddawg16 & shiftless, yep, that is exactly how this job went for me. I was working for some older friends of mine while they were away for the summer and your photos are what their project looked like and consisted of. I'll put up some photos later. On the surface it looks ok, but over time the tile joints seep and fail. I bet my own tile on cement backer board is seeping now that it is 10 plus years old. That is on my to do list, remove all the old wall grout with my Fein tool and diamond grit blade, then replace it. Avoiding it because it is a **** job.

As far as cost, my friends spent around $5000 on supplies + my labor, which was bargain price, but I could work when I wanted, then drop the tools and come back the next day without cleaning up and dragging the tools back and forth. Most of their cost was the expensive glass doors and cultured marble (5 piece) made to order and 6 weeks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Buy a fiberglass (plastic) shower kit. Includes walls. The good ones aren't bad looking.

 

[Shiftless]

Wow! That was really nasty! Must have been a major undertaking. None of my business, but if you don't mine my asking, from start to finish, what did that project cost?

Mine looked WAY worse than that. I had 2 floor joists that were almost half gone with the rot from years of wetness. Proper materials and techniques are critical for showers.

Grout is not waterproof.
In my humble opinion, going to all the trouble of replacing grout is just buying a short amount of time. Much better to replace the tile and backer board and start over again. Plus you get the benefit of brand new fresh looking tile in perhaps a more attractive color or pattern.

 

[bherren]

A little update: I finished most of the demo of my bath. First, I stand corrected on my comment about the tile not leaking. As you can see, it looks like the tile leaked through on the block wall. I noticed it first when demoing wall tile along the block wall. Water and mold had wicked about a foot out from the shower. In the pic you may notice some of the firring strips gone on the left. Anyway - I am just curious if anyone feels as if this is worth saving or opinions on how you would finish it. Thanks again!