SK vs Snap-On Quality! Is There Really A Difference?

[M6erfan]

Do we know for a fact SK in its newest Ideal incarnation uses American steel and not import steel? Is that information published or readily accessible to the public?

Google is your friend...

According to their website "Made in the USA with American steel"

https://sktools.com/content/sktools/en_US/about.html

So yes, the info is readily accessible to the public and published on SK's website.

 

[drtyler]

It's on their website and advertisements.

Do we know for a fact SK in its newest Ideal incarnation uses American steel and not import steel? Is that information published or readily accessible to the public?

 

[sweet victory]

To advertise made in USA, while using foreign steel would be illegal.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard

 

[Specs]

I wouldn’t know about all these QC, issues on S&K tools, simply because I ebay search” S-K wayne” and voila, tools that compare to snap on and innards don’t even show wear on which i buy, and honestly, I like that “rope band knurling” some sockets come with. I also don’t punish my tools hard enough (yet) to know if the s&k will last.

With cost in mind, I dont expect a S&K to last as long as a SO set, but i usually follow the rule of breaker bars in relation to sockets... i only expect about 200lbs torque for a 3/8 drive socket, About 400lbs on a 1/2”, and 40lbs on a 1/4” and im being gracious. If i need more torque in any scenario, I go up a drive size or impact the damn thing.

That being said, getting a SO impact set kinda trumps getting any other socket set from anyone cause they gonna do the real work. Any s-k i break, i place in an envelope and about 16 days later comes back as new latest socket. And. Since i get repeats of those sockets, never worry about downtime.

Quality control will always be an issue now that its a part of the business model, because you’ve given a margin in error that used to not be there, now companies CAN make a poor product to keep costs down, and warranty instead of making their product flawless. I keep a set of challenger proto tools in my car for repairs, and I swear despite it being from 70’s to 80’s performs like i just unwrapped them for Xmas 2017. I just swapped the ratchets out to rebuildable ones.

 

[sk farmer]

I'm not so sure about that. They put their detents in the correct spot; so therefore, their sockets don't aggravate me. There's a price to be paid for mental health.

 

[Specs]

I'm not so sure about that. They put their detents in the correct spot; so therefore, their sockets don't aggravate me. There's a price to be paid for mental health.

Having Peace of mind > Giving a Piece of my mind lol

 

[BDT/NWMN]

USA product, made with USA steel, sold at a USA price point.
Three reasons for Me to consider SK for a socket set purchase.

Poor quality or workmanship.
A reason to not consider SK.

For Me; SK competes with Proto, Snap-on, Wright, and USA Williams.
Five tool companies; with Snap-on often often set aside due to cost.
Four tool companies remaining; but Proto, Wright, and USA Williams have been making sockets with few, if any, issues for some time. SK under Ideal is more of a newcomer.
USA Williams is displayed in their catalog; but their ChiTaIwandia counterpart displayed next to them leaves Me wondering for how long.
Am I now down to Wright VS Proto?
No.
There are a host of USA tools that I can pick and choose from; and for particular tools; I have favorites.
This is My list.
Would I buy that ****** looking SK socket? No way.
I have better options.. Is SK a ****** tool company? Only if some ****** sockets make them so. Are All their sockets ******? No.. But if the ****** sockets shown represent what I would likely receive if ordering a set;;;;no thanks.. I have other options.

I have some Snap-on, Proto, and Wright sockets that are now disgusting to look at.
After 4 or 5 decades of use, they are showing their age. Even tho they may still do their intended job; some will soon be history. Replacing the entire set is uncalled for, and only replace the worn sockets. I just don't like to look at or use ****** looking tools.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

I just don't like to look at or use ****** looking tools.

1. A real man doesn’t whine.
2. A real man doesn’t worry about that which he can’t control.
3. A real man doesn’t fear the loss of love. He’s secure in his relationships.
4. A real man doesn’t wish he was walking in another man’s shoes.
5. A real man doesn't own ****** looking tools
   
   ...
   

 

[petercookies]

This is exactly why for sockets I went with Ko-ken several years back. Much less expensive than Snap On, heck much less expensive than SK, and excellent design/fit finish/durability/manufacturing quality.

I consider it a real shame that most guys here in the USA haven't heard of/tried Ko-ken. Maybe it's the "Asian-sounding" name; it's possible some assume it's Chinese/Taiwanese without investigating further.

As a company they make nothing but sockets and ratchets, and that hyper-focus shows. I've never in my life owned a ratchet that's smoother/more comfortable/more precise-feeling than my 2753P. The sockets are equally exceptional.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

1. A real man doesn’t whine.
2. A real man doesn’t worry about that which he can’t control.
3. A real man doesn’t fear the loss of love. He’s secure in his relationships.
4. A real man doesn’t wish he was walking in another man’s shoes.
5. A real man doesn't own ****** looking tools
   
   ...
   

6. A Real man doesn't buy tools online; and whine if they are ******. He simply returns them.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I consider it a real shame that most guys here in the USA haven't heard of/tried Ko-ken. Maybe it's the "Asian-sounding" name; it's possible some assume it's Chinese/Taiwanese without investigating further.

As a company they make nothing but sockets and ratchets, and that hyper-focus shows. I've never in my life owned a ratchet that's smoother/more comfortable/more precise-feeling than my 2753P. The sockets are equally exceptional.

VERY happy with my koken stuff, I just wish their sets were 100% inclusive. 13mm/9mm etc. I'd really like if they had more of a presence here.



Granted, all my SK stuff is fine. I had an issue with the drop in kit, warrantied. Blew up a flex head ratchet on a caliper bolt, warrantied. Dicked with the pre-load on the new 90tooth to get the reverse lever just how I liked it. That's the limit of my issues. 90 tooth ratchet is great, the issue with SK seems like just QC. I've had zero issues, others have lots.


I went through my sockets looking for any off center ones after reading all the SK complaint threads the last week. My worst/only obvious one is a snap-on low profile 16mm. Go figure.

 

[Tonyuk]

Koken makes a great spinner t handle also, can be had cheap enough from Amazon Japan,

KTC makes good made in japan long spanners, Nepros sockets are like small jewels how well they're finished. Expensive though.

 

[Xcursion88]

"In the end I just don't get the drama"

*Creates this thread*

[emoji23]

In general, today's SK sockets are junk. More so for the 1/4" and 3/8" drive sizes. Doesn't take a tool polisher to figure that out. It's disappointing, but nothing anyone here can do. Time to accept it and move on. /thread

Funniest thing I read all week. We have two companies in this massive shop here. Snap on and SK. That is it.
There isn't one thing from SK that can't match up against Snap on..nothing...unless you are talking tools NOT from the USA. Thats where Snap on gets the edge. You walk on that snap on truck and 20 percent of product is Asian (Blue Point) and a small percentage of SNAP ON stamped product made in Spain.

Sk...if it says SK it's 101 percent USA made. Period.

 

[Xcursion88]

VERY happy with my koken stuff, I just wish their sets were 100% inclusive. 13mm/9mm etc. I'd really like if they had more of a presence here.



Granted, all my SK stuff is fine. I had an issue with the drop in kit, warrantied. Blew up a flex head ratchet on a caliper bolt, warrantied. Dicked with the pre-load on the new 90tooth to get the reverse lever just how I liked it. That's the limit of my issues. 90 tooth ratchet is great, the issue with SK seems like just QC. I've had zero issues, others have lots.


I went through my sockets looking for any off center ones after reading all the SK complaint threads the last week. My worst/only obvious one is a snap-on low profile 16mm. Go figure.

Nor suprprising whatsoever. They both have to be within a plus or mimus to get out the door. As long as the 16 mm from SO fits without rounding off who cares.
There are things I like from each one...but to say one is superior is foolish.

If SO didn't have tool truck service built into the prices they would be close to the SK price.

Most people don't understand that. The high prive of the tools is in there to protect their franchise truck people. Thats it.

Take a SK price and compare to Snap on. THat difference is about the amount the owner of the truck who stops every week and warrants things on the spot and finances personally through you...that difference is about his profit.

Might seem like a lot but he has to pay for fuel, tires, inventory, the financial risk of extending credit on a hand shake...

SK the trucks are few far between.

Quality....spot on to both.

I use SK sockets with Snap on ratchets. WHy?

Getting a 3/8 socket of Snap on off with oily fingers or oily socket is a huge pain in the ***. Reading the size stamped on snap on sockets **** too.

SK sockets have a nice undercut into the socket and the size you can't mistake what it says.

PLus the extra deep undercut and sizing stamp helps grip when pulling a socket off the ratchet.

 

[Xcursion88]

I bought some SK 6 point sockets in 3/8" & 1/2" drive early this year & was pleased, the only thing I seen that needed improvement was the size stamping, it's not as deep as it should be for easy identification.

LOL..
you never seen Snap on then,,

you want to talk to about stamping for the blind...they should come with brail. Moreover getting a SO socket off when oily is a huge PITA....

SK the undercut and size cut outs provide a nice grip

both just as strong.

 

[Ilikeike]

I have some older 1990s? SK sockets and wrenches and some brand new socket sets I just got, looks to me like their quality has improved lately.

I stayed away from SK ratchets except for one of my Grandfathers from the 1960s because I don't like the round head.
If I need a new 3/8" I would like to try the new SK LP90, it looks nice. But I just bought all new SO ratchets.

For the money and my hot rod home hobby use, SK sockets are what I've been buying this last year to replace my old US Craftsman/Proto hodge podge sets.

Unless you have a real good weekly allowance,
for the semi-pro home DIY'er, SK

 

[xin]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder View Post
Tool manufacturing is a tiny side show to the American manufacturing scene. The fact that China figured out how to make sockets decently well shouldn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

What concerns me is areas like commercial aircraft. The US has one manufacturer of large commercial aircraft and they happen to be focused on just 3 models, one is 50 years old, one is 30 years old and one is 10 years old. How long will it be til China stops making trinkets and focuses on a clean-sheet half-price 737 competitor?

NO need to worry - as PLANES/TRUCKS/CARS/OIL/GAS/Natural GAS/is all going away.

They say everyone will use stone wheels with bamboo carts. Tools will be made from rocks/stones as well. Of course there rationing as the 'rocks/stones' will start to end the planet in revolt....

 

[Farmall450]

The only thing in your comparison is that SO has 10x the ratchet. $450 is ridiculous for that small set.

 

[Specs]

As someone who loves torture test on the tools we buy, I always wondered why if a 3/8 Drive 19mm socket on a 18” flex head ratchet breaks while trying to undo a crank bolt (hondas are infamously hard to remove) the author of the review calls the socket or drive head or ratchet junk, poor reviews, etc,etc? And conversely what survived, quality?

I wouldn’t trust that ratchet until the truck guy came through, or mail it out to S-K cause thats how their warranties work. It wasn’t meant for that work. Know it also doesn’t guarantee the next tool will perform the same. I’ve been using the same G2 series craftsman USA 3/8 metric sets since 2003, never replaced or stripped or rebuilt. Some pitting on the coating, thats it. Does that mean I can’t break a socket doing 180lbs of force? Nope. Means I step up to a half size drive and keep it moving. I also have Snap on Impact and S-K Chromes in my box and treat them equally because they have different important jobs. If I rounded off or split a socket doing a drain bolt or ac compressor bolt or alternator bolt, I’d cry foul for sure. But thats just me


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[AceofSpad3s]

Snap on is probably better, good enough to ever matter strength wise? Probably not to 98% of people.
I can't recall when, if ever breaking a non consumable non electric hand tool, if you are a buffoon who makes a habit of trying to remove semi truck lug nuts with 1/4 ratchets then perhaps it might make a difference, but even those of us with those icky lowly old craftsman USA socket probably have done quite a bit of work without having sockets spontaneously exploding with the force of a small nuclear device destroying the work and killing your dog.

 

[Specs]

I always wanted to Remove a BMW wheel studs with a 17mm 1/4” socket on a FLL72 ratchet LMAO...i’ll keep small woodland creatures behind the sandbags

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Make sure to contact some other companies to supply you with some free samples and film it so you can reel in those you tube advertising bucks with click bait comparisons between Snap On and whatever start up of tool company of the week.
Don't forget the royalty free generic rock intros as well.

 

[Specs]

Make sure to contact some other companies to supply you with some free samples and film it so you can reel in those you tube advertising bucks with click bait comparisons between Snap On and whatever start up of tool company of the week.
Don't forget the royalty free generic rock intros as well.

Bluesy Riffs for me, so viewers know I mean business.

I am a S-K tool member and i love the discounts on the good tools, but that doesnt make me a hypocrite, because they do not make any air tools. None. Zip. Not even rebadged IR. I admit i trolled S-K in emails because their tools will probably last the test of time, YET the first thing any of my co workers will see is the SNAP ON IMPACT GUNS FIRST

S-K dont like me

 

[HC33]

Yeah snap on makes better nicer ratchets. Better nicer everything really . they also have a bigger selection of tools then sk. I have both but i can tell you i really like the SK G Pro wrenches.

 

[logical]

I kinda already understood that Snap On makes really good stuff that is going to be better than SK under a magnifying glass.

But I am just a homeowner that works on his own vehickes and other stuff. I'm not going to spend $2500 for basic 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 socket sets, $600 for screwdrivers and store them in a $5000 toolbox.

I bought SK sets because they are a decent set, more than good enough to last my lifetime the way I use them at 1/3 the cost (a few years back you could find they pretty cheap on the Bay if you were patient). A few sockets had plating flaws show up early on so I sent them in and SK sent replacements. No issues since.





Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Handyandy23]

As an engineer who works at a company with in house manufacturing, those in my industry have a slightly different definition of quality. Quality is defined as the reduction of variability and the adherence to drawing requirements. It's something can be observed, measured, and quantified. (It's not the "it makes you feel good" ******** people always talk about)

I've noticed a decent amount of variability in the products I've received from SK. Some likely reasons would be:

1. The SK drawing is toleranced such that it allows for the variance, and that's why it passes through QC. At this point, it's not a QC problem, it's an engineering problem.
2. Their processes are no longer in control and their QC dept. needs to adjust their inspection sample sizes. I've seen this happen twice; a very experienced machinist gets promoted to a position their not qualified for, like a plant manager. The individual lacks the education and training to know how to implement statistics into a process.
3. The corporate culture is such that employees are pressured to pass junk to meet timelines.

That being said, my experience with Snap On has been consistent. Every ratchet I receive just seems to be identical to the next. From my sample size, their products don't seem to have much variability and the product just always seems to be flawless.

So if you want to get into the niddy griddy of it, yes. There is a distinct difference. SK has a wide range of variance, resulting in poor quality. SO has been consistently awesome.

^Ding ding ding!

This is how manufacturing works. And I would take this one step further and say that they don't necessarily have an "engineering problem" or "QC problem", it's quite likely that you get what you pay for, and tighter tolerances mean higher cost.

Of course SO should have higher quality and better repeatability than SK, because if they are both produced in the USA and we assume have the same people costs, then you are paying a higher price with SO for tighter tolerances and tighter quality control. The products are marketed and meant for different people.

It's just another choice for consumers that want to buy US-made and aren't professional mechanics / don't have a need or budget for something very high priced. It's naive to think you can get a US-made product for a third of the price that has similar tolerances and QC. As a consumer you have to decide what category you fall into - do you want US-made and highest quality with cost as no object, do you want US-made with lower quality at an affordable price, or do you want better quality at lower cost and don't care where it's made?

If SK were to improve their QC and have tighter tolerances, their prices would go up. You can't just improve your quality systems for free. Is that what people really want? What's the point of having several different companies making the same thing for the same price point? Having a budget priced US-made tool fits a niche in the market for people that are looking for just that. Complaining about chatter marks and minuscule machining flaws is like buying a Chevy Cruze and complaining that the interior finish quality doesn't match a Cadillac. Just because both are (were) made in the USA doesn't mean that you can expect equal quality for a third of the price.

 

[bonneyman]

Snap-On makes a good tool. It's just - of the ones I've personally handled - the added difference in capability never justified their added difference in cost.

Now I don't work on modern cars - in all honesty, I don't know how you young car mechanics do it. Perhaps that 4 deg of swing arc and 18" long handle makes a difference that I have not had to deal with. I say buy what works for you.

I prefer Bonney wrenching tools. But I "almost" despise their ratchets. Big, heavy, large diameter heads, clunky action. Much prefer S-K ratchets - really like the FACOM inspired TUFF 1 style.
And I have a Snap-On 13x15 DBE that hangs right next to me Bonney 13x15. Dang it if there aren't times when the Sanppy will fit into a place that the Bonney just won't. Just more proof that a mutt set of what works for ya is what you should go for.

 

[Strouty]

I know this is an old thread, never too late to chime in. I have SK and Snap On as well, both have some really great tools, no question about that. The comments about Snap On sockets being hard to read and hard to get off the ratchet are spot on. I don't having to look at a socket as close to tell what it is, but I like the fact that they are not going to fall off when I don't want them too.

 

[JulianMorrow]

A real man doesn't own ****** looking tools

The above seems counter-intuitive to me. If I see a guy with bright, shiny tools, I'll think: He doesn't use them very much.

 

[Shane6377]

I have both SK and Snap on tools that I have purchased in my lifetime and those I've received from my Grandfather. After 70 years of testing through use I can tell you that there is no difference in quality between the Snap on and SK tools in my toolbox. Same goes for Proto.


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[6PTsocket]

I wouldn’t know about all these QC, issues on S&K tools, simply because I ebay search” S-K wayne” and voila, tools that compare to snap on and innards don’t even show wear on which i buy, and honestly, I like that “rope band knurling” some sockets come with. I also don’t punish my tools hard enough (yet) to know if the s&k will last.

With cost in mind, I dont expect a S&K to last as long as a SO set, but i usually follow the rule of breaker bars in relation to sockets... i only expect about 200lbs torque for a 3/8 drive socket, About 400lbs on a 1/2”, and 40lbs on a 1/4” and im being gracious. If i need more torque in any scenario, I go up a drive size or impact the damn thing.

That being said, getting a SO impact set kinda trumps getting any other socket set from anyone cause they gonna do the real work. Any s-k i break, i place in an envelope and about 16 days later comes back as new latest socket. And. Since i get repeats of those sockets, never worry about downtime.

Quality control will always be an issue now that its a part of the business model, because you’ve given a margin in error that used to not be there, now companies CAN make a poor product to keep costs down, and warranty instead of making their product flawless. I keep a set of challenger proto tools in my car for repairs, and I swear despite it being from 70’s to 80’s performs like i just unwrapped them for Xmas 2017. I just swapped the ratchets out to rebuildable ones.

As I recall, Challenger was Proto's economy line. It is a sad state if they are better than some of today's high end stuff. It is an old saying that cheap drives better out of the market.

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[Mikeske]

The above seems counter-intuitive to me. If I see a guy with bright, shiny tools, I'll think: He doesn't use them very much.

My tools were always kept shiny but I worked on aircraft for thirty five years and they were kept spotless. Yeah scratched up was OK but the instant it showed any plating loss the tools were immediately replaced. My tools are kept that way to prevent foreign object damage to the aircraft. Even the slightest bit of plating loss on a aircraft can and does corrosion as it is a dissimilar metal to the aluminum on a aircraft.

Now that I am retired my tools are still kept that way

 

[Dieselhammer]

Depends what we're comparing, for the core stuff, sockets, ratchets and wrenches, SK is spectacular and in my mind the all out best trade off for quality per dollar. They make other stuff, but its not as spectacular, not really a fan of their screwdrivers, prybars, or plier line. When i first started wrenching on heavy diesels i bought the SK 1/4 and 3/8 master socket sets that come in a plastic blow molded case with all the deep and shallow, extensions, adapters and a ratchet. That was probably one of the best tool purchases i've ever made, they still get used daily and are especially handy when doing road service or mobile work.

 

[ngk22r]

I have both SK and Snap on tools that I have purchased in my lifetime and those I've received from my Grandfather. After 70 years of testing through use I can tell you that there is no difference in quality between the Snap on and SK tools in my toolbox. Same goes for Proto.


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How do you have 70 years of testing???

I get that you received some from your grandfather but you yourself don’t have 70 years of testing.

 

[CR888]

I laugh when folks mention SO tools cost so much due to higher quality materials & better QC. Many would convulse if they new what it really cost to produce say a $200 SO ratchet. The actual production cost would be WELL under 10% of msrp. Its not hard to make high quality tools, what is difficult is being able to penetrate the market & sell them. Marketing on costs would far exceed cost of production. If people new the the real costs involved with tools and the supply chain they would probably make different choices. Ignorance is bliss in this instance, Joe Blo public can justify his purchase in whatever way suits him, generally he'll never know what he's actually paid FOR.

 

[mudflap]

This thread is some serious click bate.

I want both cosmetics and quality. GearWrench makes some beautiful cleanly machined sockets, but they put the detents in the wrong spot and it aggravates me. Snap-on has never aggravated me ever. It's worth the premium for me to work on my car and not be bothered by my tools. That said, my MAC sockets and Proto sockets don't aggravate me either. There's a few companies out there that know how to make sockets very well and have been in business a long time. I don't know what's wrong with SK. They stay up too late at night and don't get enough sleep or something.

Do the GW sockets fit right on GW ratchets..? They must know their detents are in a different place than everybody elses...? And it's been that way for a long time...if it's a mistake, or QC problem it would have been corrected a long time ago, so what's the reason..?

 

[Specs]

As I recall, Challenger was Proto's economy line. It is a sad state if they are better than some of today's high end stuff. It is an old saying that cheap drives better out of the market.

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And you are 100% correct, they were sold on countertops of mom and pop shops while the “good stuff” had to be brought out from the back of the store or unseen shelves lol. Plastic joint cases, big old price point BOLDLY NOTICEABLE from inside the case, (i still got the cases) And the finish is nice as hell, for a “craftsman evolv” equivalent.

I just figured the challengers were “blems” that didnt meet the specs for the pro line, but was made in the same furnances, so why not right? Get a matte silver finish slap on a great price, make money on blems

I only wish they werent 12pt

 

[JulianMorrow]

I think this is a little hyperbolic - with every product the value/quality per dollar is not linear from top to bottom. There is a very big performance difference over a $5 Walmart set and a set of SK, but likely a much smaller performance difference going from SK to SO, but a large $$ gap.

It all comes down to what your needs and uses are. If you need to make one small repair on a bicycle and have no other use or desire for tools, that $5 Walmart set will likely do (and you also likely wouldn't notice the quality in better tools either). If you're a professional mechanic that uses and abuses your tools every day for a living, you'd break a $5 set in about 5 minutes, and you would notice and rely on high end quality, like SO.

The large majority of DIYers fall into the category in between. In my younger days I broke a lot of really cheap sockets, and quickly realized they aren't worth $5 if they can't perform the job I want them for. But if something like SK does perform the periodic DIY tasks I need, and they are a third of the price, then what is the point in buying something more expensive? Aside from superficial reasons, or just plain old buying something fancier than you need because you can afford it.

Point is that most people will buy the most affordable product that can perform that tasks they need. A $5 Walmart set isn't a fair comparison because it physically can't perform the same tasks that 95% of 'socket buyers' require. The SK can't perform under all the conditions of the SO, but those conditions are probably less than 5% of the socket-buying population.

Outstanding post above--the best post I've read on this board. Thank you Andy for articulating something that I've always believed but could never put into words.

 

[bonneyman]

It really comes down to perceptions and personal expectations. If a product supplies what you're looking for then it's worth it to you to pay more. Others might not see it quite that way - their perceptions are different and thus their willingness to part with their cash is lower.

I always liked the fact that Snap-On carried the repair kits for any ratchet they ever made. That showed that they were willing to take care of their customers even decades later. And I always thought that the reason for their higher prices were due to that dedication and keeping inventory.
When I bought my first S-K set in 1980, the truck guy said that they were "guaranteed against everything...but theft". "What if I wear them out?" He said, "Covered". I did swap out a couple due to chrome peel the first year or so - but still have that socket set today. Almost 40 years later. And have not had a problem with any of it.
And they've come out with the DX rebuild kits to basically double the tooth count. Rather than buy a whole new rat you can upgrade the one you've had for years and are comfortable with. Gotta give them credit for things like that.

 

[Specs]

S-K still takes care of their people like that, I recently had a 1/2” ratchet lose teeth on the tighten direction, it would only skip when you go harder than 30lbs of force. I emailed photos of the chewed up innards, and S-K sent me the complete unit instead of just the pawls and accessories... Now that I got a snap on guy I gotta break something first. I got a ton of rebuild kits from my DIY days too, I just need to buy a nice flex 3/8, and 1/2 dual 80 when i get a better position.

I really think having both companies in your box is the best of both worlds, especially since basic craftsman is China made now. Them stanleys are not rebuildable... bleh. I’m still holding out for the 1/2” deep impacts, the pro Harbor freights i got are holding up.