Simonds Saw/Stanley Mitre Box Mystery

[AntiqueBen]

I found a Stanley 460 Mitre Box today. It's going to be a fun clean up project. After doing some research on this model, it looks like it originally came with a Disston back saw. The saw blade was marked Stanley Rule & Level Co & under that it said Henry Disston & Sons. The saw also obviously had a Disston medallion. My saw is actually not a Disston. It is a Simonds saw. The saw has a Simonds medallion with an 1887 patent date & is stamped Simonds MFG Co on the top of the saw. What's odd is the blade is stamped Stanley Rule & Level Co, but it's not marked Henry Disston & Sons? This Simonds back saw blade is 30" long & 7" high, which seems to be larger than the original Disston saw. This saw is a monster. I haven't found a Simonds back saw this size online yet. I don't think someone just added a Simonds saw to this mitre box because the blade is still marked Stanley. So, the big question is, did Simonds make this saw for Stanley?? I've just began to clean this up, so I can post better pics in the days to come. Attached are a few pics with the markings. I also added a pic of how the original saw marked Disston looks to compare with mine. I'm sure there is an explanation for this. I'm hoping someone can shed some light on it for me. Anyone have any thoughts??

 

[RTM]

First off, measure your saw under the back, so usable blade. 30” x 6” is the normal hugest miter box saw.

Could be that in different years different vendors made the saw that was included with the miter box, I’ve never dug that far into Stanley miter boxes.

This catalog says a first quality back saw is furnished w each box.

Stanley Tools for Carpenters and Mechanics : Catalogue No. 34 : May 1937 Edition : The Stanley Rule & Level Plant : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

228 p., illus., 17.8 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Simonds and Atkins and Disston are all first quality in many peoples books.

You say the saw blade is marked Disston, and I see the other generic for Stanley marks. It’s possible someone swapped a new saw plate into the back and handle, not a difficult job. The tell would be to take the handle off (could be a dicey move) see if there are two sets of holes.

Lemme fish my miter box saws out and add some pics to compare saw nut locations.

More later.

 

[AntiqueBen]

My blade isn't marked Disston. But I did take the handle off. There is only one set of holes. See attached pic.

 

[RTM]

Oops, my bad. On my phone I didn't notice that this was someone else's screenshot. So I would say yours is as built, by Simonds, for that same size miter box, but maybe a different year or different model miter box than this pic below

Side note: Disston called their BackSaws #4, and had a special entry for the Miter Box Saws, available in 4, 5, & 6" heights, and 20-32" lengths.

Henry Disston & Sons, Inc. : Price List : 1923 [January 1918 Third Revised Edition] : Henry Disston & Sons, Inc. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

254 p., illus., 15.9 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

And the catalog says the 460 shipped with a 30", but that wasn't the biggest Disston made.

Stanley Tools for Carpenters and Mechanics : Catalogue No. 34 : April 1934 Edition : The Stanley Rule & Level Plant : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

218 p., illus., 16.9 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

Simple Answer: If you plan on using it, love that you have a box and saw that fit together, and ignore that someone else got one with a Disston. If it some point in the future you stumble across another 6" x 30" backsaw, by Disston, with the Made for Stanley etch, I would upgrade if you are bothered. (I used to have a 6" Langdon box, without a saw, and traded it away for a 5" box with matching saw, after looking for the correct size saw for 2 years.) Now, I grab any miter box saw I can find at a reasonable price, since most my contacts are users. Given away one 6" already it seems, as I only could find 4 & 5" in the stash. More pix in next post.

 

[RTM]

Not that it matters anymore, but here are the various handles on my saws

My main user, a 5" Disston, on the nut and on the back, blade is etched Made for Goodell Pratt




Back Up user, a 4", when trying to start the cut on a big piece of lumber, the smaller depth of cut works there to start the cut, and in my Stanley Marsh 100 framing miter box.



These two are rescue projects, waiting for a need to clean them up, usually to give away to a friend who scored a miter box without a saw. This is a Disston, 5", no blade or back markings visible in its current shape.



And here is a warranted superior, fairly recent based on the medallion. Again, no further markings.



And in the friends with Miter Box (problem) category, here is what one buddy showed up with hoping to sell or trade to others in our group of 20.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I have several old Disston saws but I only have a few Simonds saws. I actually like this huge Simonds back saw. I understand Simonds only made saws from 1901-26 so I'm guessing there are fewer of these Simonds out there since Disston had the market flooded with their saws. I've seen some Simonds back saws online that are commanding some high prices. I appreciate all the info RTM.

 

[RTM]

I would agree with fewer Simonds out there, and personally would keep that one or an Atkins just to be different, not that I think either is a better saw. Disston made good saws, and bought out many of his competitors, so the fact that Simonds and Atkins survived as long as they did is amazing.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I agree. Some of my favorite saws are my Disstons from the 1800's. They were superior saws back then. The more I see of the Simonds saws, the more I like them. Too bad they had such a short run on hand saws.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I guess the only thing to figure out is did Simonds make this saw for Stanley or did someone change the original blade & put a Stanley blade on a Simonds saw. If the whole configuration on a Stanley equivalent is different, then by process of elimination the only other option would be that Simonds made this saw for the Stanley 460 mitre box. I would guess that different manufacturers had different whole configurations on their blades.

 

[RTM]

I would think the simple plan that Simonds made it for Stanley is the logical answer. The single set of holes supports that.

Googling

simonds stanley miter box


Shows several other eBay listings, your thread, Jimbode listings etc, which supports that it wasn’t that uncommon.

 

[AntiqueBen]

The Disston saw had 4 screws on the handle & the Simonds only has 3. Since my Simonds only has 3 original holes, I would agree that Simonds made this saw for Stanley. I'll have to google Simonds Stanley Mitre Box. I've only seen Disstons on the Stanley mitre boxes. I appreciate the help.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Here are some before & after pics after the first round of cleaning. The blade turned out nice. The stamp on the blade is more legible now. It already looks like a different saw.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Does anyone know when Stanley first made the no. 460 mitre box?