Siding Installation Issue

[coe]

Hey all. Constructing a 30x40 building and have gotten to the siding installation phase and am running into an issue. I am using LP Smart Side lap siding. My kids and I spent this afternoon on the 1st 30' wall getting the starter strips and the first row done. We can run a 4' level across the entirety of the 1st row and we are dead on. I decided to use a pair of PacTool Gecko LP siding installation tools made for the 3/8" siding I am installing so that I can work alone when needed. Set the gauge to have a 1" overlap and everything looks good until I put a level on it. We are constantly having to push/pull on one end or the other to get the siding to what appears level. Move on to the next 12' section and the height alignment can be off as much as 1/4".

I'm not a professional and don't claim to be. Just trying to save some green as this project has already gone way above budget. I've only ever installed vinyl siding before and it turned out looking pretty darn good. Am I putting too much emphasis on trying to make each piece level or should I just rely on the Gecko tool to do its job? If I set the tools and lay a piece in place, I can measure a 1" overlap as recommended. Put a level on it and things go awry.

Thanks for any input/suggestions,
~Ron

 

[The Cobbler]

I think you would do better with chalk lines along the top edge and line up to that

 

[cgrutt]

I'm not familiar with the Gecko clamps but could they be introducing error into the equation, either gauges are not exactly equal or could they be moving slightly when you clamp them down? A seemingly small difference on one side can cause significant error when run out several feet. Are the smart siding boards consistently the same width across entire board? Is it possible the first course is level at top but unlevel at bottom? I'm assuming the clamps are referencing off bottom edge of the smart siding to bottom edge that you are installing. Is the starter course showing as being level with a chalk line across entire wall? Use a longer level, laser level or snap a chalk line as suggested above.

 

[larry_g]

Have you confirmed that your individual boards have parallel sides? I was doing decking and found boards to vary in width. When checking level are you checking both the top and bottom of the board? This may also show you something.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[coe]

I think you would do better with chalk lines along the top edge and line up to that

You're probably right.

 

[coe]

I'm not familiar with the Gecko clamps but could they be introducing error into the equation, either gauges are not exactly equal or could they be moving slightly when you clamp them down? A seemingly small difference on one side can cause significant error when run out several feet. Are the smart siding boards consistently the same width across entire board? Is it possible the first course is level at top but unlevel at bottom? I'm assuming the clamps are referencing off bottom edge of the smart siding to bottom edge that you are installing. Is the starter course showing as being level with a chalk line across entire wall? Use a longer level, laser level or snap a chalk line as suggested above.

The clamps look to be identical but I'll check again tomorrow. We measured a few boards to see if they were consistent end-to-end and they varied no more than 1/16" (worst case of the few that we did check). I'll check for level at the bottom as well as at the top. Yes, the starter course line up perfectly with my initial chalk line and this course is perfectly level, this is what is really confusing me. You are correct in your description of how they work.

 

[coe]

Have you confirmed that your individual boards have parallel sides? I was doing decking and found boards to vary in width. When checking level are you checking both the top and bottom of the board? This may also show you something.

lg
no neat sig line

Will confirm again tomorrow, if the weather cooperates.

 

[PCustoms]

A 4' level on a 30' wall isn't telling you much.

How are you using it? I'm assuming the siding has some sag to it until it's fully nailed.

Are you chasing a bow?

 

[coe]

A 4' level on a 30' wall isn't telling you much.

How are you using it? I'm assuming the siding has some sag to it until it's fully nailed.

Are you chasing a bow?

I agree on the 4' level being too short. We're sliding it along the top edge (slowly) after setting it in the Gecko tools and looking for any change. No bow.

 

[PCustoms]

I agree on the 4' level being too short. We're sliding it along the top edge (slowly) after setting it in the Gecko tools and looking for any change. No bow.

I don't see how you would see a bow with a 4' level though.

How are you seeing the siding out of level?

 

[coe]

I don't see how you would see a bow with a 4' level though.

How are you seeing the siding out of level?

Maybe that's where I'm thinking too much...since the 4' level won't give an accurate picture, maybe we just snap some lines off the 1st course and continue and throw out the level?!

 

[coe]

Just talked to my builder who did the cement siding on my house and he said he'd stop by and take a look. He called to ask an unrelated question (what timing). I'll post what he finds/suggests. Thanks all for the help/suggestions!

 

[jack stand]

You're probably right.

Be sure to carry your lines (on the corners where you layout your courses) "around" the corner. Make a heavy pencil mark 12" long. Doing this ahead of installation of whatever you like for the actual corners will simplify tidy, equal course matching.

 

[coe]

Be sure to carry your lines (on the corners where you layout your courses) "around" the corner. Make a heavy pencil mark 12" long. Doing this ahead of installation of whatever you like for the actual corners will simplify tidy, equal course matching.

Great tip! Thanks!

 

[coe]

My builder came out and placed a laser level across the first course and said, "looks good" and to ditch the 4' level for this project We used the Gecko tool to install another 3 courses and re-checked with the laser and were dead on. Added chalk lines to the rest of the building as suggested. Thanks all for the suggestions. Now I need this cold blast to go away!

 

[karoc]

I hate asking but are both gages adjusted same? I’ve use these gages and for me seem to work pretty good. But I would run three rolls then as Cobbler suggested I would pop a line.

 

[Stevee]

I am a DIY'er and have sided my house and garage with fiber cement lap siding using Gecko gauges. All in all, it came out pretty damn good....and level! Definitely carry your lines around the corners. As for the gecko gauges, I have had them move/slip a little bit on me - so keep an eye out for that. Also set them apart so the piece of siding sits flat/level in them and does not bow. Most definitely worthwhile if you can get your hands on a laser level.

 

[coe]

I hate asking but are both gages adjusted same? I’ve use these gages and for me seem to work pretty good. But I would run three rolls then as Cobbler suggested I would pop a line.

Yes they are. They use a bolt/nut in pre-drilled holes to set the height.

 

[coe]

I am a DIY'er and have sided my house and garage with fiber cement lap siding using Gecko gauges. All in all, it came out pretty damn good....and level! Definitely carry your lines around the corners. As for the gecko gauges, I have had them move/slip a little bit on me - so keep an eye out for that. Also set them apart so the piece of siding sits flat/level in them and does not bow. Most definitely worthwhile if you can get your hands on a laser level.

Yeah, they don't seem to clamp down quite as tight as I would like but my guess is that is to prevent damage to the material.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Used those gauges on my siding, and they worked great! Only way it can be done solo.
Only time I had an issue was when I had a gauge not positioned correctly.

No matter how you do it, reference measurements should always be done to the soffit to ensure it will "look" straight when you get there.

 

[Stelzer]

I've used Gecko gauges to side houses solo. Love em.

Before using, mark the location of where each gauge sets the board to confirm there's no variance. My guess is there is and that's what throwing you off. Nothing wrong with snapping some chalk lines every few feet to confirm you're on target. Also nothing wrong with taking 5 seconds to confirm each board is level before nailing.

 

[Skooterj]

I sided my garage this summer with LP and Geckos. The Geckos make for quick work, but are not square by any means. I checked every 3 rows or so and adjusted as needed. Something about the locking mechanism of the Gecko makes it not perfectly the same every time. They are great when installing quickly or by yourself, but I would not call them accurate.

 

[PopcornSutton]

A water level kit would do you well. You can set your corners to be level and even mark the center for a check/reference as you go. Cheap insurance.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm working on a project that will use LP lap in the next few months and already have the geckos on site. My plan is to make a story pole denoting the top of each course of siding and to place marks on the building at each corner plus midspan so I can both plan layout and have a quick check while hanging it.

 

[jack stand]

Mike sometimes you're 3 points will not agree with each other measuring off of the foundation or sill. It's really best to snap lines corner to corner and over 30', have someone "thumb" the line while very taught then snap each side of the thumb. It's usually a safe bet to follow the building (for "eye" level vs dead level. You'll get in trouble at the soffit if there's a difference. An inch or two will hide on a 30-40' wall with the exception of a huge combination window that are usually installed with a level.
Tajima sells a chalk box with a very nice sharp narrow line left.

 

[mike93lx]

Mike sometimes you're 3 points will not agree with each other measuring off of the foundation or sill. It's really best to snap lines corner to corner and over 30', have someone "thumb" the line while very taught then snap each side of the thumb. It's usually a safe bet to follow the building (for "eye" level vs dead level. You'll get in trouble at the soffit if there's a difference. An inch or two will hide on a 30-40' wall with the exception of a huge combination window that are usually installed with a level.
Tajima sells a chalk box with a very nice sharp narrow line left.

I'd start with a level mark around the whole building and go from there, not just measure off a point on the bottom of each wall. Good point for sure