Silly question about Romex

[Sychotix57]

I want to wire my sheet metal garage, I have over 200 feet of 12gauge Romex laying around and didn't know if I could just run the Romex through the open ridges between the sheet metal and metal tube studs. Don't curse me for my ignorance.

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[perrykw]

I want to wire my sheet metal garage, I have over 200 feet of 12gauge Romex laying around and didn't know if I could just run the Romex through the open ridges between the sheet metal and metal tube studs. Don't curse me for my ignorance.

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Depends. I will start by saying I'm NOT an electrician, so if one says something different than what I say, go with them LOL.

Now, having said that, it somewhat depends on your locality. I know for sure that Romex has to be "protected. There are also certain guidelines regarding how often it has to be stapled/fastened for strain relief. If your walls are going to remain open, I would use THHN in conduit so you know it's protected.

Maybe someone more qualified will chime in.

 

[Kaizen]

for metal studs I've seen plastic pop in inserts that you run wire through.

 

[Sychotix57]

for metal studs I've seen plastic pop in inserts that you run wire through.

I'm talking about the square tubing. It's like an enclosed carport.

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[Kaizen]

Oh...around here it has to be not exposed. Besides how would you transition to boxes? Emt would be what I would use but you can't put Romex in it


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[Big Bad Dad]

Romex is not rated to be left exposed and unprotected in a living or work area.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

No,the 1st time somebody zips a sheet metal screw in from the outside and hits the wire you'll understand

 

[Falcon67]

Oh...around here it has to be not exposed. Besides how would you transition to boxes? Emt would be what I would use but you can't put Romex in it


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I put it in EMT anyway, in places where it would be exposed to a machine that might throw something at it. I'd map the place out with 3/4 EMT and just run your wire. You'll chew up 200' pretty quick anyway.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Oh...around here it has to be not exposed. Besides how would you transition to boxes? Emt would be what I would use but you can't put Romex in it


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Incorrect.

 

[D45]

Romex is not rated to be left exposed and unprotected in a living or work area.

So in a garage, you are saying that Romex cannot be used at all?

 

[Kaizen]

Incorrect.

Why? Because it's not outside? Do interior garages count as indoors if detached?


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[dave89iroc]

So in a garage, you are saying that Romex cannot be used at all?

romex in ok in a garage if run through studs, as it is intended to be covered by interior sheeting, etc., but can't be surface mounted unprotected , if surface mounted, it needs to be in conduit



for the OP, I'd just run EMT once and be done with it

 

[D45]

I have Romex (exposed) all over my basement and Romex (exposed) all over my garage

I have seen it this way in dozens and dozens of houses

 

[Bert_]

I have Romex (exposed) all over my basement and Romex (exposed) all over my garage

I have seen it this way in dozens and dozens of houses

This^

Romex simply can't be run where subject to damage.Whether or not something is subject to damage is completely open to interpretation.

I think most would agree exposed romex at say 4' high IS subject to damage and not allowed but at 8' it may be fine.

 

[Marctrees]

I have Romex (exposed) all over my basement and Romex (exposed) all over my garage

I have seen it this way in dozens and dozens of houses

Yup.

I do not know what current NEC says, but that's how I did it for years as a contractor in Twin Cities.

But that was 25 yrs ago.

Wylie can chime in if Code allows exposed in garage nowadays different.

There always have been mandates on stapling distance, running boards, areas exposed to damage, etc.

IMHO, ... For the OP structure, EMT (or PVC) is best way to go.

Mostly because there are no really good ways to strap the cable in that construction style.

Again, current Code I don't know, been away from it too long. Marc

 

[Cmreschke]

Exposed is ok normally, subject to damage is not. As stated above that's open to interpretation. If run horizontally at 4 ft I'd say probably no go more often than not. If run vertically then I'd say lower than 18 inches is probably a no go. That's just me and what I've installed in Michigan legally.

Romex IS allowed in any and all conduits when the conduits are installed where romex is allowed (not outside).

A detached garage is still considered inside. The wiring to get to the garage is not allowed to be romex, but, the wiring in the garage can be.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Might be able to put a 2x between studs at or near the roof. 4" square j box on metal post. 1/2" conduit down to working height. Outlet/device there. 2x would protect Romex from outside protrusions and give you a way to attach the Romex. Use solid thhn or similar in conduit.

 

[tjdux]

Not a sparky but agree with the exposed romex. Family handiman even had a semi current article about exposed romex in garage. May be worth a look up OP.

I do it in both my garage and basement. It has a lot to do with if you're smart/carefull enough to not damage it.

A second point, a good sheet metal screw will go right through most conduit anyways so how much protection are we really thinking there is there? Personally i prefer my unfinished section of basement where i can just see the exposed wiring.

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[Matt Matt]

Romax can be somewhat exposed, but never to the Direct outdoor elements. A 1 1/4 inch screw should never be able to hit the live line from either side if completely buried to stud. If it is exposed to the elements without threat a visual plastic (pvc) conduit can be used. If it is buried less, steel conduit should be used (and in some high-voltage situations, steel conduit is required always but you won't be able to use Romax as it is usually only rated for 300 V). Some inspectors allow for steel plate guarding if buried less than the requirement. If you're doing a new wire install, you should see what your inspector is requiring in your area.

Edit; I just went back and saw your picture, you have one of two choices from you can surface mount PVC conduit or surface mount metal conduit to the inside studs, but, if you ever insulate and finish the inside the conduit, it still has to remain surface mount on top of the finished product. But your local inspector will help you further.

 

[Matt Matt]

So in a garage, you are saying that Romex cannot be used at all?

Romax can be used 100% in a garage wall so long as a three-quarter inch hole is dead centre of the 3 1/2 stud. This applies to unfinished basement as well.

A few years ago, I was the stud'er for a Wendy's restaurant in Cleveland. The owner wanted cleaning plugs in the island. All the 2 1/2 inch studs (we installed), we had to either run Metal conduit through or replace with 3 1/2 inch studs. Surface mount was not the owners option for us in the restaurant. The inspector caught us at the right time with the right question.

 

[Norcal]

NM cable "Romex®" cannot be used where subject to physical damage, which around here is defined up to the 8' level. IMHO, there is no way to make NM cable look decent in a metal structure, it looks dorky.

 

[ddawg16]

Romax can be used 100% in a garage wall so long as a three-quarter inch hole is dead centre of the 3 1/2 stud. This applies to unfinished basement as well.

A few years ago, I was the stud'er for a Wendy's restaurant in Cleveland. The owner wanted cleaning plugs in the island. All the 2 1/2 inch studs (we installed), we had to either run Metal conduit through or replace with 3 1/2 inch studs. Surface mount was not the owners option for us in the restaurant. The inspector caught us at the right time with the right question.

You can put the hole anywhere you want....that is what nail plates are for.

 

[Matt Matt]

Romax can be somewhat exposed, but never to the Direct outdoor elements. A 1 1/4 inch screw should never be able to hit the live line from either side if completely buried to stud. If it is exposed to the elements without threat a visual plastic (pvc) conduit can be used. If it is buried less, steel conduit should be used (and in some high-voltage situations, steel conduit is required always but you won't be able to use Romax as it is usually only rated for 300 V). Some inspectors allow for steel plate guarding if buried less than the requirement. If you're doing a new wire install, you should see what your inspector is requiring in your area.

Edit; I just went back and saw your picture, you have one of two choices from you can surface mount PVC conduit or surface mount metal conduit to the inside studs, but, if you ever insulate and finish the inside the conduit, it still has to remain surface mount on top of the finished product. But your local inspector will help you further.

You can put the hole anywhere you want....that is what nail plates are for.

I thought I covered that in my earlier post. Please read red.

 

[ddawg16]

I thought I covered that in my earlier post. Please read red.

I was responding to this statement....

Romax can be used 100% in a garage wall so long as a three-quarter inch hole is dead centre of the 3 1/2 stud. This applies to unfinished basement as well.

 

[ddawg16]

And it can be a 1/2" hole...

 

[Matt Matt]

And it can be a 1/2" hole...

Sure It can be, but how does this help the OP? It could be a 2 inch hole, but both the electrical inspector and the building might have problems with the op situation. You might agree or disagree with me here?

 

[alfredeneuman]

(and in some high-voltage situations, steel conduit is required always but you won't be able to use Romax as it is usually only rated for 300 V). Some inspectors allow for steel plate guarding if buried less than the requirement. If you're doing a new wire install, you should see what your inspector is requiring in your area.

NM Cable (RoMEX) is required to be made up of 600 Volt rated conductors.
http://www.southwire.com/products/CuNMB.htm

All inspectors going by the NEC must accept steel nail plates when they come across them (it's in the Code).

And PVC conduit is used extensively by the utilities for high-voltage work

 

[CJ7VFR]

I want to wire my sheet metal garage, I have over 200 feet of 12gauge Romex laying around and didn't know if I could just run the Romex through the open ridges between the sheet metal and metal tube studs. Don't curse me for my ignorance.

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Are to talking about the small open area between the sheet metal walls and the back side of the metal studs? Or you talking about actually running the wire inside the metal studs? Aren't the open ridges between the sheet metal siding and studs filled with the screws that hold the siding to the studs from the outside of the building? I am not exactly sure what you are referring too when you say "open ridges".

Jim

 

[Sychotix57]

Are to talking about the small open area between the sheet metal walls and the back side of the metal studs? Or you talking about actually running the wire inside the metal studs? Aren't the open ridges between the sheet metal siding and studs filled with the screws that hold the siding to the studs from the outside of the building? I am not exactly sure what you are referring too when you say "open ridges".

Jim

The open areas between the sheet metal and studs. There are no screws through the open area.

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[Sychotix57]

Also, I plan on hanging some galvanized sheet metal on the walls. Wouldn't that mean it wouldn't be exposed then? Just trying to save some money with material I already have. Turns out I have about 300' yellow Romex and 150' of white Romex.

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[CJ7VFR]

The open areas between the sheet metal and studs. There are no screws through the open area.

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You're talking about the horizontal open areas created by the shape of the sheet metal walls?

If so, how were you thinking about attaching the romex to those areas? Cables have to be supported by some mechanical means (staples, holders, inside conduit, ect...) every 4 feet I do believe when they are run in open areas. And supported 8 to 12 inches outside a box where the cables run into the box.

Jim

 

[Sychotix57]

You're talking about the horizontal open areas created by the shape of the sheet metal walls?

If so, how were you thinking about attaching the romex to those areas? Cables have to be supported by some mechanical means (staples, holders, inside conduit, ect...) every 4 feet I do believe when they are run in open areas. And supported 8 to 12 inches outside a box where the cables run into the box.

Jim

Zip ties. [emoji28]

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[CJ7VFR]

Zip ties. [emoji28]

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How are you going to attach the zip ties to the open areas on the walls so that they could be used to hold the cables in place?

Jim

 

[Sychotix57]

How are you going to attach the zip ties to the open areas on the walls so that they could be used to hold the cables in place?

Jim

I had an electrician tell me just zip tie it to the studs....

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[Sychotix57]

So surface mount emt is the best choice or what? I'm a little confused...

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[aka Larry]

My building is constructed just like yours and the answer is EMT. The good news is EMT is cheap, and very easy to work with.

 

[Rock knocker]

Emt would be what I would use but you can't put Romex in it

Incorrect.

Why? Because it's not outside? Do interior garages count as indoors if detached?

He was commenting on your assertion that you are not allowed to run NM in conduit. There's a lot of reasons why it is difficult, it takes up too much room and is difficult to pull. But when properly sized with appropriate conduit, it is not prohibited.

It must also not be in a wet location

 

[Zeke]

You say you're going to cover the interior walls. End of topic. Run your Romex. No screws are allowed to penetrate any raceway or conduit in such a manner that they might snag the Romex or penetrate if there is vibration.

 

[Matt Matt]

NM Cable (RoMEX) is required to be made up of 600 Volt rated conductors.
http://www.southwire.com/products/CuNMB.htm

All inspectors going by the NEC must accept steel nail plates when they come across them (it's in the Code).

And PVC conduit is used extensively by the utilities for high-voltage work (defined by NEC as over 1000 volts)

I didn't realize you use NM-B to wire typical residential. NMD90?

 

[Kaizen]

He was commenting on your assertion that you are not allowed to run NM in conduit. There's a lot of reasons why it is difficult, it takes up too much room and is difficult to pull. But when properly sized with appropriate conduit, it is not prohibited.

It must also not be in a wet location

thanks I knew what he was saying. this structure looks like a carport to me. So wondering where the outdoor/indoor rule comes in. As I remember if its outside like buried it can't be used. I never would try to save a buck using romex in emt. just not worth it.