Simple impact wrench question.

[Treeman]

If one were to use, lets say, an IR 231 impact wrench for installing lug nuts, does the "adjustable power" feature allow you to set it near a given range of about 90 to 100 ft. lbs. to achieve a good, even installation?

Or, is it more crude and the mechanic has to develop a "feel" for the correct torque?

I have no experience using impact wrenches and an explanation of how this would work (or not work) for wheel installation would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[GoBlue]

Honestly most techs set their 1/2 inch on full and run em in in a star pattern....ymmv

 

[Reality Sucks]

i use a 100ft lb touque stick generally, and most guns will set that at low power, but like most of us we have developed a feel with the gun we use every day. I would suggest as above, star patten with about a 1.5 sec trigger pull on each lug

 

[Fedwrench]

There are really too many varibles (air pressue and volume, time spent hammering each lug nut, did you just oil your gun, etc.) for that to be accurate. Although not trusted and hated by many, torqueseticks offer speed with a degree of accuracy.

 

[greasemonkey44]

torque sticks are the best way, you have to calibrate your gun(power settings) to the sticks to make sure youre not over doing it
they are great i use them everyday
http://www.google.com/search?source...gc.r_pw.&fp=9072aabcc49e1448&biw=1024&bih=705

 

[jjjrmx5]

If one were to use, lets say, an IR 231 impact wrench for installing lug nuts, does the "adjustable power" feature allow you to set it near a given range of about 90 to 100 ft. lbs. to achieve a good, even installation?

Or, is it more crude and the mechanic has to develop a "feel" for the correct torque?

I have no experience using impact wrenches and an explanation of how this would work (or not work) for wheel installation would be appreciated.

Thanks!

If I were to , lets say, reply to this, I would say that Techs and mechanics that used a, let's say, Impact gun to alone run lug nuts in ANY given range to do final INSTALL to torque specs would be called a hack, unprofessional and really just malicious in my book.

You want to run torque sticks, fine. Make sure they are matched to you ur gun.

Run the nuts up and torque to spec with a torque wrench, Is that so hard. Hard or not, it's the reason why I only take tires and rims alone to any tire shop in town. Lots of attitude but not lots of experience.

Goodluckwiththat.

LOL.

 

[Seanbev24]

Even if you develop a feel for it, you should always finish off with a torque wrench. It's more likely you'll overtorque them though. My 1/2" gun on the lowest setting is capable of breaking wheel studs.

At work, I usually run lugs down with my 3/8" mg325 on the lowest setting. It gets them from 60-80 ft.lb and then I torque to the proper spec. It only takes a minute to torque them properly and helps me sleep at night.

 

[makgreens]

i hate torque sticks......but it beats hammering everything on to were ya cant ever get em off

 

[jjjrmx5]

i hate torque sticks......but it beats hammering everything on to were ya cant ever get em off

Well, if you're the car owner, yes. $$$ and PITA. If you're the fucktard pseudo-mechanic that did them, then it's LOL.

Put the 1/2" IMPACT down and use the right tool. &^%$.

 

[Seanbev24]

i hate torque sticks......but it beats hammering everything on to were ya cant ever get em off

Torque sticks are great if they're used right. By right, I mean so you can quickly gun lugs down without too much torque, then finish with a torque wrench.

 

[ibedayank]

lugnut torque can range from 65# to 175# on lugnuts if i remember right
the renault lee car had the lest torque i think it was under 65# oneton dualy 8 lugs have the most

 

[toolfreak]

If I were to , lets say, reply to this, I would say that Techs and mechanics that used a, let's say, Impact gun to alone run lug nuts in ANY given range to do final INSTALL to torque specs would be called a hack, unprofessional and really just malicious in my book.

You want to run torque sticks, fine. Make sure they are matched to you ur gun.

Run the nuts up and torque to spec with a torque wrench, Is that so hard. Hard or not, it's the reason why I only take tires and rims alone to any tire shop in town. Lots of attitude but not lots of experience.

Goodluckwiththat.

LOL.

Well said, I like how so many people say the know their air gun and say they don't need a torque wrench. I have only seen one other mechanic torque lug nuts besides me and it just amazes me. I wanted to strangle the mechanic that did my last alignment, 3/8s ir titanium wouldn't take them off. I had to get out my 1/2" so I know they were well over 200 ft lbs

 

[Seanbev24]

I had one that was like 45 ft.lbs. I think it was a festiva or something similar.

 

[blacK20]

I think the ideal situation would be to run the lugs down with your gun and do the final torque with a wrench. Now I'm going to say this and most people would hate me for this. In high volume flat rate shops, it simply becomes unfeasible and inefficient to do that. Especially with so many different cars nowadays with different torque specs. So the happy medium has been said already. Torque stick! Now at least you will be within a range that isn't overly tight but will also keep the wheels from coming off on the highway.

 

[canuckian]

Get yourself a good torque wrench. I can't say I'd ever trust a mechanic's "feel" of their impact gun. Anytime i get any work done in a shop that requires removing the wheels, whether it be a jiffy lube or at a dealership, I always re-torque the lug nuts when I get home. Hell I've even checked them in the parking lot in front of the shop that did the work (gotten some funny looks) on the couple occasions that I've had a torque wrench in the truck toolbox. I can only remember a few select times when all my lug nuts were torqued properly and funny enough, one of those times was when I got my winter tires installed at a wal-mart! 9 out of 10 times though, they're on so tight that i have a hard time breaking them loose with a breaker bar! caught a dealership once that only tightened them what felt like finger tight on 2 wheels!!

 

[makgreens]

my shop provides torque wrenches just for wheels....and 55ft torque sticks are used on every job....i just hate em because i use a 3/8 impact have to use an adapter

 

[GoBlue]

call it half assed, call it whatever you like. Ive been in the business for 15 years and can only report what i see...every day. Just the facts...just the facts. That includes Firestone, Belle Tire, and Discount Tire, with a handfull of dealerships as well. Never said it was right or that i agreed with it.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Now I'm going to say this and most people would hate me for this. In high volume flat rate shops, it simply becomes unfeasible and inefficient to do that.

No.
It's fastidiousness piled on to ignorance piled on to greed.

You are paid to do a job and do it correctly. Over torqued or under-torqued lugs are not correct.
Do NOT pass go. Do not collect $200.

Glad-hand yourself and your pay rate all u want.
The job was done wrong and out of spec. And in some cases damaging. And yet u got ur $$$. Good for you.

Back to the "why I give you wheels only" clause. And this proves my case.

*********.

 

[Treeman]

Back to my original question, it sounds like you cannot set an impact gun to a lower setting and expect to get even torque values on a wheel.

Thanks guys. This was just an academic question to confirm an argument I am in with a seasoned diyer.

On other notes:

jjrmx5, lets say, we get together for a cool one? I have no idea why I inserted that, but it does sound stupid and your point is taken.

And, GoBlue, I really prefer Go State!

Thanks all.

 

[greasemonkey44]

also wheels torqued too tight will warp rotors and drums causing brake problems

 

[MrMark]

I would only bring in wheels too. There is no way to know with any degree of accuracy what an impact is doing on the business end. Just as Fedwrench said too many variables and there is no real tactile feedback; indeed that is the beauty of the hammering system. Without tactile feedback as in reaction torque you can't really even hazard a guess. The best you can do, and it is to watch the socket and listen for the hammer blows. Your ears and eyes, but not your hands, can tell you a little; close enough for hack work. What I do is run them on with just one or two hammers and then torque with a calibrated wrench. An uncalibrated wrench is just a guess.

 

[toolfreak]

I work for a large company and they had three different 1 tons that within two weeks of having new tires put on at a chain store I won't mention which one, the wheel studs sheered off. Only one happened while going down the highway, the other two were on the right of way. But hey, they don't get paid enough to take 5 minutes to grab a torque wrench and do it right. Ain't that what some of you are saying or at least thinking?

 

[scott37300]

call it half assed, call it whatever you like. Ive been in the business for 15 years and can only report what i see...every day. Just the facts...just the facts. That includes Firestone, Belle Tire, and Discount Tire, with a handfull of dealerships as well. Never said it was right or that i agreed with it.

I that is why non of my family's or friend's vehicles will ever go to one of those **** boxes for any work. I can't stand the lube places, tire stores, and even have had bad experiences at a few of the local dealerships.

I'm sure there are a ton of great mechanics out there that treat the customer's vehicles like it was their own, but there are also probably as many hacks out there that don't care at all. It's not worth the gamble to me. The only thing that I don't have the tools to do myself is change and balance tires(working on that in the near future hopefully), I have found a good 2 bay family shop that has been around forever that has the rim clamp and balancer that I take all my tire stuff to. Other than that I feel like taking my vehicles in for repair is a gamble at the very least.

I use a torque stick to run them down to keep from over tightening them and then use a torque wrench to final tighten them to correct specs. Takes all of 2-3 minutes longer to do it right.

 

[diesel research]

IR285B-s6 impact set to "kill" (pos #4), hammer for approx 5 seconds after lug stops. Seems to do the trick.

 

[pcpro15]

I'm not sure why torque sticks get such a bad rep here. They've always worked fine for me. When calibrated properly, I can't see why you wouldn't use them. The quickness of repeatability is awesome. To each their own.

 

[WhiffySpark]

No.
It's fastidiousness piled on to ignorance piled on to greed.

You are paid to do a job and do it correctly. Over torqued or under-torqued lugs are not correct.
Do NOT pass go. Do not collect $200.

Glad-hand yourself and your pay rate all u want.
The job was done wrong and out of spec. And in some cases damaging. And yet u got ur $$$. Good for you.

Back to the "why I give you wheels only" clause. And this proves my case.

*********.

Torque sticks is all you need. Tighten them evenly and that's it. When you work on cars every single day you develop a feel for things. Sorry but a torque wrench is excessive, there's no doubt about it.

Speaking of which, I don't even own a torque wrench. The only thing i torque are fly wheel bolts.

 

[GoBlue]

People who wrench for a living put their names on every job they do. If they are comfortable not torquing wheels down...its on them if the job comes back. If a tech feels he should use a torque wrench or torque sticks, thats also on them. I never said i didnt torque wheels down, just that an honest %95 of guy i have worked with do NOT. The only accedents i have ever seen have come from putting lugs on finger tight and forgetting to tighten them up causing wheel loss. I have seen that more times than i care to say

Honestly some of the best guys i have ever worked with didnt torque, and a few did...fwiw

 

[charle10]

I'm just a DIY as well, and I used to crank my lug nuts on with the impact guessing by feel, and I also used to trust the work at the tire shops. But it only takes one incident with a wheel wobbling around from not being tightened, finding a few lug studs that have snapped off, or trying to undo a impacted on lug nut on the side of the road when it is -10F to get you take the few extra minutes and torque them on to the correct torque.

 

[WhiffySpark]

People who wrench for a living put their names on every job they do. If they are comfortable not torquing wheels down...its on them if the job comes back. If a tech feels he should use a torque wrench or torque sticks, thats also on them. I never said i didnt torque wheels down, just that an honest %95 of guy i have worked with do NOT. The only accedents i have ever seen have come from putting lugs on finger tight and forgetting to tighten them up causing wheel loss. I have seen that more times than i care to say

Honestly some of the best guys i have ever worked with didnt torque, and a few did...fwiw

I'm just a DIY as well, and I used to crank my lug nuts on with the impact guessing by feel, and I also used to trust the work at the tire shops. But it only takes one incident with a wheel wobbling around from not being tightened, finding a few lug studs that have snapped off, or trying to undo a impacted on lug nut on the side of the road when it is -10F to get you take the few extra minutes and torque them on to the correct torque.

Snapped studs are usually from someone crossthreading a lugnut. that has nothing to do with an impact

 

[MrMark]

IR285B-s6 impact set to "kill" (pos #4), hammer for approx 5 seconds after lug stops. Seems to do the trick.

No one caught this. I thought it was pretty funny. I'm going to guess that is a big impact

 

[not-required]

No one caught this. I thought it was pretty funny. I'm going to guess that is a big impact

I was laughing after I googled that gun hahaha

 

[smalltruck]

IR285B-s6 impact set to "kill" (pos #4), hammer for approx 5 seconds after lug stops. Seems to do the trick.[/QUOTE
On oiled threads it does but on dry threads maybe not. Shop policy where I work is TQ wrench on every lugnut. Set to 475 of course

And he beat me to it with this post

 

[MattT]

But hey, they don't get paid enough to take 5 minutes to grab a torque wrench and do it right. Ain't that what some of you are saying or at least thinking?

Some know better and put money over doing the job right. They're mostly flat rate techs who remove wheels to do other work. And to be fair most of these guys won't grossly overtorque lugs with an impact.

Tire monkeys often don't know any better. I've encountered some that genuinely believe inflating tires to the pressure on the sidewall and hammering the lugs on 'til they stop is the right way to do things

 

[diesel research]

I pb blast lugs (have 3gal fuel cell of it), and do use above mentioned gun. We USED to have a pretty sweet tethered setup where 2 guns were tethered to the ceiling on an adjustable air cylinder. You could adjust the pressure of the cylinders to result in a "zero gravity" effect. That made a 30lb impact feel a bit lighter. Your hands were only there to control counter-rotation and pull the trigger.

Some *** hole broke the rams, so now it is back to bending over and holding normally.

A truck-trailer typically has 100 lug nuts, so you can imagine. Not to mention some of the tires are considered "flat" at "only" 100psi and MUST be removed and replaced.

There seems to be 2 different models even though they may have the same numbers? One seems to have black plastic housing guard and other is bare metal. Our black ones out perform our bare ones.

Our policy is 550ft-lbs. Usually the gun will hit almost spot on. I torque them all.

 

[MrMark]

what's the holder/appendage for? To control counter rotation? Is there really much counter rotation?

 

[diesel research]

what's the holder/appendage for? To control counter rotation? Is there really much counter rotation?

Yes, there is 550ft-lbs of counter rotation on a torque gun. (or how much ever you set it at)

A torque gun isn't like an impact. It's more like a diesel engine in low gear. Impact is more like a sledge hammer.

An impact has a relatively weak vane motor and derives a majority of it's torque from the hammering process. You get "pulses" of torque.

A torque gun also has a vane motor but extreme planetary gear driving. Real smooth/quiet, but extreme torque (and counter rotation)

It would break your wrist if the bar didn't stop the gun from rotating and you could hang on.

 

[diesel research]

In a previous job/industry I used to use a hydraulic version capable of about 10-20,000ft-lbs. Reaction arm required.

 

[MrMark]

learned something there. So what do you use? The impact or the "torque gun"? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each for these trucks you work on? Torque gun allows you to run to a set torque without the need for a torque wrench?

 

[Monte]

Hazet "9012-90" torque limited impact gun. 90 NM tightening , 800 NM reverse

 

[diesel research]

learned something there. So what do you use? The impact or the "torque gun"? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each for these trucks you work on? Torque gun allows you to run to a set torque without the need for a torque wrench?

I use both on each lug. That will explain the advantages/disadvantages (excluding financial)

I use the 285 as a "run down tool" for approx 5 seconds after the nut stops. That brings torque somewhere usually just shy of 550, but sometimes a bit over. Stud stretching isn't much concern in this range.

It is loud, heavy, vibrates a lot BUT gets me within range very fast, because it has a "top speed" of several thousand rpm (free speed while running down lugs)

The torque gun is lighter, more precise, and sets a final torque. Much quieter and no vibration. It is very slow due to compound gear reduction. The motor is rotating thousands of rpms, but the output is moving very slow. It shuts off "precisely" at desired torque value. Then only clicks. Precision is only relative, as the calibration chart shows 30ft-lbs or more of variation between target. Depending on air pressure. Thats approx 15ft-lbs each way (535-536)

Still more precise than an impact.

By using them as a combo you get "precision" and speed. That is important, because jobs are timed, and rusted wheel hubs often use up a majority of your time. (Imagine beating on a rim with a 16lb sledge just to free it off the hub)

A third step is to torque 3 lug nuts with a norbar or snap on 600ft-lb manual torque wrench set at 550. This is done 3x a day (supposed to) as an audit to ensure the cp gun is still within accuracy range. It wears and slips eventually, and must be sent off for calibration. There are 3 guns and each of them are supposed to have the audit 3x just to be safe. In practicality, you can go several months typically.

I don't do as many tires as tire guys, but some days may remove 30-35, and would wear my *** out if I did it by hand.

Obviously you as a motorist want to feel safe that the tractor-trailer next to you/in front of you has it's wheels secured.