Silver soldering brass?

[MushCreek]

I'm planning to make oarlock sockets for the boat I'm building. Yeah, I can buy them, but I have the materials, and like the idea of making my own. Basically, there is a flat top plate, and a round socket section. I could assemble them with a press fit, soldering them together, or threading them and screwing them together. How strong would a soldered joint be? We're talking a round piece 7/8" in diameter, soldered into a 1/4" thick plate. How much of a torch am I going to need? Will a standard propane torch do it?

 

[mogandave]

A 7/8" round pressed perpendicular into a piece of 1/4" plate?

 

[RoninB4]

I always prefer a mechanical lock held in place by soldering/brazing. Rather depend upon the cross sectional mass and strength of material than a surface skin of filler rod for structural applications.

 

[exmaxima1]

Propane torch will not do. Possibly 3 torches would do it, but doubtful. Acetylene makes more sense, and that's what was needed to silver solder new sights onto a 1911 slide which was massively smaller than your project.

 

[MushCreek]

I'll try to post a crude sketch. The cylindrical part could be pressed, threaded, or soldered to the flat plate. There's not a huge amount of stress when rowing, but the slop in the oarlocks clacking back and forth may loosen it up over time. Of course, I could just whittle the whole thing out of a big chunk of brass, but $$$. I'm trying to use what I have. Bothe parts will be set into a block of hardwood, securing both the cylinder and the plate. I could epoxy it into the wood as well. The sockets would probably function OK without the plate at all, but I'd rather have it than not.

 

[lilredex]

Propane is not going to do it. Experiment with a couple of small steel washers to see how far it goes. I have used a butane torch to sucessfully to silver solder small parts, but switched to O-A for larger pieces. a plumbers acetylene torch might do it. You cannot solder a press fitted joint, a sliding fit is more appropiate. You need room for the solder to flow.

 

[dogdog]

not sure the strength, I have silver solder with the "harris stay silv 15" a piece of brass 1" NTP male Pex fitting that is drilled out to fit a 1/4" npt female coupling these with the black flux / 15% staysilv... they don't sell. Did it with a TS8000 torch that ran those fake mapp gas... yellow cylinder... took almost full bottle for 2 pieces.. the TS4000 didn't work. air acetylene plumber's torch I needed to switch to a bigger nozzle. the 45% / 55% silver solder flows a lot better, probably way too expensive to use @ $40-$60 per troy oz dependents where you get it from.

if the piece is not Huge... you can block some heat with some kaowool or soldering mat

 

[MushCreek]

I'm also wondering if I should just thread them together, use high strength Loc-Tite, and drill and press in a SS pin from the side. Shouldn't go anywhere. I have a 7/8-20 tap that would be a good size, or I have a 15/16-16 tap.

 

[PCustoms]

I'm also wondering if I should just thread them together, use high strength Loc-Tite, and drill and press in a SS pin from the side. Shouldn't go anywhere. I have a 7/8-20 tap that would be a good size, or I have a 15/16-16 tap.

You've just listed 3 independent methods that would each work

 

[Firebrick43]

Define silver solder. What most call silver solder is silver brazing. Something like Staysilv 56 will be just as strong as if it were made one piece "IF" its close fitting. Gaps will decrease strength. They like under .005" gaps. Strength will exceed base metal if the joint is correct.

You will need at least an acetylene/air torch if not an oxy acetylene torch as its brazing temp is 1205+

"silver bearing solder" such as staybrite 8 would still be sufficiently strong for what your doing. Its temp is much lower at 800 degrees. True solders need more surface area or a lap joint to have sufficient strength which your design does have.

I wouldn't thread it nor pin. It will weaken it more than help. Make the cylinder have a shoulder/flange on top to sit on the plate if loctite/silver bearing solder is used, not necessary if silver brazing is used. Tight fitting(push together with finger pressure) with either of the above two methods or green loctite will get you higher strength. Make sure you degrease/prime if using green loctite for the best strength.

 

[nadogail]

I know I am logged into the "Real Garage Journal" when somebody is proposing to buy hundreds or perhaps thousands of dollars in tools to build something they will use once; but they could buy for a few bucks.

 

[Firebrick43]

I know I am logged into the "Real Garage Journal" when somebody is proposing to buy hundreds or perhaps thousands of dollars in tools to build something they will use once; but they could buy for a few bucks.

An acetylene torch has so many applications, I doubt anyone here will only use it once. You can weld, braze, solder, remove tight/rusty fasteners, remove bearing races, and the list goes on and on. Don't have to buy one either, many have friend/family with one. Would only take a few minutes. Or could even send it to me if needed brazed.

 

[mark-NJ]

TIG braze...that's what I'd do.

 

[no704]

Or you can get a mapp/oxygen rig withe the small disposable bottles for about $80. Last time I checked.

 

[The Cobbler]

I have a small set of tanks. owned Acetylene B and a small owned oxygen tank. not used the oxygen in years , but the C tank gets used several times per yr for plumbing jobs. just dragged it out today for a project . dried & cracked o-rings on the torch tips , replaced them with my stash. hose is gone stiff, have a new one in stock but probably will work with the old one
I've thought of selling the set up, but when you need it, you need it and it's handy to have .
I have enough stuff (sans oxygen bottle) to make up another set.

 

[dogdog]

Or you can get a mapp/oxygen rig withe the small disposable bottles for about $80. Last time I checked.

They don't work well on larger object bigger than a 1/4 bolt. I have that one useless almost.

 

[MushCreek]

I used to have one of those little MAAP/oxygen rigs. It was pretty useless. All I have is a standard propane torch, and it sounds like that won't even come close. I need three sets of oarlock sockets. They run $30 a pair, so I'm not looking to spend over $90. I like building stuff, but draw the line at spending more than I could simply buy them for. I guess I'll make a set, threaded, and use LocTite. From there, I'll try to determine of they're going to hold up. As I said, there's not much load, but I worry about them loosening up over time and usage.

 

[mogandave]

I used to have one of those little MAAP/oxygen rigs. It was pretty useless. All I have is a standard propane torch, and it sounds like that won't even come close. I need three sets of oarlock sockets. They run $30 a pair, so I'm not looking to spend over $90. I like building stuff, but draw the line at spending more than I could simply buy them for. I guess I'll make a set, threaded, and use LocTite. From there, I'll try to determine of they're going to hold up. As I said, there's not much load, but I worry about them loosening up over time and usage.

With a hardwood block the 1/4" brass plate will likely work fine by itself, and if it doesn't you can re-work it later.

 

[RoninB4]

I'm also wondering if I should just thread them together, use high strength Loc-Tite, and drill and press in a SS pin from the side. Shouldn't go anywhere. I have a 7/8-20 tap that would be a good size, or I have a 15/16-16 tap.

If you decide to thread the two components and use Loc-Tite you shouldn't have to cross pin them. Clean/prep the surfaces and thread locker does a fine job. Use red for semi-permanent assembly, the blue-glue for removable.

 

[king nero]

A (calculated) press fit and a shoulder on the socket. More is not needed.

 

[no704]

Really only used the mapp/o y rig I had to fuel up a tennis ball gun I made years ago. Worked great!!

 

[gte718p]

Really only used the mapp/o y rig I had to fuel up a tennis ball gun I made years ago. Worked great!!

Have to get the fuel air mixture right.

When I was in college, I ran the Solar car team. Our shop was had an alley with a brick wall at the end. We had the bright idea to build a carbon fiber reinforced spud gun. It looked cool, but really was just a standard sewer pipe spud gun. We were firing it with oxy/acetylene. The first ten shots were disappointing. Better with hairspray. We got a little lazy with where the barrel was pointed and it was a little high. We got the fuel mixture right all of a sudden. Sounded like a bomb went off. went over the brick wall, through the breezeway of the building behind us, and across a parking lot. Took out a window on the EE building a quarter mile plus away.

Unsurprisingly the police showed up. The tanks and gun had disappeared by that point and 12 solar car team members and 20 fsae members did not see or hear anything.

Ah the good old days.

 

[no704]

Ya, have to light it first and get a good flame, then snub it out and fill the cannon

 

[MushCreek]

I just did a good tight press fit. I think with the support of the wood blocks, it will be fine. I might bed them with epoxy just to make sure.

 

[Kent_B]

That really came out nice. Pics of the rest of the boat, please

 

[MushCreek]

I have a separate thread here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/a-tool-maker-builds-a-rowboat.501281/

 

[dffay]

Beautiful work. My thought would be to fillet silver solder the underside. Super clean, stainless wire brush scratch and plenty of flux. You’ll need oxy-acetylene soft flame but it should flow very well along the perpendicular angle of base and bushing. That would make it forever strong.
You should be very proud of your work.

 

[dffay]

Check Jody at Welding Tips and Tricks Silver Brazing Tips and also Paul Brodie brazing of bike frames. Both YouTube.