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SK QC Issues

Professional Tool User

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SK stuff made leading up to the bankruptcy is probably so so at best. As for finishing I bet Made in Taiwan stuff has an edge due to looser environmental restrictions. I've come across some posts that say the most consistent chrome finish for USA made tools probably goes to Snap on. Everyone is likely to have some imperfections here and there. As a Canadian, I had to contact Gray tools regarding some minor chrome plating imperfections on sockets I bought new. Otherwise, that chrome finish is as or more beautiful than Snap on's chrome finish.
 
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mudflap

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Oops..wrong pics..

Try these
 

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L.Cheapo

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of the SK tools i purchased new the few i've had any sort of issue with were direct from SK...

bought the 49pc 3/8" set plus some extras to expand the set, the sockets in the set were all good, the 21mm shallow is a great example of how a socket should look, the 24mm shallow, 15/16 and 1" shallow and deep all had the less than ideal (no pun intended) finishing of the socket broach leaving that weird rolled edge look in the middle

for example the 21 and 24mm side by side

24vuvdc.jpg


not something that actually bothers me enough to consider playing the warranty lottery hoping replacements look more like the 21mm

Maybe it's just the lighting, but it doesn't look like that socket on the left has much of a detent, and if it does, not nearly as much as the one on the right.
 

CR888

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Its very easy to sit behind the keyboard and sink the boot in. I see a 'fellow member' doing everything he can to address the issues people have with their tools. He's polite, accepting the concerns people have and explained the challenges of buying a mothballed plant & along with it the responsibility of EVERY tool previously sold. Let's be somewhat thankful Erick is fronting up & going beyond what many offshore tool co's would addressing concerns. I would feel far more comfortable dealing with a factory that has people like Erick on the ground and we should appreciate that. We are all human and can resolve anything showing care toward one another. Look at products like the SK-Xframes that reinvented the ratcheting wrench, they are capable of making excellent tools. Do you want to be the guy who sunk the boot in on a true 100% US tool co that is dealing with challenges and doing there best to address them...
 

RedneckWelder

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Its very easy to sit behind the keyboard and sink the boot in. I see a 'fellow member' doing everything he can to address the issues people have with their tools. He's polite, accepting the concerns people have and explained the challenges of buying a mothballed plant & along with it the responsibility of EVERY tool previously sold. Let's be somewhat thankful Erick is fronting up & going beyond what many offshore tool co's would addressing concerns. I would feel far more comfortable dealing with a factory that has people like Erick on the ground and we should appreciate that. We are all human and can resolve anything showing care toward one another. Look at products like the SK-Xframes that reinvented the ratcheting wrench, they are capable of making excellent tools. Do you want to be the guy who sunk the boot in on a true 100% US tool co that is dealing with challenges and doing there best to address them...

Some people have nothing better to do than complain about everything, no matter how it is addressed if it’s an actual issue or if it’s something the voices in their head tells them is wrong. Nothing in the world is going to make these people happy. The worst ones will even completely fabricate a story so they will have something to ***** about or give them a talking point to jump in on a thread. Usually with some time on a forum you can sniff the BS out without too much trouble.

One of the boards I used to be active on the mods finally instituted a rule where if you had a complaint about quality of a product or service you had to contact the manufacturer or dealer for an attempt at resolution and detail that attempt if you started a thread on the item. It really cut down on a lot of the ******** threads especially when 90% of the issues were resolved by the company with just a phone call or email.
 

Tonyuk

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Scotland
Those sockets don't look too bad, certainly usable although i can see why people are concerned considering you can get cheap tools that are well finished easily.

It would be good to have something like SK etc.. over here, we have King **** who sell some decent kit, however their range is pretty limited. Those X-frames look excellent, too expensive here unfortunately.
 

highland512

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Some people have nothing better to do than complain about everything, no matter how it is addressed if it’s an actual issue or if it’s something the voices in their head tells them is wrong. Nothing in the world is going to make these people happy. The worst ones will even completely fabricate a story so they will have something to ***** about or give them a talking point to jump in on a thread. Usually with some time on a forum you can sniff the BS out without too much trouble.

Truth!!!
 

buckwheat_la

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SK stuff made leading up to the bankruptcy is probably so so at best. As for finishing I bet Made in Taiwan stuff has an edge due to looser environmental restrictions. I've come across some posts that say the most consistent chrome finish for USA made tools probably goes to Snap on. Everyone is likely to have some imperfections here and there. As a Canadian, I had to contact Gray tools regarding some minor chrome plating imperfections on sockets I bought new. Otherwise, that chrome finish is as or more beautiful than Snap on's chrome finish.


I agree with the Gray assessment. I have to wonder why Gray doesn't try for more presence in the USA? With the exchange on the dollar I am sure they would do well.
 

buckwheat_la

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Its very easy to sit behind the keyboard and sink the boot in. I see a 'fellow member' doing everything he can to address the issues people have with their tools. He's polite, accepting the concerns people have and explained the challenges of buying a mothballed plant & along with it the responsibility of EVERY tool previously sold. Let's be somewhat thankful Erick is fronting up & going beyond what many offshore tool co's would addressing concerns. I would feel far more comfortable dealing with a factory that has people like Erick on the ground and we should appreciate that. We are all human and can resolve anything showing care toward one another. Look at products like the SK-Xframes that reinvented the ratcheting wrench, they are capable of making excellent tools. Do you want to be the guy who sunk the boot in on a true 100% US tool co that is dealing with challenges and doing there best to address them...

Some people have nothing better to do than complain about everything, no matter how it is addressed if it’s an actual issue or if it’s something the voices in their head tells them is wrong. Nothing in the world is going to make these people happy. The worst ones will even completely fabricate a story so they will have something to ***** about or give them a talking point to jump in on a thread. Usually with some time on a forum you can sniff the BS out without too much trouble.

One of the boards I used to be active on the mods finally instituted a rule where if you had a complaint about quality of a product or service you had to contact the manufacturer or dealer for an attempt at resolution and detail that attempt if you started a thread on the item. It really cut down on a lot of the ******** threads especially when 90% of the issues were resolved by the company with just a phone call or email.


I agree that some people are just complainers and that SK Eric is doing a great job addressing concerns. I have a lot of respect for someone who puts themselves out there like that. That being said, I think you are being willfully blind if you don't acknowledge that there seems to be a general problem with SK quality and quality control.

I don't really have a dog in the fight as I have chosen not to invest in the SK product line. Mostly because of a abundance of threads like this. I look at brands like Snap-On and Proto (and even Gray in Canada) and almost everyone can agree they make a tool that a professional can use hard. Then I look at brands like Gearwrench, Stanley, Blackhawk, and misc other tool brands that come from Taiwan or China, and the biggest complaint/ Issue with them is where they were made more so than quality.

Then we have SK, that everyone wants to be a poor mans Snap-On. Lets make sure we are under no illusions, it's not. It doesn't seem to even reach Proto/Gray quality. So we look at those imports, are they better than Taiwan/China? I haven't seen any definitive proof that they are.
 

sk farmer

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Some people have nothing better to do than complain about everything, no matter how it is addressed if it’s an actual issue or if it’s something the voices in their head tells them is wrong. Nothing in the world is going to make these people happy. The worst ones will even completely fabricate a story so they will have something to ***** about or give them a talking point to jump in on a thread. Usually with some time on a forum you can sniff the BS out without too much trouble.

One of the boards I used to be active on the mods finally instituted a rule where if you had a complaint about quality of a product or service you had to contact the manufacturer or dealer for an attempt at resolution and detail that attempt if you started a thread on the item. It really cut down on a lot of the ******** threads especially when 90% of the issues were resolved by the company with just a phone call or email.

well said. there are several in every one of these topics, including this one. it is pretty easy to tell who they are after a while. they may even say something that makes sense once in a while but most of what they say is ********.

as far as the picture with the 2 sockets......

they may be made slightly different and you may prefer one over the other but as far as fit or function. once you flip it over and put the business end to work i dare you to prove to me that it doesn't work.

if you are filling all of the spots in a hansen tray and want a perfect view/match for your well organised man cave your experience may be different.
 

scubadoober

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of the SK tools i purchased new the few i've had any sort of issue with were direct from SK...

bought the 49pc 3/8" set plus some extras to expand the set, the sockets in the set were all good, the 21mm shallow is a great example of how a socket should look, the 24mm shallow, 15/16 and 1" shallow and deep all had the less than ideal (no pun intended) finishing of the socket broach leaving that weird rolled edge look in the middle

for example the 21 and 24mm side by side

not something that actually bothers me enough to consider playing the warranty lottery hoping replacements look more like the 21mm

You aren't serious about warranty are you? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that socket. I own nothing SK, but this piling on is getting ridiculous. I am beginning to wonder if some are posting just to get a PM from Eric, and avoid any leg work of replacing cosmetically imperfect sockets. Rust.....I get it, but come on girls you are all very pretty and shouldn't need all this attention.
 
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dthor68

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Not sure what your point is? But to clarify my point, can someone list off any specific quality that makes SK superior than brands like Tekton and Gearwrench

For me it came down to SK VS Gearwrench. I actually chose Gearwrench over SK. I bought a single SK wrench that also had rust on it. Most of all though is the fact that they still sell those huge clunky ratchets. People love those ratchets, not sure why? When I was a teen using my fathers tools, I always had an SK socket attached to a Craftsman ratchet. The LP-90 almost dragged me in but they still have nothing in 1/2" or 1/4". I am very happy with Gearwrench. As far as being built in the USA, that has no bearing on me. I have bought cheap stuff built in China that outlasted my USA made stuff at half the price. Like my currant washer AND dryer, total ****!
 

kythri

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Folks, I'm really not trying to be pedantic, but SK Eric has posted in this thread. His name is on display for all to see. It's not Erick. It's not Erik. It's Eric.

Good grief.
 

Mgdoug3

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My SK 40970 1/4" drive I bought new is slightly off centered. It does not affect the performance at all and the chrome is perfect. It's a great ratchet that replaced my Craftsman and Snap-on TM70B. I will continue to buy SK ratchets because for me, they feel the best in my hands. I'll pick up my 40 tooth 45170 over my GW120xp. I have ten SK ratchets in all and still looking for more.
 

AmishFury

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You aren't serious about warranty are you? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that socket. I own nothing SK, but this piling on is getting ridiculous. I am beginning to wonder if some are posting just to get a PM from Eric, and avoid any leg work of replacing cosmetically imperfect sockets. Rust.....I get it, but come on girls you are all very pretty and shouldn't need all this attention.

let me quote the part you might want to read again... i'll bold some parts to make it easier

not something that actually bothers me enough to consider playing the warranty lottery hoping replacements look more like the 21mm
 

DerekV

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I can't say. When we bought SK, we got what was the content of a mothballed plant. Much of the inventory was not good, because of poor machine maintenance, so it was scrapped. There was a ton of inventory out there at former SK dealers, which we see on eBay and Amazon. We understand that when we bought the brand, we also bought the warranties of every tool ever made, so we do get a lot of returns that we didn't make in Sycamore. We have rebuilt/refurbished/replaced machinery of our most commonly-made tools, and have had generally excellent quality and consistency on those. We can't do anything about New Old Stock that's out there being sold. We would hope that our current dealers would return the bad 'OldCo' stuff (as we call it internally) for replacements.

There are a few legacy manufacturing processes that we don't love, and are changing over time.

Serious question: why do the replacement sockets still suffer from the same quality issues as the defective ones? Unless the customer service department is picking through the OldCo bins, I still think you have socket QC issues. A few months ago I ended up returning well over $300 worth of sockets to one of your vendors since so many (~60-70%) were defective, including the replacements that I received directly from SK. That's not good.

I've purchased a few other non-socket things from SK before this and I was impressed with the quality, but honestly after the socket rigamarole...SK dropped off my radar...and I love tools. Still rooting for ya though :beer: don't fall asleep on this one :shocking:
 

DadsTools

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I have some feelings regarding S-K so I figured I'd chime in, even though I don't do any serious mechanical work anymore. The only late model S-K stuff I've handled are from yard/estate sales. The ones I've seen with the dot between the initials all look very nice. I sell them off because I have no reason to keep them. My first-line combo DOE and DBE wrenches are S-K 1950s-60s from the old Lectrolite plant in Defiance OH. Some of these have traces of weak chrome in box broaching that are apparently hanger artifacts, so what S-K Eric said about antiquated equipment and processes makes sense to me, since Ideal inherited the Defiance plant. Some dubious product was coming out of that plant in the years immediately before Ideal, and from what I've seen, Ideal has corrected a lot of those issues.

S-K's decision to honor warranties on all product, sales receipt or no, even that which was made prior to Ideal is exemplary, and it should be honored for that. It didn't have to do that, you know.

I think some problems are coming from the SuperKrome. Never cared for this approach, but I understand the marketing pressures for going that way. Some buyers feel that super-shiny polished is good. It's a feature of modern tool making. I can't imagine trying to pull this off with old Lectrolite equipment and processes. And as mentioned before, overseas factories don't have the same environmental restrictions. I remember in the office furniture business as USA mfrs moved away from chrome framed seating to powder coating because the regulations made chroming + disposal of the chemicals just too expensive and involved. I'd rather pay less for the same item in satin finish, but that's just me. If you're trying to sell a USA product with heavy chrome at a certain price point, especially against the China stuff where the government has less issue with poisoning its own land and people (you should read about what goes on in the computer component mfg processes over there), that can be quite a challenge.

To some, made in USA means something. I'm one of those. To some others it doesn't, and I get that too. For those who care about a USA-made product, I can understand their willingness to overlook minor imperfections, especially when it comes to an old-time traditional brand like S-K. But I can also understand the frustration with defective product, since one of the ideas behind USA product is supposed to be superior quality.

Yes, there are a few GJ members that are like piranha--when they smell blood in the water, they come out of the shadows to pounce on the victim. I've seen it in far too many threads. Personal unhappiness and frustration seeking an outlet plus the need to make one's self feel fulfilled at the expense of others. But for the most, I think the complaints about S-K quality control are motivated, not by simply wanting to knock the company, but by the idea that they WANT S-K to succeed. They WANT S-K to make products in the USA that we can all be proud of. They don't want to see it go the way of so many other USA tool companies. They want the pride of ownership that should come with tools made by a long-standing USA company. Persistent quality control issues makes staying in that marriage more difficult--you can only forgive your spouse for cheating on you so many times before you call it quits.

I think there are many of us who sincerely hope in out heart of hearts that S-K can resolve whatever quality control issues it might be having before the fan base erodes too much. We don't want or need to lose another grand old USA company.
 
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M6erfan

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...Yes, there are a few GJ members that are like piranha--when they smell blood in the water, they come out of the shadows to pounce on the victim. I've seen it in far too many threads. Personal unhappiness and frustration seeking an outlet plus the need to make one's self feel fulfilled at the expense of others. But for the most, I think the complaints about S-K quality control are motivated, not by simply wanting to knock the company, but by the idea that they WANT S-K to succeed. They WANT S-K to make products in the USA that we can all be proud of. They don't want to see it go the way of so many other USA tool companies. They want the pride of ownership that should come with tools made by a long-standing USA company. Persistent quality control issues makes staying in that marriage more difficult--you can only forgive your spouse for cheating on you so many times before you call it quits.

I think there are many of us who sincerely hope in out heart of hearts that S-K can resolve whatever quality control issues it might be having before the fan base erodes too much. We don't want or need to lose another grand old USA company.

Exactly. Well said!
 

Sco Deac

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To take a broader view beyond SK, I would like to see Ideal Industries continue to thrive. The entire enterprise, based in Sycamore, Indiana, seems to be committed to admirable values in terms of quality, sourcing, ect. They also seem to take a long game strategic investor approach to their business. Publically traded companies and the financial private equity investors don't always do that.

This having been said, the niche the Ideal hand tool businesses and SK are seeking to fill is a brutally tough space. What are the long term impacts of the decline of Sears and the transitioning of the Craftsman brand on the some of their units, like Western Forge and Pratt-Read? It seems Ideal has been nimble enough to develop a strategy for the changing environment (maybe SK is part of the response to seeing a declining Sears...)
 

kngelv

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I have some feelings regarding S-K so I figured I'd chime in, even though I don't do any serious mechanical work anymore. The only late model S-K stuff I've handled are from yard/estate sales. The ones I've seen with the dot between the initials all look very nice. I sell them off because I have no reason to keep them. My first-line combo DOE and DBE wrenches are S-K 1950s-60s from the old Lectrolite plant in Defiance OH. Some of these have traces of weak chrome in box broaching that are apparently hanger artifacts, so what S-K Eric said about antiquated equipment and processes makes sense to me, since Ideal inherited the Defiance plant. Some dubious product was coming out of that plant in the years immediately before Ideal, and from what I've seen, Ideal has corrected a lot of those issues.

S-K's decision to honor warranties on all product, sales receipt or no, even that which was made prior to Ideal is exemplary, and it should be honored for that. It didn't have to do that, you know.

I think some problems are coming from the SuperKrome. Never cared for this approach, but I understand the marketing pressures for going that way. Some buyers feel that super-shiny polished is good. It's a feature of modern tool making. I can't imagine trying to pull this off with old Lectrolite equipment and processes. And as mentioned before, overseas factories don't have the same environmental restrictions. I remember in the office furniture business as USA mfrs moved away from chrome framed seating to powder coating because the regulations made chroming + disposal of the chemicals just too expensive and involved. I'd rather pay less for the same item in satin finish, but that's just me. If you're trying to sell a USA product with heavy chrome at a certain price point, especially against the China stuff where the government has less issue with poisoning its own land and people (you should read about what goes on in the computer component mfg processes over there), that can be quite a challenge.

To some, made in USA means something. I'm one of those. To some others it doesn't, and I get that too. For those who care about a USA-made product, I can understand their willingness to overlook minor imperfections, especially when it comes to an old-time traditional brand like S-K. But I can also understand the frustration with defective product, since one of the ideas behind USA product is supposed to be superior quality.

Yes, there are a few GJ members that are like piranha--when they smell blood in the water, they come out of the shadows to pounce on the victim. I've seen it in far too many threads. Personal unhappiness and frustration seeking an outlet plus the need to make one's self feel fulfilled at the expense of others. But for the most, I think the complaints about S-K quality control are motivated, not by simply wanting to knock the company, but by the idea that they WANT S-K to succeed. They WANT S-K to make products in the USA that we can all be proud of. They don't want to see it go the way of so many other USA tool companies. They want the pride of ownership that should come with tools made by a long-standing USA company. Persistent quality control issues makes staying in that marriage more difficult--you can only forgive your spouse for cheating on you so many times before you call it quits.

I think there are many of us who sincerely hope in out heart of hearts that S-K can resolve whatever quality control issues it might be having before the fan base erodes too much. We don't want or need to lose another grand old USA company.

Nice post! I pretty much agree with everything you said. I too am rooting for SK and am willing to give them some time. I agree though that no one should get a warranty replacement that has obvious issues. They might want to look at the employee who handles their warranty process. People keep referencing Snap-On and Proto as if they never have quality issues. I work for a major American auto company and we primarily use these two for tool purchases. I have seen issues with both. We also occasionally see Westward wrenches which are from Taiwan and again issues arise occasionally. I will say the Proto without a doubt are the worst as far as pliers - especially cutters - that I have seen from any American manufacturer and nearly every overseas one too. Their diagonal cutters and linesman’s pliers are issued to our electrical apprentices and are stiff, clunky, have poor leveraging and cut like ****. I’m a journeyman electrician and I directed my current apprentice as well as previous ones to Klein, Channelock and Knipex for decent pliers.

James
 

BDT/NWMN

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When is the chrome on that wrench going to splinter and slice My finger open?
Those wrenches are chromed to prevent rust and give them an attractive appearance. That chrome job fails on both accounts.

You can draw a line and take a stand on either side of it:
The not fussy people.
The dang right I give a damn side.

I would not stand for a wrench that looks like that.
 

M6erfan

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when is the chrome on that wrench going to splinter and slice my finger open?
Those wrenches are chromed to prevent rust and give them an attractive appearance. That chrome job fails on both accounts.

You can draw a line and take a stand on either side of it:
The not fussy people.
The dang right i give a damn side.

I would not stand for a wrench that looks like that.

tool polisher!!! :)
 

BDT/NWMN

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tool polisher!!! :)


Yes Sir!!:beer:

I stand with the recently formed SK under Ideal in their efforts to rid fellow tool polishers of some occasionally shameful SK tools that were produced by the former owners, along with any current goof-ups.

Being SK is not part of the not fussy group; I will leave the gate open for future SK purchases.
 

Wamsutta

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I would like to see S-K raise their prices so that they can afford to buy the modern machinery necessary to make quality tools. It seems they invested heavily into new machinery to make their new state of the art ratcheting wrenches, but are leaving their sockets to be made by old decrepit machines.
 

Sco Deac

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I would like to see S-K raise their prices so that they can afford to buy the modern machinery necessary to make quality tools.

This isn't how business works. Not every input cost or capital investment can be passed on to the consumer. The market dictates the prices at which consumers will buy the tools. They have to find a way to deliver those tools to market at costs sufficiently under those prices to yield a suitable profit.
 

Wamsutta

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This isn't how business works. Not every input cost or capital investment can be passed on to the consumer. The market dictates the prices at which consumers will buy the tools. They have to find a way to deliver those tools to market at costs sufficiently under those prices to yield a suitable profit.

That's exactly why S-K needs to get into a different market.
 

seagravedriver

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I bought a 3/8 standard and metric, deep and standard set. Then I bought another for our middle son for a graduation present, then I bought the 1/4 inch set. The box is stained with grease, the ratchets are picking up the concrete floor racing stripes. They fit and they work.
 

Wamsutta

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Lol. That sounds ignorant. What market do you think they should pivot to?

The market that caters to clientele who are quality conscious above price conscious; i.e., manufacturing businesses, contractors, the professional mechanic, the military, and serious DIYers that want high quality.
 

M6erfan

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The market that caters to clientele who are quality conscious above price conscious; i.e., manufacturing businesses, contractors, the professional mechanic, the military, and serious DIYers that want high quality.

Yeah, because manufacturing and military NEVER go for the lowest bidder...:rolleyes:
 

AceofSpad3s

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The market that caters to clientele who are quality conscious above price conscious; i.e., manufacturing businesses, contractors, the professional mechanic, the military, and serious DIYers that want high quality.

Are they not already targeting that demographic by being an industrial brand along with the likes of Proto and Wright?
Smart customers will know that in the long run, quality saves them money.

Government spending money wisely is an oxymoron :)
 
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Wamsutta

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Are they not already targeting that demographic by being an industrial brand along with the likes of Proto and Wright?

I don't believe so no. I think they are targeting the Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, and HF demographic. The same demographic that GearWrench is targeting.
 

AceofSpad3s

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I don't believe so no. I think they are targeting the Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, and HF demographic. The same demographic that GearWrench is targeting.

When you mentioned that earlier I thought you were just joking about the finishing.
Their prices are closer to that of Williams, Proto and Wright more than to gearwrench. I don't think the HF/Craftsman buyers even know about them either, so I don't see the connection.

They might have some QC/finishing problems but I imagine the steel they are using is better than gearwrench for sure and probably around the same as the 3 companies I previously mentioned.
 

Wamsutta

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When you mentioned that earlier I thought you were just joking about the finishing.
Their prices are closer to that of Williams, Proto and Wright more than to gearwrench. I don't think the HF/Craftsman buyers even know about them either, so I don't see the connection.

They might have some QC/finishing problems but I imagine the steel they are using is better than gearwrench for sure and probably around the same as the 3 companies I previously mentioned.

I think their prices are in between the Williams, Proto, Wright marketing segment, and that of GearWrench. S-K needs to decide whether they're going for the low baller market, or the high quality professional market. By targeting both markets, the low ballers say the tools are too expensive, and the high quality customers are saying the quality isn't good enough.
 

BDT/NWMN

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
3,762
Location
Erskine, Mn
I don't believe so no. I think they are targeting the Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, and HF demographic. The same demographic that GearWrench is targeting.

SK, Proto, Wright, and USA Williams are in a league above the dime store stuff You mentioned.
 

B_Bimmer

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
1,870
Location
Eastern Iowa
I read as much as I could stand, but the moral of this it seems to be that garage journal has been overtaken by drivel who only look at tools, and rarly if ever actually use them. The facts are that SK makes great tools that work and I have no doubt they will continue to improve under ideal. Better ownership does not exist. Quit whining on the internet and do something, SK will serve you well.
 
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