SK X-Frame Wrenches - COO & Design Changes

[Steve_P]

Yeah, it's not that all Chinese tools are junk. Rather, it's that all junk tools seem to be Chinese.

Ehhh. What about India? Almost all of our high-end battery power tools are made in China, Vietnam.... but they're somehow great. Why? Because companies like Milwaukee demand a high quality level and the sales price reflects that. If they can build a great cordless drill, I think they can make a great ratcheting wrench- but only if the purchasing company is willing to pay for it.

The Chinese, or anyone, can make good stuff if you are willing to pay for it, and give them quality manufacturing equipment and materials. The problem is that Americans want cheap ****, this is what sells, and this is mostly what China makes for us - since this is what our price point dictates. Don't blame them, blame us. I have some Strong Hand clamps, China made, and they are absolutely flawless... you couldn't make a nicer product anywhere.

And what about clothing? Higher end button-down shirts like Calvin Klein... are all made in third world countries, yet the quality is somehow perfect on every one that I have. Again, you couldn't make a better product anywhere. And there is certainly a lot more worker skill involved in making a button-down shirt than a wrench or socket. But you have to be willing to pay for it, and the company with their name on the product has to care about the quality. I'm sure a lot of absolute **** shirts come out of the same city, but it's not the fault of the production location.

edit- these wrenches may turn out to be absolute ****. But that's not because they're made in China, it's because Great Star didn't care to make a quality product.

 

[CGarage]

Apples to oranges comparison.

Textile production and associated skills are different from series manufacturing of mechanical devices like electric battery powered tools.

 

[Steve_P]

Apples to oranges comparison.

Textile production and associated skills are different from series manufacturing of mechanical devices like electric battery powered tools.

My point was that it is a lot easier to train a worker to make a wrench or socket than it is to make shirt or power tool. So, if a certain geographic location can make a high-quality shirt, or power tool, then I think they can make a high-quality wrench, which requires a lower skill level.

 

[neophyte]

Ehhh. What about India? Almost all of our high-end battery power tools are made in China, Vietnam.... but they're somehow great. Why? Because companies like Milwaukee demand a high quality level and the sales price reflects that. If they can build a great cordless drill, I think they can make a great ratcheting wrench- but only if the purchasing company is willing to pay for it.

The Chinese, or anyone, can make good stuff if you are willing to pay for it, and give them quality manufacturing equipment and materials. The problem is that Americans want cheap ****, this is what sells, and this is mostly what China makes for us - since this is what our price point dictates. Don't blame them, blame us. I have some Strong Hand clamps, China made, and they are absolutely flawless... you couldn't make a nicer product anywhere.

And what about clothing? Higher end button-down shirts like Calvin Klein... are all made in third world countries, yet the quality is somehow perfect on every one that I have. Again, you couldn't make a better product anywhere. And there is certainly a lot more worker skill involved in making a button-down shirt than a wrench or socket. But you have to be willing to pay for it, and the company with their name on the product has to care about the quality. I'm sure a lot of absolute **** shirts come out of the same city, but it's not the fault of the production location.

edit- these wrenches may turn out to be absolute ****. But that's not because they're made in China, it's because Great Star didn't care to make a quality product.

This isn’t really true.
To make a high quality product, a manufacturer needs access to certain things.
Quality materials are usually necessary, and availability will vary depending on country.
Natural materials sometimes only come from one country or region, so items made from certain materials can only be made in areas with access to those materials, either due to production of those materials in the area, or the ability to import those materials from where the materials are produced.
Some countries don’t allow export of some raw materials, in order to help the economy by having finished goods made from those materials made in country.
For technical things like quality steel, a manufacturer needs access to quality steel that is manufactured in country, and available, or the manufacturer needs to be able to import the steel from outside the country.
Some countries don’t have quality steel manufacturers.
Other countries like China have quality steel, at least for a lot of alloys, but that steel is only available to major manufacturers willing to purchase large quantities of steel, or to individuals with the right business connections who can get partial steel orders piggy backed onto the large steel orders.
(This is supposedly a major issue in China, were the major steel manufacturers may only take large orders of $250,000 or more, leaving smaller manufacturers purchasing sub standard steal from smaller manufacturers)
Manufacturers usually also need access to certain infrastructure, like quality and constant electrical or gas supplies, and those things might not exist in certain regions.
The same goes for materials like plastics used for injection molding, and various industrial finishes, and solvents, etc.
Then the issue of local competence of workers.
Manufacturers may be required to hire a certain percentage of local workers, and those workers need to be trustworthy, as well as competent to run the manufacturing process.
When Nicholson sent file production to Mexico, a large number of the files produced were completely unusable trash.
Supposedly the core steel was good, but some process got changed, resulting in files that were worse than $1 store Indian made files.
There are lots of other issues that can occur in manufacturing, but there is a reason high quality goods of certain types usually only come from certain areas, and that trying to change those areas sometimes results in complete ****.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I used the wrenches today tearing down an engine. They worked great and worked better than the Gearwrench set I bought. One of the GW locked up the first time I used it with very little effort. Some of the bolts went into aluminum housing so they can be tight. It was a good test and the ratchets never locked up and very little back drag. The open end is a little thicker than my Wrights and regular SK wrenches but that didn't matter working on a diesel engine. I had some corroded bolts that were slightly undersized. Occasionally having a reversible ratchet would have came in handy to get the nut off. Usually on those kind of bolts and nuts, I like to use a breaker bar or wrench to wiggle a fastener to decrease the chance of breaking it but I wanted to test out the ratchets.

As of now, the ratchets seem to be good quality and a good buy.

 

[boom10ful]

I had X-Frames at my old job. I really liked them. The box ends were a little big on the smaller sizes, but the ultra fine ratchet was awesome, and they felt great in the hand. If they had made a flex head or reversible (or both) variant, they would have been killer.

Mine were super nice wrenches and would always get compliments with their style and weight. But IMO they had too many teeth and that contributed to me going through 5 warranty wrenches before I gave up and sold them. Once they made me pay for shipping on the warranty wrench, then was the final straw for me.

 

[2oolhound]

This isn’t really true.
To make a high quality product, a manufacturer needs access to certain things.
Quality materials are usually necessary, and availability will vary depending on country.
Natural materials sometimes only come from one country or region, so items made from certain materials can only be made in areas with access to those materials, either due to production of those materials in the area, or the ability to import those materials from where the materials are produced.
Some countries don’t allow export of some raw materials, in order to help the economy by having finished goods made from those materials made in country.
For technical things like quality steel, a manufacturer needs access to quality steel that is manufactured in country, and available, or the manufacturer needs to be able to import the steel from outside the country.
Some countries don’t have quality steel manufacturers.
Other countries like China have quality steel, at least for a lot of alloys, but that steel is only available to major manufacturers willing to purchase large quantities of steel, or to individuals with the right business connections who can get partial steel orders piggy backed onto the large steel orders.
(This is supposedly a major issue in China, were the major steel manufacturers may only take large orders of $250,000 or more, leaving smaller manufacturers purchasing sub standard steal from smaller manufacturers)
Manufacturers usually also need access to certain infrastructure, like quality and constant electrical or gas supplies, and those things might not exist in certain regions.
The same goes for materials like plastics used for injection molding, and various industrial finishes, and solvents, etc.
Then the issue of local competence of workers.
Manufacturers may be required to hire a certain percentage of local workers, and those workers need to be trustworthy, as well as competent to run the manufacturing process.
When Nicholson sent file production to Mexico, a large number of the files produced were completely unusable trash.
Supposedly the core steel was good, but some process got changed, resulting in files that were worse than $1 store Indian made files.
There are lots of other issues that can occur in manufacturing, but there is a reason high quality goods of certain types usually only come from certain areas, and that trying to change those areas sometimes results in complete ****.

Not to worry neophyte as I understand it North America is the last continent that China has not extended it's Belt and Road initiative to. If Canada, US and Mexico finally jump on the band wagon we all could be part of China's network too. We just have to give them the best land bases for their huge harbor front loading terminals and in exchange they will build all the infrastructure needed to fulfill all the requirements you've outlined in your post and with a 30 or 40 year plan to repay the costs. I see even Germany has signed on now too. Once the Belt and Road initiative is complete all the world's natural resources can flow freely to China and all the finished products will flow freely back to all of us!

II think it's sad that the one thing that was truly an SK original in recent years is now produced in the PRC

and not to worry either Fred, I can see this going full circle, in 50 years they could be moving their manufacturing plants back to our shores and employing our children's children to make these tools here again! If the name's still there and if anybody cares we'd regain quality control then too.

This is called economic evolution. Either change and adapt to survive, or die.

Isn't this an oxymoron? If we change and adapt (give our business to foreign competitors) don't we then die? and conversely, by not doing so wouldn't we then at least still be surviving instead of dying?

At any rate I really like the look of these wrenches and kind of wish I'd bought some when they were made in the US but I already had all the ratcheting wrenches I need. They've always reminded me of my favorite wrench:



There X-Frame wrenches have a fragile look to them but then you think surely the engineers made sure they had the strength required near the cutouts to allow for the design.

It's nice to see some design flare instead of the "Better, Faster, Cheaper" tenement housing approach that is so common today.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

To those who have SK stuff in-store at their local Lowe’s, is any of it open stock? Or is it all sold as sets?

 

[CGarage]

3 pages of discussion…..



And NO SOLID ANSWERS to the original question.

 

[Steve_P]

If you actually want an answer, that you can believe, you are going to need to buy a new China set, and one of the old USA ones and evaluate for yourself. Or wait and see if PF will test them and do a comparison.

Most people here will just tell you the one that is stamped China is garbage, it broke when they opened the package, China can't make a ratchet, they can't make a wrench, their steel is junk, SK *****, Craftsman *****.... and then go trust their life to their HF jackstands

 

[BrandonV]

If you actually want an answer, that you can believe, you are going to need to buy a new China set, and one of the old USA ones and evaluate for yourself. Or wait and see if PF will test them and do a comparison.

Most people here will just tell you the one that is stamped China is garbage, it broke when they opened the package, China can't make a ratchet, they can't make a wrench, their steel is junk, SK *****, Craftsman *****.... and then go trust their life to their HF jackstands

Hey man! Those Daytona stands are dope!

 

[uncwstudent]

I saw a set of SK ratcheting wrenches in my store and tried the ratcheting mechanism on one wrench. It was pretty underwhelming, to be honest. I actually like Gearwrench wrenches better. The beams are kind of thick too.

 

[Steve_P]

This isn’t really true.
To make a high quality product, a manufacturer needs access to certain things.
Quality materials are usually necessary, and availability will vary depending on country.
Natural materials sometimes only come from one country or region, so items made from certain materials can only be made in areas with access to those materials, either due to production of those materials in the area, or the ability to import those materials from where the materials are produced.
Some countries don’t allow export of some raw materials, in order to help the economy by having finished goods made from those materials made in country.
For technical things like quality steel, a manufacturer needs access to quality steel that is manufactured in country, and available, or the manufacturer needs to be able to import the steel from outside the country.
Some countries don’t have quality steel manufacturers.
Other countries like China have quality steel, at least for a lot of alloys, but that steel is only available to major manufacturers willing to purchase large quantities of steel, or to individuals with the right business connections who can get partial steel orders piggy backed onto the large steel orders.
(This is supposedly a major issue in China, were the major steel manufacturers may only take large orders of $250,000 or more, leaving smaller manufacturers purchasing sub standard steal from smaller manufacturers)
Manufacturers usually also need access to certain infrastructure, like quality and constant electrical or gas supplies, and those things might not exist in certain regions.
The same goes for materials like plastics used for injection molding, and various industrial finishes, and solvents, etc.
Then the issue of local competence of workers.
Manufacturers may be required to hire a certain percentage of local workers, and those workers need to be trustworthy, as well as competent to run the manufacturing process.
When Nicholson sent file production to Mexico, a large number of the files produced were completely unusable trash.
Supposedly the core steel was good, but some process got changed, resulting in files that were worse than $1 store Indian made files.
There are lots of other issues that can occur in manufacturing, but there is a reason high quality goods of certain types usually only come from certain areas, and that trying to change those areas sometimes results in complete ****.

I don't really disagree, but the reality is that the Vietnam made Wiha bits were at the top of the PF tests in nearly every category, except price. How is that possible? It goes against everything you said. Maybe they import the steel from Germany, but they can still make a top of line bit in a third world country. Because Wiha owns the plant and controls it. And Vietnam isn't known for precision manufacturing or metallurgy.

 

[neophyte]

I don't really disagree, but the reality is that the Vietnam made Wiha bits were at the top of the PF tests in nearly every category, except price. How is that possible? It goes against everything you said. Maybe they import the steel from Germany, but they can still make a top of line bit in a third world country. Because Wiha owns the plant and controls it. And Vietnam isn't known for precision manufacturing or metallurgy.

I presume this is somewhat the situation.
Wiha can export quality steel to Vietnam, and also exported the same equipment they used in Germany to make the bits.
They provably also have German technicians on site yo make sure manufacturing processes are followed. (Other German manufacturers seem to do this as well).
This works in some countries, but not in others.

 

[CGarage]

Update???

 

[BrandonV]

Update???

They're okay. Like all things in life I'm sure you'll get fifty answers from fifty different people.

My biggest problem with ratcheting wrenches is the feel can be impacted by the type of grease they used in assembly and since most of them are sealed and not user serviceable you're at their mercy.

I've felt Proto and ProtoMex ratchets that are identical but felt totally different new because one was dry. With ratchets that is fixable.

 

[CGarage]

They're okay. Like all things in life I'm sure you'll get fifty answers from fifty different people.

My biggest problem with ratcheting wrenches is the feel can be impacted by the type of grease they used in assembly and since most of them are sealed and not user serviceable you're at their mercy.

I've felt Proto and ProtoMex ratchets that are identical but felt totally different new because one was dry. With ratchets that is fixable.

Why won’t ATF bath fix this, or a spray synthetic oil like Amsoil MP?

 

[BrandonV]

Why won’t ATF bath fix this, or a spray synthetic oil like Amsoil MP?

It will but it's sometimes a bandaid to the larger problem of hardened grease or insufficient grease.

Some ratcheting wrenches I've pressed off the cover to clean them out and repack with Super Lube.

 

[CGarage]

99 posts and still no comparison.

We want a showdown:


USA vs Chinese X Frame Ratcheting Wrenches.


I got 99 posts but a real comparison with photographic or video evidence ain’t one.

 

[Speed-Racer]

To those who have SK stuff in-store at their local Lowe’s, is any of it open stock? Or is it all sold as sets?

Only a few sets available at my store

 

[Speed-Racer]

A few pics of the imported x-frame set with the foam case. Excellent chrome and very fine gears. I would have purchased a larger set if offer at Lowe’s.
My most used will be the 8, 10 and 13. Wish they left some free space in the foam if I buy the 18 and 19mm Wrench.

 

[CGarage]

Mine just arrived.

Pretty nice for the money at ~ $49.00/set with free shipping.

The chrome is all even and nice.

I tried the box end ratcheting mechanism on four of them in both directions and they were smooooooth. Very finely geared.

The only slight complaint was the machining in the lightning cut area, on the inside of the beam, was not immaculate, but this is *inside* the lightning cut. This is me really really nitpicking.

 

[Fly YX]

Mine just arrived.

Pretty nice for the money at ~ $49.00/set with free shipping.

The chrome is all even and nice.

I tried the box end ratcheting mechanism on four of them in both directions and they were smooooooth. Very finely geared.

The only slight complaint was the machining in the lightning cut area, on the inside of the beam, was not immaculate, but this is *inside* the lightning cut. This is me really really nitpicking.

It was like that on the USA ones as well. I just got a set from Lowe’s a few days back. When I’m at work tomorrow I will take a picture of the older USA ones that I have.

 

[ohhimark]

Shows out of stock online for the wrenches and the socket set they had. Only the adjustable wrench set shows up in a search for SK tools. Weird.

 

[CGarage]

Shows out of stock online for the wrenches and the socket set they had. Only the adjustable wrench set shows up in a search for SK tools. Weird.

I ordered the adjustable wrenches as well. Very nicely made and I only have a slight problem with the 10” adjustable where the lower jaw is slightly off axis from the upper jaw when fully closed…..

 

[drtyler]

Mine just arrived.

Pretty nice for the money at ~ $49.00/set with free shipping.

The chrome is all even and nice.

I tried the box end ratcheting mechanism on four of them in both directions and they were smooooooth. Very finely geared.

The only slight complaint was the machining in the lightning cut area, on the inside of the beam, was not immaculate, but this is *inside* the lightning cut. This is me really really nitpicking.

Can you look at the wrenches and tell which way the box ends turn?

On the older USA wrenches, SK did not have an direction arrow.

 

[Mgdoug3]

Can you look at the wrenches and tell which way the box ends turn?

On the older USA wrenches, SK did not have an direction arrow.

There's no arrow for direction but the angle of the open end is the direction that turns the bolt or nut.

 

[AEAdam]

3 pages of discussion…..



And NO SOLID ANSWERS to the original question.

Because x-wrenches just aren’t that interesting. There are so many better wrenches on the market.

I view the x-wrench as the pinnacle of Ideal’s arrogance. They actually thought they could buy a respected brand name, then compete with truck tools and innovate a basic hand tool with no R&D, no experience, just a kid with a FEM.

And they didn’t even get that right. They left material where the Von Mises stresses were highest, but never did a free body diagram to understand what was really happening. The load in those unsupported arms isn’t just axial. There’s shear in there too.

There’s a reason why no other wrench manufacturer does this.

 

[Fly YX]

Here is some pictures of the USA made, and China made SK X frame. if you want more pictures, let me know. The 10mm China is a little bigger then the USA one.

 

[CGarage]

Lessons learned:


1) The marketing photos on websites are not actual representations of the product- both the original US version and the current version made in China.

2) The finish is excellent and the box end ratcheting mechanism on all of mine are smooth as silk.

3) These are very nicely made in China.

4) For $49 US for a set of 7, I am happy I bought these.

 

[CGarage]

Some pictures of the Chinese manufactured SK X-Frame wrenches (metric and SAE) just delivered to me via Lowe’s in USA.


ETA: The company in China that bought SK is no joke, it’s amazing to see what brands they now own:

Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial Co.,Ltd.

en.greatstartools.com

 

[CGarage]

Product specs on the new packaging.

Please note: this is for the Chinese manufactured SK wrenches now sold at Lowe’s in USA.

 

[M6erfan]

Here is some pictures of the USA made, and China made SK X frame. if you want more pictures, let me know. The 10mm China is a little bigger then the USA one.

Thanks for the pics. China made looks more lobster claw-ee to my eyes. USA made look slimmer/sleeker.

 

[pswallace]

This is a rewrite of my earlier reply. On 6/21/24, I emailed SK asking about where the tools are made. Here's the response.

"Chrome sockets, turbo sockets, pliers, and LP90 ratchets are made in the US along with a few other items. Most of our sets are made in the US of US and globally sourced components.
Combination wrenches, X-Frame wrenches, and impact sockets are made overseas."

Thank You
Customer Service
SK Tools USA, LLC
2323 Reach Road
Williamsport, PA 17701

 

[ohhimark]

The 10mm is new, the others were made before Great Star bought SK I believe. Assembled in the US of US and Global components. It doesn't look terribly different, the cutouts are shaped different, it ratchets quieter, still expensive.

 

[ChevyEFI]

"Combination wrenches, X-Frame wrenches, and impact sockets are made overseas."

Mmmmm mported Flexzone sockets

 

[CGarage]

2024 - August Update:

It looks like all of the SK product line is gone like the wind from Lowe’s!

 

[Andres26tnt]

2024 - August Update:

It looks like all of the SK product line is gone like the wind from Lowe’s!

it was only a test run, the main retailer is Amazon.

 

[CGarage]

it was only a test run, the main retailer is Amazon.

I don’t think so.

SK and Lowe’s setup a joint website together for marketing purposes.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I don’t think so.

SK and Lowe’s setup a joint website together for marketing purposes.

I should clarify, that specific product line sold at Lowes physical location was a test run. The Website is complete different as they allow third party(like amazon) vendors to sell stuff. Current SK line isn't available at the store only the website, and its not the full line. The Main retailer is Amazon/SK own website. Also SK now is also sold on the Home depot website, well the tool stack at least.