shrink sleeve -vs-black electric tape

[Rich1028]

shrink sleeve -vs-black electric tape
I used shrink Sleeve on a electrical conection that I made.
first I stripped the wires,then soldered them and then I shrink sleeved it.
or should I have used black tape?
or something else?
I was hooking up a light and fan over the stove.
stove hood is what I think there called.

or should I haved used these instead?

 

[Worsedog]

The picture.

 

[Gary S]

I spent 40+ years in the electronics industry. We used shrink sleeving for wire repairs on electronics, but never on 120 or 240 volt wiring. For high voltage wiring, I use only UL approved connections. If it doesn't have the UL stamp, I refuse to use it in my house or garage wiring.
The shrink sleeving I have in my toolbox doesn't have any UL stamp on it, and my solder doesn't either, so it is an easy choice for me.

 

[Rich1028]

thanks guys!!!
I knew I should of asked in here before I did this.

 

[Provincial]

3M makes shrink tubing rated for up to 600V electrical insulating. You splice the wires using an approved connector (crimped **** splice, screw-type splice, etc.) and then use the shrink tubing instead of tape for the insulating layer. This stuff is rated for underground splice repairs, and has a sticky compound inside to seal the joint. It is sold by electrical supply houses.

The shrink tubing is used instead of electrical (and mastic) tape to insulate the properly spliced wire connection. Solder is not an approved method of splicing electrical wires.

 

[mike_s]

I would think that stranded wire could easily poke through shrink wrap.

They won't poke through those plastic wire nuts.

 

[Ark]

In electrical circuits all parts must be UL listed for it's intended use. In the NEC the word must means required.
Good luck!

 

[larry_g]

In electrical circuits all parts must be UL listed for it's intended use. In the NEC the word must means required.
Good luck!

That sir is just wrong. There are many labs outside underwriters that certify parts. Get out of the NEC and the states and UL may not even be recoginized.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Norcal]

In electrical circuits all parts must be UL listed for it's intended use. In the NEC the word must means required.
Good luck!

That sir is just wrong. There are many labs outside underwriters that certify parts. Get out of the NEC and the states and UL may not even be recoginized.

lg
no neat sig line

The term NRTL, Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, applies, there are quite a few that fit that tag, FM, CSA, are just a couple. (Factory Mutual, Canadian Standards Association). UL is not the only game in town.

 

[larry_g]

The term NRTL, Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory, applies, there are quite a few that fit that tag, FM, CSA, are just a couple. (Factory Mutual, Canadian Standards Association). UL is not the only game in town.

Thank you for the correct term. Its been quite a few years since I was in the 'game'

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Alchymist]

I've taken apart numerous appliances where solder and heat shrink were used......

 

[ddawg16]

Depends on the application.

As noted....heat shrink is not rated for 600Vac....though you frequently see it used on connections inside an appliance....typically where a wire connects to a switch or circuit board....and I believe its more for strain relief then ckt protection/isolation.

I believe the issue with solder is that if the wire gets hot, it can melt the solder..additionally, solder is not a good choice for solid wire. Stranded...yes...but not solid. It just mechanically does not hold as well as a wire nut....

Real world? I doubt what you did will ever be a problem.

 

[Motofixxer]

Use the wire nuts like the pic, and make sure to twist until the wires themselves are actually twisted together a bit. That way it can't pull apart easy.

 

[GTVi]

Just as a reference in Australia for 240V applications we use a similar type of connector, instead of twist its has a screw. Called Blue Point Connectors.

In all high voltage applications, its best to avoid as many breaks/joins as possible. Always use as much wire as necessary to do the job instead of introducing a junction.

I would only use solder and heat shrink on low voltage DC circuits.

 

[foolishpride]

Depends on the application.

As noted....heat shrink is not rated for 600Vac....though you frequently see it used on connections inside an appliance....

Real world? I doubt what you did will ever be a problem.

Actually, there is heat shrink rated up to 35 KV insulation.

 

[Zelatore]

Oddly, I come from an electronics background and we would NEVER use wire nuts. Just seeing them on a job was an instant FAIL. Same goes for crimp connectors. Solder and heat shrink were the only acceptable answers.

Now I'm in the marine business, and crimp connectors are the standard. In fact, solder isn't allowed per coast guard code as a primary connection. Must be a mechanical connection, though solder is allowed as as a secondary.

I know wire nuts are standard fare in home wiring, but it seems odd to me. Then again, solid core wire is common in that application where we use fine strand tinned wire in marine and electronics applications.

I guess the root of all my rambling is...uh...different horses for differnt courses.

 

[dave67fd]

I would only use solder and heat shrink on low voltage DC circuits.

Solder can be used at any voltage level. It all depends on the application. It is although usually only used in the electronic industy with stranded wire. Solid wire is used in the electronic industry but usually in much smaller wire gauges. Some electrical appliances and lighting do come with stranded wire to mate with solid wire were wire nuts are still the norm. I have used solder on 3000v high voltage circuits in radio and tv applications.

In contol systems we build most all customer specifications do not allow wire nuts, **** splices or solder joints no matter what the voltage. Connections must be made via terminal blocks. Wire nuts are typically frowned upon in any application other than 480/240/120volt building wiring. Any other signal has to be terminated in a more reliable fashion.

They are commonly used in building wiring as an alternative to terminal blocks or soldering conductors together because they are cleaner, faster, and allow subsequent removal for future rework. You also wouldn't typically use them in high vibration areas although we do use them on motors but lock them on with a couple wraps of electrical tape.

 

[Alchymist]

When all else fails, a soldered heat shrinked Western Union splice.....

 

[Trey T]

twist the wire and cap it.

 

[ishiboo]

I had to splice my service entrance cable today due to one hot leg being completely corroded through. (Original cloth/rubber type copper) NEC is fine with splicing a service entrance, as well as using heat shrink, the only requirements were that it was designed for the purpose, and the heat shrink was rated for the same voltage/temperature or higher than the conductors.

Only way to do it with locally available parts was with a heat shrink splice kit. It's designed specifically for splices of high voltage parts, the shrink is much thicker than the stuff you normally see.

I have two of these in a 8x8 junction box, with a 0000-#6 splice connecting the neutrals as the #2 neutral would not fit in the #2 connector as it's stranded differently than the hots. (SE-U)

Rich should have used a wire nut

 

[MBfreak]

Heat shrink to insulate cables. Great for low voltages, at lest sometimes.

There are a number of reputable companies that sell splicing/terminating kits for cables up to at least 36 kV, where the stress cone is a special kind of heatshrink tubing and the outer protective tube is a more standard variety. They are applied using a propane torch to shrink.
But heat shrink tubing has no elasticity!. When the cabe expands in high load conditions, so does the heat shrink tubing. Cable then contracts when it cools off, but the heat shrink layers stay at their inflated size. This is a real problem , the stress cone tubing starts to produce partial discharges due to air and the external tubing lets in water, dust.

So, anybody that wants to use heat shrink tubing to insulate/weatherproof a below 1 kV cable splice should at least use the stuff that has a thin film of glue on the inside, that melts and bonds very strongly during a correctly done shrink operation. This is a good solution.

And for those splicing or terminating MV cables, use slip over stress semiconducting cones designed for the cable, and do not fall in the " Raychem " trap.

Ola

 

[theoldwizard1]

Depends on the application.

... I believe it (shrint tube) is more for strain relief then ckt protection/isolation

Most shrink tube does not add much "strain relief", unless it the the "marine" style that has a softer lower melting point that bonds to the joint and the insulation,

I believe the issue with solder is that if the wire gets hot, it can melt the solder..

Older lead based solder (non-plumbing) was 60/40 or 70/30 lead/tin. It melted at 180°-190°C. UL1569 is hook up wire is only rated for 105°C. THHN/THWN is only rated for 90°C. The insulation will melt before the solder !

additionally, solder is not a good choice for solid wire. Stranded...yes...but not solid.

Concur !

 

[Oggy]

Rich, I think one of the key things that everyone is leaving out, is in the future your range hood is going to need to be replaced. It's inevitable, and because of this the best choice would have been to use a wire nut. Wire nuts are easily removed and replaced, had the appliance not worked you would have been stuck redoing all of your soldering. Think of it this way if you're repairing something, solder and heat shrink. If you're replacing something like a hard-wired appliance, or lighting fixture, you're going to want to use wire nuts.

The average homeowner will never need to use solder and heat shrink on their home's electrical wiring.

disclaimer: I am not an electrician, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[Rich1028]

ok I guess I should of added that I did not hook this up to A single strand wire that would be in the wall.
I added a wire that I pluged into a wall outlet.
the wire on both the stove hood,and the wire to the outlet is stranded wire.
I did not want to hasle with fishing a solid wire up the inside wall so I used a 14 gauge wire to a outlet plug.
so it's like pluging in a appliance,the wire is not hidden in the wall.
I hope that this helps to explaing things.

 

[housey]

ok I guess I should of added that I did not hook this up to A single strand wire that would be in the wall.
I added a wire that I pluged into a wall outlet.
the wire on both the stove hood,and the wire to the outlet is stranded wire.
I did not want to hasle with fishing a solid wire up the inside wall so I used a 14 gauge wire to a outlet plug.
so it's like pluging in a appliance,the wire is not hidden in the wall.
I hope that this helps to explaing things.

So you have spliced the cable, into to another cable that just plugs into a GPO? Why can't you just run a cable right from the stove hood to the outlet if you are going to do it that way?

I know in the Australian/New Zealand wiring rules atleast (AS NZ 3000), soldering connections for use in mains power is not permitted. My understanding is that its not allowed as if too little solder is used it could form a dry/unreliable joint, or if it is moved around/has force applied to it it could break or form a dry joint, and a dry joint would likely cause a hot connection which could cause the solder to melt and spread to other surfaces. The heatshrink itself would probably be ok although if their were any sharp bits, or strands poking outwards after you soldered it they could puncture through the heatshrink.

Either way it sounds very dodgy to me. I would definately redo the connection if it were me and if you want it plugged into a GPO, just run one single cable from the appliance to the GPO.

Most shrink tube does not add much "strain relief", unless it the the "marine" style that has a softer lower melting point that bonds to the joint and the insulation,


Older lead based solder (non-plumbing) was 60/40 or 70/30 lead/tin. It melted at 180°-190°C. UL1569 is hook up wire is only rated for 105°C. THHN/THWN is only rated for 90°C. The insulation will melt before the solder !



Concur !

Thats only the temperature the insulation is rated for use at, meaning it would be capable of operating at a higher temperature to account for it increasing in temperature due to heating from electrical resistance, and would have a small built in safety/error margin. Not to mention, a hot connection is just that, hot where the connection is made. If the connection isn't made properly or it becomes loose, the solder could very easily reach melting point before the insulation burns

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thats only the temperature the insulation is rated for use at, meaning it would be capable of operating at a higher temperature to account for it increasing in temperature due to heating from electrical resistance, and would have a small built in safety/error margin.

IMHO, 80°C (difference between insulation rating and solder melting point) is NOT "small" ! Using lower grade hookup wire it is easy to melt the insulation before melting the solder, especially with the new "no lead" solders.

Not to mention, a hot connection is just that, hot where the connection is made. If the connection isn't made properly or it becomes loose, the solder could very easily reach melting point before the insulation burns

You are contradicting yourself. A soldered connection can NOT become loose, unless it has already failed.

If you are getting localized heat at the connection, it IS a poor quality connection. Heat will radiate out from the connection and cause insulation failure near the connection, likely before the solder melts.

I still stand by my statement. The insulation will start to fail long before the solder melts.

 

[housey]

IMHO, 80°C (difference between insulation rating and solder melting point) is NOT "small" ! Using lower grade hookup wire it is easy to melt the insulation before melting the solder, especially with the new "no lead" solders.


You are contradicting yourself. A soldered connection can NOT become loose, unless it has already failed.

If you are getting localized heat at the connection, it IS a poor quality connection. Heat will radiate out from the connection and cause insulation failure near the connection, likely before the solder melts.

I still stand by my statement. The insulation will start to fail long before the solder melts.

If the connection does crack or become lose that doesn't mean it will completely fail, current will still flow through it but it may become a point of high resistance and heat up. If it does, the insulation in the immediate vicinity of the connection will be heatshrink, which depending on what sort he has used could have an operating range anywhere up to 200C.

Anywho I got sidetracked a bit from my original point. Whether the insulation fails before the solder melts is largely irrelevant as either occuring has the potential to cause serious damage to property and/or injury. The original poster said himself "so it's like pluging in a appliance,the wire is not hidden in the wall." if its exposed and being moved around then solder is again an inappropriate solution and could be prone to failing eventually.

I just can't see why you wouldn't just re-run the cable as one length, or at the very least spend $0.15 and 2 minutes and cut out the soldered connection and redo it using BP's or wire nuts/whatever they are known as in America.