Simple way to make a flat tray with sides

[FigureItOut]

Forgive the elementary question please.

I want to make a flat tray for this level on my rolling work station. It'll hold in-use tools and have a soldering iron stand and tip cleaner riveted to it. I'd like 1" sides, don't care about matching the flat corners of the bottom piece. It's 15" square and needs a hole in the center about 3" in diameter. I'd like to do aluminum and I have a spool gun.

What I don't know is how to make good straight cuts in the sheet to make my square, and how to do the sides so they don't have sharp edges, and the best way to make the center hole.

I have the following available: angle grinder, big *** shears, recip. saw, chop saw with abrasive blade, drill press, welder, lack of welding skills, cheap sheet metal bending tool with 3/8" & 1" slots, clamps and vise, time, inclination to buy a jigsaw and metal blades should the need arise.

Any ideas?

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[yaidunno]

A shear and box/pan brake would have that done for you in 5 minutes. Short of having the proper tools, I'm not sure how one would go about it. You could cut out your 15" square and weld the 1" sides on, but the "lack of welding skills" and spool gun probably wont yield very nice results.

Straight cuts with out a shear will require proper layout work, and correct tin snip cutting. Yes, even the most primitive of tools require the correct technique in order to get the results you're after.

What is this cheap sheet metal bending tool you speak of?

 

[FigureItOut]

A shear and box/pan brake would have that done for you in 5 minutes. Short of having the proper tools, I'm not sure how one would go about it. You could cut out your 15" square and weld the 1" sides on, but the "lack of welding skills" and spool gun probably wont yield very nice results.

Straight cuts with out a shear will require proper layout work, and correct tin snip cutting. Yes, even the most primitive of tools require the correct technique in order to get the results you're after.

What is this cheap sheet metal bending tool you speak of?

Sounds like you're telling me that without a brake and a real shear, I'd have to be well practiced to get decent results, general aptitude aside. I didn't want to hear that, was hoping there was a simple way I just didn't know of.

The bending tool is essentially just two stiff slots with a depth stop, I feel like I could get a decent crease in light gauge material with it.

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[FigureItOut]

I should mention, I'm laying practice beads everyday and doing okay on 1/8" and bigger steel. I haven't had any aluminum or thinner steel laying around to work with. I've been at it about two weeks.

As to proper tools, I'll get what I need short of large equipment, but it sounds like a brake may be the best/only way to do it well. If I can get the cuts done, I'll find someone with a brake and trade a favor, then do the welding. I may just do steel since I'm much more comfortable with it.

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[kbs2244]

You might just check Wally's for a cake pan.

 

[Guster]

Using an angle grinder with a zip disc you can score a crease line in thicker material so you can bend it by hand leaving a very nice crisp bend. In 2mm sheet with a 1mm deep grind you still have 1mm left leaving you with a strong enough bend. If you bend it so the grind line is on the inside you can also hardly see it once bent. 2mm is also more than tick enough to weld the corners shut easily.

 

[bczygan]

Must it be liquid tight? In other words, does there need to be a 1" high side around the center hole? And do the corner seams need sealing some way?

If not, then careful shearing to size with hand shears and touch up with hand files would get the square piece. A hole saw or fly cutter in a drill, for the middle hole. And then bend the 1" edges with your tool or take it by a sheet metal place and have them bend it.

Bill

 

[FigureItOut]

Must it be liquid tight? In other words, does there need to be a 1" high side around the center hole? And do the corner seams need sealing some way?

If not, then careful shearing to size with hand shears and touch up with hand files would get the square piece. A hole saw or fly cutter in a drill, for the middle hole. And then bend the 1" edges with your tool or take it by a sheet metal place and have them bend it.

Bill

No, just needs to hold tools in, a discarded bits of wire and such. It's just a flat surface to put stuff. Maybe I'll try some real careful straight lines with my shears on a scrap piece and see how it goes. I'll check out YouTube also for ways to cut straight lines with a grinder, I know people do it.

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[bullnerd]

Cake pan would be my choice, but...

Hand held circular saw with a carbide blade will make quick work of cutting and scoring.

Score part way through, like mentioned above and bend. Use a straight edge for straight cuts and scores.

Carborundum blade on that large of a piece of Alu? No thanks.

 

[Whiskeymike]

If I didn't have access to a brake, I would make it out of 1" angle and cut a square sheet to sit inside. You can use all kinds of saws to cut the aluminum. Either cut them to 45 and tack weld them at the corners, or cut 3 90 degree triangles every 15", bend them up, tack and seam the end.

For the hole in the center, draw a line from opposing corners to opposite corner. Now do the same for the other two corners. Where it crosses is the middle. Use a center punch to give you a starting point on the X and then use a hole saw the size you need.

This is great welding practice, go for it. If you get the material from the cut bin, you should be able to make a few for $10. Even if you throw some away, you'll learn some things which is worth the $10.

 

[FigureItOut]

Well lots of good ideas. Thanks for taking your time guys.
I called a couple sheet metal fab shops about the bends and described what I needed. $20 to fold it if I bring the sheet at one shop, or $40 to build it entirely at another. I opted to just have it done.
Probably a lot to spend on something so simple, but it'll look nicely done. I'll get my practice in on something else I guess.

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[whateg01]

Be aware that the specific alloy you choose will make a big difference in the results. Anything that's heat treated will be hard to get a sharp bend in without the right tools, and then may crack. If you want easy, go buy some 1" aluminum angle extrusion and epoxy or rivet it to the edges of square piece of sheet. The edges don't even have to be perfect this way since they'll be hidden by the angle.

If you want to cut strips and go at it with the spool gun, go for it. Practice makes perfect. But MIG welded aluminum doesn't typically look like what you are used to on steel.

Dave

 

[kazlx]

I know you paid to have it done and for $20 or whatever it's probably worth it, but at the same time, you aren't really learning anything. It's really not that hard and would be a perfect project to learn on. You don't need anything fancy to build what you need. Some people are way over-complicating this.

Cut a piece like so, this is 17x17 with 1" notches in the corner. You will end up with a 15" square roughly with 1" sides. Hole saw through the middle. You could easily cut the entire thing with a jigsaw. Scribe and cut freehand and cleanup with a file or clamp a 2x4 as a guide. Bend the sides over the corner of a 2x4 or piece of mdf if you want a sharper bend. Either weld the corners if you want the practice or make some little corner pieces that are bent and you can bolt/rivit/tackweld/whatever them on. Done. Specific equipment would make this a five minute job.

If you want to pay for shipping, I would cut you a few out of some scrap and send them to you for you to bend and weld.

 

[kazlx]

 

[rsanter]

That simple bending tool you have will get the job done in some 18ga material.
Cut the material to the size you want and add 2" each dimension.
Cut 1"X1" squares out of the corners.
Use that bending tool to bend the 1" lips up on the four sides.
Then take the four 1"X1" squares you have and bend them in half. Pop fiction them into the corners to add strength.
Mark your hole for the center and drill a few 1/2" holes near each other inside of the line. Use your tin snips to cut between the holes to make a larger hole. Then work from there to cut out the circle you need.
Debur all edges.
Paint.
Install.
Go drink a beer while you marvel at what you did

Bob

 

[kazlx]

Make it out of paper if you need to first to get the template correct, then transfer to metal. This is literally done every day for stuff like this.

 

[bullnerd]

My bad...I thought I read 1/8" alu.

 

[FigureItOut]

I know you paid to have it done and for $20 or whatever it's probably worth it, but at the same time, you aren't really learning anything. It's really not that hard and would be a perfect project to learn on. You don't need anything fancy to build what you need. Some people are way over-complicating this.

Cut a piece like so, this is 17x17 with 1" notches in the corner. You will end up with a 15" square roughly with 1" sides. Hole saw through the middle. You could easily cut the entire thing with a jigsaw. Scribe and cut freehand and cleanup with a file or clamp a 2x4 as a guide. Bend the sides over the corner of a 2x4 or piece of mdf if you want a sharper bend. Either weld the corners if you want the practice or make some little corner pieces that are bent and you can bolt/rivit/tackweld/whatever them on. Done. Specific equipment would make this a five minute job.

If you want to pay for shipping, I would cut you a few out of some scrap and send them to you for you to bend and weld.

That simple bending tool you have will get the job done in some 18ga material.
Cut the material to the size you want and add 2" each dimension.
Cut 1"X1" squares out of the corners.
Use that bending tool to bend the 1" lips up on the four sides.
Then take the four 1"X1" squares you have and bend them in half. Pop fiction them into the corners to add strength.
Mark your hole for the center and drill a few 1/2" holes near each other inside of the line. Use your tin snips to cut between the holes to make a larger hole. Then work from there to cut out the circle you need.
Debur all edges.
Paint.
Install.
Go drink a beer while you marvel at what you did

Bob

Thanks for these comments, it was encouraging. I know that shop won't be doing my piece until next week so I scooted on down to the HD to give it a shot.

Well I made a mistake after mistake. I'm feeling pretty inept but I'm figuring it out.

The only sheet over 17" and not zinc coated was 16 gauge. Could've waited until tomorrow for the metal supply shop, but didn't.

I made some practice cuts with the jigsaw, but not straight cuts. I mishandled the saw badly and had to cut it down significantly before I got straight cuts. The sheet was pretty much ruined but I thought I could salvage it if I left off one side of the lip.

I think the bends turned out okay but as soon as I finished the second one I realized the gap was awful, not gonna put a bead over that to give it a finished look.

Anyway I'm done for the night but I'm gonna go ahead and finish building it even at this unusable size, see what other mistakes I make on this now scrap piece. I'll need to get a lighter sheet and use rsanter's or kazlx's plan to deal with that gap in the corner.


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[Tinner]

Hammer the gap shut and weld it. If you have a piece of bar stock to use as a dolly, that will help to keep the corners square. You're almost there, don't give up now.

 

[FigureItOut]

Hammer the gap shut and weld it. If you have a piece of bar stock to use as a dolly, that will help to keep the corners square. You're almost there, don't give up now.

I used square tube clamped to the bench to get that far, not sure what you mean by using bar stock as a dolly though. I think the 16 gauge may be too thick to hammer that closed without warping the sides real bad. I definitely haven't given up, but this sheet is done for. I figure it'd be wise to keep building out though, make some more mistakes before I move on to another piece. Then I'll either have a decent little tray for something else, or another piece to just sit and lay pats down on.

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[Tinner]

Take a piece of bar stock or tube or whatever you have and put it inside the corner of the tray. Hammer from the outside to form the corner. Work from the bottom of the tray up. Work both sides of the corner to get it to close up.

No way is 16ga too heavy for this. Go slowly and strike the metal squarely. If you end up with a bit of a gap, put a piece of aluminum, brass or copper inside the corner and weld vertical down from the outside. Grind the weld with a 60 grit flap disk.

This is all part of sheet metal work. I work in a sheet metal shop with state of the art cutting and forming equipment. You still need to use hammers and dollies to get tight fitting joints and to remove distortion from welding.

I see so many guys here who give up to easily on jobs like this. Its not a skill you learn overnight. You have to learn to salvage things that are imperfect. Patience and tenacity will save your project.

 

[yaidunno]

Your practice piece turned out quite well, especially for working with 16 ga. material. Certainly not too far off the mark. As Tinner said, working with sheet metal takes time to develop the skills needed. Don't get discouraged yet! Even if you don't end up using it, finish it up and see what you come up with. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[ilovevocs]

It's going to be difficult to maintain a tight bend radius on 16 gauge without a break.

Looks to me like you formed the edge over with the piece you were bending over to close to the end of the bend. You have to hold it further away from the edge to compensate for the bend radius so your cuts on the ends line up.

The other thing you could consider is tipping the edge using two pieces of 1/4 flat bar. If your flange is 1", make them 2" wide. Use a 7/8" wide piece of 16 ga sandwiched between the two. Drill and bolt together. Slide the flange into the opening and gradually bend it a bit at time working your way up and down the flange. You'll want to clamp it with vice grips for a handle or weld a handle on it. Take your time tipping it, it should take 4 to 5 passes. The more passes you make the less distortion the part will have.


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[FigureItOut]

Well it's not the kind of work I'd post up, but after getting all the assistance, here we go. I smoked my grinder so all I had to clean up with was cup brush on a drill.

Take a piece of bar stock or tube or whatever you have and put it inside the corner of the tray. Hammer from the outside to form the corner. Work from the bottom of the tray up. Work both sides of the corner to get it to close up.

No way is 16ga too heavy for this. Go slowly and strike the metal squarely. If you end up with a bit of a gap, put a piece of aluminum, brass or copper inside the corner and weld vertical down from the outside. Grind the weld with a 60 grit flap disk.

You were sure right about that.

Smoked the grinder fixing this:

Unfortunately, this was the best looking corner I had. It's a bit tougher than just laying long beads on a flat piece for practice.

In any case, it was a lot of work with the minimal tools I had. I'm gonna let the fab shop do the one I'll use. I accomplished both goals. I made a tray, and I'll have a nice tray to use on my box. Win/win.



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[Radartom1]

a little late to the party but for future builds on a pan like this what I do in my cad drawings is add a small circle to the inside corners it allows for a tighter bend with a little less work. this small circle can be done with a drill, drill first, then cut into the drilled hole. one reason you had the gap is caused by the metal trying to bend into it self. if that makes sense.

 

[FigureItOut]

a little late to the party but for future builds on a pan like this what I do in my cad drawings is add a small circle to the inside corners it allows for a tighter bend with a little less work. this small circle can be done with a drill, drill first, then cut into the drilled hole. one reason you had the gap is caused by the metal trying to bend into it self. if that makes sense.

It does, yes. So like 1/8"..5/32"..thereabouts? That would have also helped get the sides more even.

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[Tinner]

Hey, you done alright! Most importantly, you completed the task and learned something. On to the next adventure.

 

[4 FN 27]

Hey, you done alright! Most importantly, you completed the task and learned something. On to the next adventure.

Yep..what Tinner said. Nice job! Bet if you do it again It will look awesome.

I have guys in my Fab shop that if you take away their Turret Presses, Lasers and Brake Presses they would be lost and in no way shape or form could produce a part like that.

 

[kazlx]

Congrats man. It looks fine. Told you it wasn't that hard. Do the same thing 10 more times and by the 10th one, it will look pro

 

[FigureItOut]

Thanks guys, seeing some of your work that means a lot. I'm not trying to become a skilled fabricator, just round out my skills a bit. Thanks for all the help.

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[Radartom1]

It does, yes. So like 1/8"..5/32"..thereabouts? That would have also helped get the sides more even.

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In that ball park yes depending on the thickness of the metal your working with.

 

[FigureItOut]

Well I cleaned it up a bit. I learned quite a bit, thanks again to you guys.

I think next up will be a lawn trailer I want to build out of some racks I have stored in my back yard.
Edit: this isn't signed as though it's art, it's not. It's the initials of my business name, I put it on stuff, just cuz.

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