Single stage or two stage compressor, worth it?

[Toymeister]

Currently I have two oil hot dog compressors with an 11 gallon pressure tank plumbed in. It works but occationally I have to wait for the compressors to catch up. I am looking to upgrade to a 60 gallonb compressor, 5 hp.

Most of the big box variants are very similar in the 600 - 800 range. They may be made in the same plant by sanborn. But wait - with zoro 25% discount for just a little more I can get a Ingersoll two stage type 30 for 966.00. Given my sales tax rate that is equivelant to a 880.00 local purchase.

So for a "little more" is it worth it? One impoortant difference being a consumer grade is based on 50% duty whereas the IR is 100%.

For a point of rerence I am a DIY with a wide selection of air tools.

http://www.zoro.com/i/G2426672/?category=5828

 

[wild cowboy]

I would not pay a premium for IR's or Quincy's low cost compressors. They have had issues, as this is a classic case of high end brands slapping their label on cheap stuff.

If you were buying a $3000+ compressor, IR or Quincy would be a great choice.

All sub $1200 compressors, regardless of brands, have Chinese pumps, motors and usually tanks as well, some are assembled in China, some in Mexico, some here. They are all the cheap Chinese stuff.

It really takes at least $2000 budget to get a decent reliable well built two stage. (such as a Schultz or a Curtis)

For this reason, since they are all basically the same in your price range, I would look at this $499 Kobalt, as Lowes has a liberal warranty and it gets stellar reviews:

www.lowes.com/pd_54284-1126-VT6362_1z10d76+1z140vv__?productId=3370356

 

[Toymeister]

I would not pay a premium for IR's or Quincy's low cost compressors. They have had issues, as this is a classic case of high end brands slapping their label on cheap stuff.

If you were buying a $3000+ compressor, IR or Quincy would be a great choice.

All sub $1200 compressors, regardless of brands, have Chinese pumps, motors and usually tanks as well, some are assembled in China, some in Mexico, some here. They are all the cheap Chinese stuff.

It really takes at least $2000 budget to get a decent reliable well built two stage. (such as a Schultz or a Curtis)

For this reason, since they are all basically the same in your price range, I would look at this $499 Kobalt, as Lowes has a liberal warranty and it gets stellar reviews:

www.lowes.com/pd_54284-1126-VT6362_1z10d76+1z140vv__?productId=3370356

Will I be disapointed with a 3hp model vice a 5hp model?

Also since the IR is a $1200+ model does this rise to the level of a reliable non chinese pump? I fiqure that the 500 - 800 models are, essentially, all ther same. IR offeres a single stage model like this.

The one I linked is the lowest priced of a two stage compressor. Another point of reference is the weight. The $500 - 800 models usually weigh in the 2XX pound range. This 30 series IR tips the scales at over 4XX pounds. Where is the extra weight comming from?

 

[wild cowboy]

especially in this price range, you pay a really high premium for the IR name.

the 3HP is not going to pump up the tank as fast as a 5HP

just like an 80 gallon tank is not gonna kick on as often as a 60

and if you want a good 2-stage, there is really no way to do it for much less than $2000, if you want it to be reliable and have a nice size tank. and even at $2000, I would avoid IR, something like a Curtis is much better built at that price range.

I might be tempted on an IR if I got in on a 25-30% Zoro discount, though.

 

[Scsmith42]

If it were me I would purchase based upon the cfm range of the compressor and the tank storage pressure versus my air consumption needs.

Most 3 hp compressors will produce around 10 cfm and store it at 135 psi, most 5 hp units produce 15-18 cfm, with single stage pressure of 135 and two stage pressure of 175.

Higher tank pressure provides you with longer reserves for running high consumption air tools such as die grinders.

Unless you use a die grinder or air sander a lot, a single stage compressor should be fine.


Scott

 

[Toymeister]

especially in this price range, you pay a really high premium for the IR name.

the 3HP is not going to pump up the tank as fast as a 5HP

just like an 80 gallon tank is not gonna kick on as often as a 60

and if you want a good 2-stage, there is really no way to do it for much less than $2000, if you want it to be reliable and have a nice size tank. and even at $2000, I would avoid IR, something like a Curtis is much better built at that price range.

I might be tempted on an IR if I got in on a 25-30% Zoro discount, though.

So then, the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) are you saying: yes the Two stage IR at that price is a good idea or no it is a waste of cash?

 

[sberry]

Get the 2 stage. The difference in the money is minor.

 

[wild cowboy]

So then, the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) are you saying: yes the Two stage IR at that price is a good idea or no it is a waste of cash?

I cannot answer that, you are looking at the sleaziest two stage IR makes, that's up to you, but you have to ask yourself, where are they cutting corners, when the reliable ones cost 2K?

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . so you having the compressor shipped to Kandahar ??

For DIY homeowner, the 2 stage IR you listed for $1,000 (after 25% Zoro discount from $1,287 list) will be a lifetime compressor. I seriously doubt there's anything you can do to kill it.

Do you need a 2 stage . . . maybe not . . . but do you WANT a 2 stage !!??!

 

[Toymeister]

OP . . . so you having the compressor shipped to Kandahar ??

Have you heard of the POWs that build their dream homes brick by brick? Same thing. in 2011-2 I planned the finishing of my garage in my mind then I did just that when I returned. Here in the K-Span next door there is a 80 gallon Speed-Aire and inside a 3 hp 30 gallon speed-aire. There is a marked difference between the two. Most locations have IR outside.

There is a noticable advantage of someone in my position. I buy all the hot deals that suit me and I camel-ize all tools that I think that I might want. Over time I get a amazing amount and all at a good price. The best thing is when I get home my wife has it all stacked up for me. Christmas again!

 

[67King]

I bought a 2 stage probably 7 years ago. Home Depot/Lowes thing for $1000. It has served me exceedingly well as a DIYer. However, that was before the onslaught of Li batteries and all the tools that go with them. Frankly, I rarely use the compressor any more. Sure I have a bead blaster, porting tools, and have painted some, but day to day, almost never. Unless you are doing seriously high consumption jobs, it is overkill, and you'd be better off getting electric tools and a smaller compressor.

 

[CNGsaves]

I was guessing you were putting together the parts for your dream garage back in states, but not sure.

For $1K investment, that IR will handle all that you can throw at it. Sure you can buy cheaper, but for $1K that is the sweet spot to get a nice 2 stage. My used Powermate 60 gal compressor came from guy who upgraded to IR compressor just like you're considering. He does body work on the side in his shop and wanted faster recovery time of compressor for sanding.

Thanks for your service OP. Hope you get home to your shop soon.

 

[wild cowboy]

I bought a 2 stage probably 7 years ago. Home Depot/Lowes thing for $1000. It has served me exceedingly well as a DIYer. However, that was before the onslaught of Li batteries and all the tools that go with them. Frankly, I rarely use the compressor any more. Sure I have a bead blaster, porting tools, and have painted some, but day to day, almost never. Unless you are doing seriously high consumption jobs, it is overkill, and you'd be better off getting electric tools and a smaller compressor.

agreed! - body work and/or painting on cars in really the one area where you really need 2-stage at home

get that Kobalt compressor I recommended and use the difference for some kickass cordless tools or a good vise or bench grinder or drill press!

 

[CoopVA]

So then, the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) are you saying: yes the Two stage IR at that price is a good idea or no it is a waste of cash?

That's a pretty good deal, and about exactly what I'm looking for too... I am looking at Craigslist to see if there are any older used USA compressors out there. There seems to be and a similar used 2 stage 60-80 gallon is going for about $500. I'd have to see it running though...

The C-Man 30 gallon single stage I have isn't cutting it for me at all...


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[Toymeister]

Too much info can be overwhelming or good.

This model http://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html is a two stage, assembled from world sourced parts. US tank, Pump from Italy, switch from Germany and yes motor from China. This might be a viable option

 

[CoopVA]

Too much info can be overwhelming or good.



This model http://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60-gallon-165-psi-two-stage-air-compressor-93274.html is a two stage, assembled from world sourced parts. US tank, Pump from Italy, switch from Germany and yes motor from China. This might be a viable option

I actually went to my local HF and took a look at it recently. It's not bad from what I can see. If I can't find a decent used one, I will be seriously considering this one.


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[CoopVA]

agreed! - body work and/or painting on cars in really the one area where you really need 2-stage at home

get that Kobalt compressor I recommended and use the difference for some kickass cordless tools or a good vise or bench grinder or drill press!

The Kobalt is single stage... The HF is a Two Stage....


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[PT Doc]

Keep,an eye on Lowes. Maybe you. An finagle a discount on the Quincy. I would go Quincy before IR based on online feedback and complaints on the IR products over the recent years. Searching on IR complaints will give you good reading. In all fairness do the same for Quincy since I have not read up recently. I did my research a few years ago.

 

[hemifalcon]

Find a decent used one on CL.. Be patient.. Get one that you can test out of course--and get a backstory on why it's being sold.. Also get a good look at the exterior condition of the tank and overall cleanliness.. Possibly get some information on the typical service interval of the compressor--The new ones you get without paying a lot of money are junk.

 

[sberry]

They work a long time and make air, so they are not as good as one that cost 2x, this isn't a mystery.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

I cannot answer that, you are looking at the sleaziest two stage IR makes, that's up to you, but you have to ask yourself, where are they cutting corners, when the reliable ones cost 2K?

They cut corners by putting 3hp pumps on 5hp compressors and run the hell out of them.

I remember replacing a 60gallon compressor at a gas well years back. I was replacing a "house-brand" compressor built up around a Swan pump, the kind that Puma uses. It had seen better days and was pumping a lot of oil. I was installing a new 5hp IR, except I recognized the pump as an older 3hp design, now belted up to a 5hp motor and running 1500rpm. I remember firing it up for the first time and wincing a bit. That thing was motoring. It did have synthetic oil in it, but was rated for 100% duty cycle, so six of one, half dozen of the other I suppose. I have no idea of the expected running life of the compressor, but I certainly would not have built it like that. The worst part about it was that it was a critically important machine providing instrument air to the controls on the valves inside the main hut. No air meant the well shut down, and it was a very involved and expensive process to get it back online. I had a small gas powered unit to keep everything running while I was replacing the 60 gallon unit and it konked out in the middle of the job. Knowing how important it was to keep air in the system, I panicked to get in the back of the pickup and hoisted myself into it by placing my left hand directly on the heat shield of the Honda motor powering it and lifting myself up. I jumped out hollering pretty quickly. Thankfully, it was mid-winter so I could ram my hand directly into a snow bank, but I could clearly read the backwards letters of the warning message stamped into the heat shield in the palm of my hand.

 

[wild cowboy]

The Kobalt is single stage... The HF is a Two Stage....

Exactly while you want the Kobalt - $500 is enough money to build a good single stage with Chinese parts, but it takes closer to $1500-2000 to build a great 2-stage

unless he is doing auto body work or painting in his home shop, he likely doesn't need a 2-stage.

 

[wild cowboy]

They cut corners by putting 3hp pumps on 5hp compressors and run the hell out of them.

I remember replacing a 60gallon compressor at a gas well years back. I was replacing a "house-brand" compressor built up around a Swan pump, the kind that Puma uses. It had seen better days and was pumping a lot of oil. I was installing a new 5hp IR, except I recognized the pump as an older 3hp design, now belted up to a 5hp motor and running 1500rpm. I remember firing it up for the first time and wincing a bit. That thing was motoring. It did have synthetic oil in it, but was rated for 100% duty cycle, so six of one, half dozen of the other I suppose. I have no idea of the expected running life of the compressor, but I certainly would not have built it like that. The worst part about it was that it was a critically important machine providing instrument air to the controls on the valves inside the main hut. No air meant the well shut down, and it was a very involved and expensive process to get it back online. I had a small gas powered unit to keep everything running while I was replacing the 60 gallon unit and it konked out in the middle of the job. Knowing how important it was to keep air in the system, I panicked to get in the back of the pickup and hoisted myself into it by placing my left hand directly on the heat shield of the Honda motor powering it and lifting myself up. I jumped out hollering pretty quickly. Thankfully, it was mid-winter so I could ram my hand directly into a snow bank, but I could clearly read the backwards letters of the warning message stamped into the heat shield in the palm of my hand.

Cool story! - and makes a great point!

If I am spending more than $500 on a compressor, I quickly start requiring a 1725-1755 RPM motor and a super slow pump RPM like 450-ish so that it is whisper quiet and lasts virtually forever!

 

[C96]

I would not pay a premium for IR's or Quincy's low cost compressors. They have had issues, as this is a classic case of high end brands slapping their label on cheap stuff.

Yup, totally agree here. Junk, the IR’s have proven this time and time again and Quincy is following in their footsteps. It’s a shame how they will tarnish their reputation just to sell cheap offshore compressors in the lower end market.

I cannot answer that, you are looking at the sleaziest two stage IR makes, that's up to you, but you have to ask yourself, where are they cutting corners, when the reliable ones cost 2K?

They cut corners by putting 3hp pumps on 5hp compressors and run the hell out of them.

Lol…but so true!

There also cutting corners by using cheap:

• Aluminum heads (as opposed to cast iron)
• Aluminum crankcase and cylinders (as opposed to cast iron)
• Aluminum rods with no inserts (as opposed to steel rods with bearing inserts)
• Standard type wrist pin (as opposed to needle bearings)
• 3 piston rings (as opposed to 4)
• Ball bearings (as opposed to tapered roller bearings)
• Reed valves (as opposed to disc valves)
• 56 frame 3450 RPM motors (as opposed to184T frame 1725 RPM)
• “SPL” rated motors (as opposed to HP rated)
• Little red push button for overload protection (as opposed to magnetic starter)
• Pressure switch to carry motor load (as opposed to magnetic starter)
• Pressure switch unloader valve (as opposed to centrifugal unloader valve)
• Components wired with electrical cord (as opposed to armored cable or metal flexible conduit)

And the list goes on!

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/page/page/504747.htm

 

[MacMcMacmac]

They sure did a great job talking up those knockoff Saylor Bealls. They do OK for homeowners and small shops, but under heavy use they have a lot of valve spring issues, have soft cranks, and sloppy small ends.

 

[wild cowboy]

Yup, totally agree here. Junk, the IR’s have proven this time and time again and Quincy is following in their footsteps. It’s a shame how they will tarnish their reputation just to sell cheap offshore compressors in the lower end market

Lol…but so true!

There also cutting corners by using cheap:

• Aluminum heads (as opposed to cast iron)
• Aluminum crankcase and cylinders (as opposed to cast iron)
• Aluminum rods with no inserts (as opposed to steel rods with bearing inserts)
• Standard type wrist pin (as opposed to needle bearings)
• 3 piston rings (as opposed to 4)
• Ball bearings (as opposed to tapered roller bearings)
• Reed valves (as opposed to disc valves)
• 56 frame 3450 RPM motors (as opposed to184T frame 1725 RPM)
• “SPL” rated motors (as opposed to HP rated)
• Little red push button for overload protection (as opposed to magnetic starter)
• Pressure switch to carry motor load (as opposed to magnetic starter)
• Pressure switch unloader valve (as opposed to centrifugal unloader valve)
• Components wired with electrical cord (as opposed to armored cable or metal flexible conduit)

And the list goes on!

please do continue the list!

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

I wouldn't hesitate to get the IR. I would definitely get it over the Kobalt that was mentioned.

 

[wild cowboy]

I wouldn't hesitate to get the IR. I would definitely get it over the Kobalt that was mentioned.

So you would go with the much the more expensive compressor that has had many reports of failure and issues here on GJ, as opposed to one that there doesn't seem to be any bad reports on, that is also much cheaper.

Well you just go for it, in the mean time, I will avoid problematic overpriced compressors, because I have good sense and take other folk's experiences as a warning.

You'll learn. Might just have to be the hard way, though.

 

[SeattleKent]

When I needed a compressor I went the Craigslist route. Found a used 60 gallon IR T30 for $400 (included to IR Impact Gun!). The thing is a beast.

Not sure if the old T30s are different than the ones they are selling today, but at least i can vouch for the old ones.

I like the two stage more than I expected. It gives me a little more reserve. Having the 60 gallon tank full at 175 PSI is a lot more air than 60 gallons at 100 PSI. I can sand blast longer before the motor kicks on. I've also had no trouble with the compressor keeping up while blasting.

My two cents worth.

 

[JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN]

So you would go with the much the more expensive compressor that has had many reports of failure and issues here on GJ, as opposed to one that there doesn't seem to be any bad reports on, that is also much cheaper.

Well you just go for it, in the mean time, I will avoid problematic overpriced compressors, because I have good sense and take other folk's experiences as a warning.

You'll learn. Might just have to be the hard way, though.

I haven't seen any overwhelming reports of failure on here and I've been a member much longer than you . I also grew up on a dual stage IR that my dad used for side jobs when he was still a painter, I trust the name and haven't been let down yet.

 

[muibubbles]

So what are recommendations for compressors in the 800-1200 range? I'm looking for something that can run 10-15cfm @ 80 psi for a sand blaster. It will be used occasionally and maybe some hobby auto body painting (3-5 cars)

Originally I was looking at the IR @ TSC but after reviews and some research I'm becoming more and more hesitant..
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp...iewedPDP&catalogId=10051&ddkey=http:ClickInfo

That $500 kobalt one seems like it may be okay but wont leave much room to grow... Is CL/auctions for older build units the best route?

oh I also have 3 phase if that changes anything or makes things cheaper.. ps I work solo so I'm not worried about sharing air supply with anyone else lol

 

[2mJps]

I have a single stage that we have had for years. My brother gave use a 2 stage last summer its like night and day. If you use it much 2stage is well worth it.

 

[wild cowboy]

I haven't seen any overwhelming reports of failure on here and I've been a member much longer than you . I also grew up on a dual stage IR that my dad used for side jobs when he was still a painter, I trust the name and haven't been let down yet.

actually, I have been a member here since 2006, just not this username, my old username was tied to a defunct email account, so never assume, Jr.

 

[redwrench60]

actually, I have been a member here since 2006, just not this username, my old username was banned after I trolled too much, so never assume, Jr.

Sorry I couldn't resist! LOL

 

[Loscaldazar]

http://www.zoro.com/i/G2885382/

This IR compressor would be a better bet. Completely built in the USA. All cast Iron pump with over sized bearings. Magnetic Starter.

 

[CompressorPros.com]

The big question is what you will be doing with the compressor. Maybe a 60 gallon single stage compressor would do the job for you, or if you need higher pressure, take a look at some two stage models. Add up your total CFM need and add 25% to make sure your compressor is big enough to do the job adequately.

Someone mentioned that all sub $1200? models will have Chinese pumps, and that isn't always the case. It does seem that most single stage pump manufacturing has moved to China, but BelAire, Chicago Pneumatic, and even the Harbor Freight US560V have Italian made two stage pumps.

 

[sberry]

He has 3 phase. It doesn't change his demands but there are lots of deals on them.