Simple question about sharp knives for knife experts

[drewvdw]

Probably a stupid question I'd answer myself over time, but I'll ask anyways. I just recently got a new Benchmade with an M390 blade, I've never had a blade this hard, so I'm a little unsure. I keep my knives razor sharp (beyond hair popping) including my work knife. I don't abuse my knives (no using it as a prybar or screwdriver or cutting hard materials, I have a boxcutter for that), that being said, will I be ok just stropping it nightly for the most part? I know that there's going to be times when I do something stupid and need to sharpen it, but cutting tape, thread/twine, maybe some cardboard, small stuff like that, should I realistically need to take it to a stone or will the strop be enough?

 

[cgrutt]

Stropping realigns and polishes but doesn't remove any metal, so it won't actually sharpen your knife if it gets dull. It will keep a sharp knife sharp longer though. I have a couple of Benchmade knifes, they're very nice. My EDC knife is a Wilson Combat with Hogue blade. I sharpen my knifes on Norton stones followed by a Belgium Coticule. Finest wet stone on the planet IMO. I never strop my knifes but probably should, LOL. I also don't sharpen them as often as I should. Good luck!

 

[exmaxima1]

A strop with some rouge or fine diamond paste will keep a sharp polished edge. I use a 1x42 belt sander with a leather stropping belt on my ZDP-189 blades, and they are even harder than most M390 blades. I use a white polishing compound and it only takes a few seconds.

 

[ecally]

I use a strop to keep my Benchmade Grip ( in 390) going until it needs sharpened again. I use diamond paste or diamond lapping film. It helps me to have a strop with a hard backing. I usually sharpen mine on a Sharpmaker (ceramic) or a diamond stone. I don't find it harder to sharpen or strop than say S30V.


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[drewvdw]

Probably a dumb question, but would valve lapping compound work for stropping? I've got plenty at work and I'm just running off an old belt for now.

 

[exmaxima1]

Probably a dumb question, but would valve lapping compound work for stropping? I've got plenty at work and I'm just running off an old belt for now.

Might be a bit coarse, but will certainly work.

 

[jkwilson]

If you feel the remotest urge to work on a knife every night, you need a hobby. If I had enough time to mess with a knife once a month I'd think I was goofing off.

 

[ovrrdrive]

If you feel the remotest urge to work on a knife every night, you need a hobby. If I had enough time to mess with a knife once a month I'd think I was goofing off.

A few years ago sharpening knives was my hobby and I was perfectly ok with that...

To the OP yes you can just strop or hit it on a ceramic rod to rehone. That is, assuming you have the right equipment and know what you're doing.

Hair popping is widely considered the sharpest you can get a knife. I'm not really sure how you could get it sharper than that or how you'e measure that...

Valve lapping compound will work to a degree but if your knife was really that sharp before the edge you'd get with that would probably be lucky to even shave. Think of valve lapping compound as 500 grit sandpaper whereas you need the 20000 grit stropping compound to do it right. Go to http://www.chefknivestogo.com/strops.html and get a good strop and the right compound and you'll be fine.

 

[cgrutt]

Shouldn't be taking anyvmetal off the knife with stropping. You will probably round off the blade set as you're not holding blade at consistent angle through the entire range of motion on a strop esp if it doesn't have a hard flat backing such as a belt. Stropping is fine but I wouldn't put any cutting compound on it. If compound is courser than finest stone you'll actually be dulling the knife...

Its like sanding out a panel with 1200 wet sand and then drying it off with a dirty towel. The towel will put heavier scratches in it than the paper!

 

[DonPowers]

I use the leather honing wheel on my Tormek T7 with honing compound, which is approximately 8000 grit. You can use the honing compound on any leather wheel or strop.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Tormek-Honing-Compound-P342.aspx

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Strops-C11.aspx

 

[drewvdw]

I've ordered a strop from the stropman along with compounds, but it's about a month out. I've also decided to up my sharpening game and got myself an edge pro apex with all of the stones/papers. I had been working off of a buddy's 3 stone system, but I need something for myself beyond a hone and emergency sharpener.

 

[morgaj1]

I would invest in a set of diamond stones. At some point, you will need to put a new edge on that knife and the diamond stones will do it easily.

 

[cgrutt]

I try to keep my EDC and chef knifes sharp enough to cut paper

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yIkQDJ4b210" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and leave hair popping to the razor

(Truth be told, I'm still working up the nerve for the straight edge, LOL, attempted a few times and I can attest it's sharp!)

 

[zkling]

Stropping realigns and polishes but doesn't remove any metal, so it won't actually sharpen your knife if it gets dull. It will keep a sharp knife sharp longer though. I have a couple of Benchmade knifes, they're very nice. My EDC knife is a Wilson Combat with Hogue blade. I sharpen my knifes on Norton stones followed by a Belgium Coticule. Finest wet stone on the planet IMO. I never strop my knifes but probably should, LOL. I also don't sharpen them as often as I should. Good luck!

Not true, to polish a surface you have to remove material unless you are burnishing. Now this can happen with a smooth steel rod such as are common in a kitchen environment. But the traditional strop with compound does indeed remove material, which is why the strop darkens with use. Additionally a strop is not near hard enough to realign a blade edge, a smooth steel rod on the other hand is.

 

[BikerDad]

Stropping realigns and polishes but doesn't remove any metal, so it won't actually sharpen your knife if it gets dull.

You are confusing stropping with steeling, as is routinely done by chef's in movies and such. Steeling will realign. Stropping DOES remove metal, but since a strop is usually loaded with fine polishing compound, it's going to remove very, very little metal.

 

[cgrutt]

I respectfully disagree but hey it's the interwebz what do I know...

Stropping by definition realigns metal (as does steeling). Add an abrasive compound to a strop and you're actually honing, which is removing metal (albeit very finely depending on choice of compound).

Stropping can be done on leather with or without compound. It can also be done on linen or canvas. My strop has both.

Here's one view, there are countless others http://www.shaving101.com/index.php/shaving-faqs/150-how-do-you-strop-a-straight-razor.html

First, it is important to clarify that stropping is not the same as sharpening, which is called "honing" and is done using a wetstone. Before using a straight razor, it must be sharpened to be shave ready and then be honed every few months. Stropping is done before every shave to align the edge of the blade so that the steel is pointing in the same direction and you have a straight, clean edge. To strop a razor, you move the straight razor's edge forward and back against a razor strop.

 

[cgrutt]

Here's another view.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/wssteeling.shtml (full article)

Steeling, and stropping for that matter, are very simplistic procedures, very useful and helpful, but very misunderstood and when performed incorrectly become very destructive for the edge. Steeling being the more misunderstood and abused of those two. Although, those two processes do serve the same purpose, both very often are mistaken for sharpening, which is a completely different process. What's strange and bad, you see a lot of wanna be experts, seasoned cooks, including celebrity chefs, and I don't know who else, rubbing their knives vigorously against the grooved butcher's steel telling you how this sharpens a knife. That is plain wrong and grooved steel is a crime against the edge anyway

What Steeling Is Not - It definitely is not sharpening. Sharpening, by definition is the process of removal of the metal from the knife edge to make it thinner, i.e. sharper. However, this is not the only way to make the edge feel sharper. That's when steeling is done correctly.

Why the edges dull - Contrary to the popular belief, knife edge doesn't get dull because it looses the metal due to the wear, i.e. because rubbing it against the cutting medium and loosing atoms to that. Well, that wear happens too, but to a very little effect. The edge, at least a sharp edge of the blade is very thin piece of metal. The thinner the edge, the sharper the knife. To make a cut, the operator presses the edge against the medium, pushes or pulls, or both and the medium is cut. Anyway, simply put, the edge is a thin strip of metal that is subjected to significant amounts of pressure, hundreds or even thousands of pounds, and unfortunately, thanks to the human nature significant lateral loads too. It's very hard to keep perfectly straight angle during the cut, the knife wobbles a bit, thus those lateral loads. Vertical pressure is tolerated well, but lateral (i.e. side to side) pressure or loads deform or even break the metal a lot easier.

Whether the metal folds to the sides or chips, the edge is not as thin as it was before, and the surface area of the edge increases. It becomes duller, even though it still has all the original metal on it. Now, it takes more pressure or more force to make the same cut. Therefore, the deformed metal will be subjected to more stress and will deform even more. That's the process and that is why the edges dull primarily. To make the knife sharp again, you have to make the edge straight again, and in more extreme cases, thin it down again. Obviously, chipped edge can not be helped with steeling or stropping, it requires sharpening, which is done with sharpening stone or any abrasive material, but not with a butcher steel.

What Steeling Is - So, let's start with what steeling is. The knife edge is swiped against a steel rod, also called a steel, also a butcher's steel. The purpose and the effect, when it's done correctly, is that the deformed edge gets realigned back to its straight state.

What is stropping - Well, it serves the same purpose, aligning the edge. However, it's done by swiping the edge on the piece of the leather. Stropping normally is done on the plain leather, however loading the leather with an abrasive compound such as diamond paste or chromium oxide powder will make a fine sharpener. In fact I routinely use several different leather strops loaded with 0.5µm and 0.25µm diamond crystal spray as the final steps for sharpening, before I strop the finished blade on the plain leather strop. One thing to remember about stropping is that hard steel doesn't respond very well to stropping on the plain leather. Again, we're talking about the steel above 62-63HRC. For those cases use borosilicate or ceramic rods. Other than that, stropping is more effective for the blades below 62HRC.

For the record, if we're using abrasive compound on the strop, then it is not stropping and we're not simply realigning the edge, but removing the metal, which is sharpening.

Stropping is done in the opposite way of steeling. In that the edge is dragged backwards, not pushed forward. The rest is absolutely the same. You use very light pressure, try to match the edge angle as precisely as you can, and you will be fine. Stropping is also very necessary and effective step after any sharpening. Magic marker helps again here, with the correct angle. If you have not done it[stropping] before, try it, it will dramatically improve sharpening results. Because, it removes weak very small pieces of metal, burr, straightens the edge making it more refined.

So, in the end, steeling and stropping, although different procedures by themselves, both serve the same purpose and that purpose is to align the deformed edge of the knife. it is not sharpening, even though it makes the edge feel sharper, it is not sharpening, as its purpose is not removal of the metal, but realigning the deformations on the edge.