Silly Hypothetical Question

[freudianfloyd]

I know enough about AC power to get by, but I am far from an expert. This question is just something that popped into my head the other day and figured I would ask the experts.

Would AC power work on the moon? Let's say that you had a house on the moon and a power supply running to a breaker box. Could you ground the box by driving a grounding rod into the moon? The moon does not have a magnetic field like the earth, and I am sure there are other differences, and I know an "earth" is not literal when talking about the ground wire. Are all grounds created equal, or is there something special about an earth ground vs. any other planet?

I know the question sounds pretty simple, but I am just curious.

 

[Farmall Cub]

No moisture for the ground to be conductive?

 

[rockwithjason]

you may have to drive many rods or use a grounding grid but yes it would. the design would depend on the resistance of the soil

 

[Milton Shaw]

The extension cord to run the house would be hard to find one that long. No power generators, no hydro power on the moon so the rates would be really high in the sky. No moisture is the killer without it there is no current flow to ground. Mars is a different story if it is red because its ferrus oxide (rust) then it probably will conduct for a ground to work. But there again the extension cord would be a killer.

 

[hh76]

Earth ground relies on the earth to be conductive, and services here require a specific grounding grid to make the connection.

On the moon, you would have to figure out what the resistance of the "moon ground", and make adjustments based on that. Worst case, you would have to run the "moon ground" back to the source of power. With a potable generator, I would think an extension cord plugged in would work the same as here.

 

[Norcal]

Electricity is trying to return to it's source & it will take all paths including the earth, relying on a ground rod to clear a fault is a really good way to kill someone.

 

[nadogail]

Assuming you have a source of AC, you could adopt an ungrounded system as used on ships.

Ungrounded systems, properly installed and maintained, have safety advantages over the grounded systems used ashore.

If you contact a conductor in a grounded system, you become the return path to the source.

In a properly functioning ungrounded system the hull is not the return path, so your risk is minimized. There are of course generally small leakage currents caused by insulation leakage or capacitive coupling.

 

[teamextreme]

Power would work fine. I believe you should be consulting the MEC to answer this question, however.

 

[freudianfloyd]

Thanks for clearing that up guys. It was just something I was curious about. I knew that there was more to a ground than simply connecting to earth, I just wasnt sure what it was. Needless to say, it doesnt sound like it would be as simple as driving a copper rid into the ground even if there was a power station on the moon.

 

[Pwrgeek]

Actually all of electricity would work just fine without any grounds. It would just be dangerous as all get out. I install systems in floating configurations all the time for critical equipment. In these systems (which are almost always three phase) the first line to go to ground just causes an alarm. It's only the second one that causes a fault.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I know enough about AC power to get by, but I am far from an expert. This question is just something that popped into my head the other day and figured I would ask the experts.

Would AC power work on the moon? Let's say that you had a house on the moon and a power supply running to a breaker box. Could you ground the box by driving a grounding rod into the moon? The moon does not have a magnetic field like the earth, and I am sure there are other differences, and I know an "earth" is not literal when talking about the ground wire. Are all grounds created equal, or is there something special about an earth ground vs. any other planet?

I know the question sounds pretty simple, but I am just curious.

A grounding electrode doesnt serve the purpose that u think it does.

The main purpose is to ground lightning.

And no, grounding electrodes arent for clearing fault currents and a breaker wont clear a fault through a grounding electrode.

Read this. It will clear up any confusion u may have:

http://www.electriciantalk.com/articles/the-confusion-of-the-term-grounding/

Actually all of electricity would work just fine without any grounds. It would just be dangerous as all get out. I install systems in floating configurations all the time for critical equipment. In these systems (which are almost always three phase) the first line to go to ground just causes an alarm. It's only the second one that causes a fault.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have u ever worked on corner grounded delta systems? Those are real fun!

 

[BillK]

I believe you should be consulting the MEC .

 

[FTG-05]

There's already a place right here on earth that is *extremely* difficult to get a decent grounding electrode with low impedance to ground: Thule Air Base, Greenland.

Due to the depth of the permafrost and the fact that frozen ground does not conduct electricity very well if at all, they've always had problems with grounding electrodes at that site. They used to run grounding electrodes to the salt water bays but the ice flows would tear them up and out in no more than one season, rendering them useless.

Thule AB has one other unusual environmental attribute: Lightning has never been seen nor documented there.

In the final analysis, they no longer worry about a good ground electrode, they just ensure that all metal and grounding elements are tied together, including but not limited to, the Tech area (where the BMEWS phased array radar is located and 13 miles from the main base) that is connected to the main base power plant.

I still have a report - I think - on this phenomenon from my time there during a site visit in late 2004. It was authored by Raytheon several decades ago IRC.

 

[Dragfluid]

It only took the 4th post to mention an extension cord.

 

[Falcon67]

You could use a Ufer ground on Earth, so maybe use a Moofer ground on the Moon.

 

[Pwrgeek]

Have u ever worked on corner grounded delta systems? Those are real fun!

Ah the "Wild leg." I've worked on just about every configuration imaginable. You find some "interesting" things in old industrial / utility installations. Let's just say walk around with your hands in your pockets.

 

[Norcal]

You could use a Ufer ground on Earth, so maybe use a Moofer ground on the Moon.

Ufer was the surname of the developer of the concrete incased electrode.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ah the "Wild leg." I've worked on just about every configuration imaginable. You find some "interesting" things in old industrial / utility installations. Let's just say walk around with your hands in your pockets.

negative. Im not talking about wild leg/stinger leg/high leg deltas with 208v between hot and neutral, which is center grounded.

Im talking about a corner grounded delta, where one of the phase legs is intentionally grounded. Another name for it is grounded b- leg delta. U must use straight rated breakers...

 

[MBfreak]

It will most certainly work. The one thing I do not know is how solar storms ( aka magnetic storms ) influence the moon. On the northern hemisphere up here in Sweden there are special considerations due to solar storms. It applies mostly to large overhead line networks. There was a large scale breakdown in Canada many years ago, large transformers and generators were damaged. Cabled systems or shorter OH lines are not likely to be affected.

The " ground " thru the planet is varying wildly between regions on earth and probably also on the moon.

Some parts of Sweden has large areas of exposed granite over which OH power lines run. It can be difficult to detect a ground fault if one phase wire breaks and falls down on the granite rock. We have special protections for that. I have heard of similar problems in the US on harvested and tilled Texas flat land. An agricultural US univeristy has developed a special ground fault relay for that.

What the moon surface offers I have no idea. Interesting question but it will be a while before it needs to be answered I guess. I also believe that the atmosphere on the moon will be a challenge for insulation at higher voltages. I am sure NASA has all the answers already!

Ola

 

[aandpdan]

AC power does/did work on the moon. The Lunar Modules had ac inverters in them to power some the equipment.

 

[Zeke]

Extension cord? Don't be silly. Solar panels. And why AC other than for a hypothetical question? DC all the way. Your moon system would be local so no need for AC.

We should probably be doing more of that here.