Skydrol..... Why?

[DARKSCOPE001]

Ok guys bit of a random topic today. but today at work I serviced a hydraulic reservoir. (#2 reservoir on an EMB-175 to be exact) well I guess, and as far as I know skydrol is a sensitizer (meaning each time your are exposed it is wore and worse)

Well today just with using quick disconnect fittings and just a few pumps the tiny bit of skydrol I got on myself my arms were itching and burning. My face felt really hot,

and ive had this discussion many times with people at work. Why skydrol?
anyone have any good ideas? anyone have any good aviation stories (especially involving this horrible stuff)

Thanks
Sean Scott

 

[Hootbro]

IIRC, the main purpose of Skydrol was it's fire resistance.

Worked DC-10/MD-11's for many years and it never got any better dealing with the stuff. I always thought if the Devil had blood, it was Skydrol.

Only thing that made it any better if you got it in your eyes was cows milk. Always had that handy.

One last bit of advice, make sure your hands are well washed before touching your junk in the bathroom. Also helps to have a fresh set of clothes to change into. Synthetic fiber clothes will also react and melt to this stuff along with any plastic tools.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

IIRC, the main purpose of Skydrol was it's fire resistance.

Worked DC-10/MD-11's for many years and it never got any better dealing with the stuff. I always thought if the Devil had blood, it was Skydrol.

Only thing that made it any better if you got it in your eyes was cows milk. Always had that handy.

One last bit of advice, make sure your hands are well washed before touching your junk in the bathroom. Also helps to have a fresh set of clothes to change into. Synthetic fiber clothes will also react and melt to this stuff along with any plastic tools.

Aye sir! when I was in A&P school they told us about skydrol and how it hurt so bad that you had to use milk, or caster oil to take the sting, I never thought I would have something that hurt so bad that I would want to rub caster oil in my eyes.....

WRONG! I was taking appart a main hydralic suction line for an EDP and it got stuck and i tugged a little. finnally freed up and flicked me with a spray of skydrol. PHEW didnt get in my eyes...... no wait.... fak! couldnt wash my hands fast enough and rub that stuff in.


I also work with a guy who was a DC-10 mechanic. He tells me storys of replacing the bogey trim reservoir and how much it sucked.

 

[Steinmetz]

IIRC, the main purpose of Skydrol was it's fire resistance.

Worked DC-10/MD-11's for many years and it never got any better dealing with the stuff. I always thought if the Devil had blood, it was Skydrol.

Only thing that made it any better if you got it in your eyes was cows milk. Always had that handy.

One last bit of advice, make sure your hands are well washed before touching your junk in the bathroom. Also helps to have a fresh set of clothes to change into. Synthetic fiber clothes will also react and melt to this stuff along with any plastic tools.

Correct. It was intended to reduce the fire hazard associated with mineral oils. It's nasty stuff. Commonly-available emollients such as aloe creams may provide relief after skin exposure. When I was a senior engineer with the Boeing Co. I always steered well clear of the stuff.

 

[Zeke]

You really need some chemical gloves and a full face mask. Cancer doesn't show up for 40 years.

 

[Chamkila]

watch out for your watches, no matter what type of face, glass or plastic it will eat thru it like its nothing.

 

[Hootbro]

..................


I also work with a guy who was a DC-10 mechanic. He tells me storys of replacing the bogey trim reservoir and how much it sucked.

Yeah, everything came together in the wheel wells on DC-10's for hydraulics. Sucked extra hard climbing up to the #2 reservoir by that tail engine.

You can only describe so much to someone who has not experienced it. Experiencing exposure though gives a whole new insight. It is like a burn that will not go away and even after flushing with milk or castor oil, it still burned for hours on the skin and you have the instinct to rub it but that only makes it worse. Then your skin turns a bright almost 3rd degree burn red.

Getting a few drops on ones person you can "cowboy up" and get through the work day but if you get major body or limb coverage, you are done for the day and might as well go home. I have know cases of guys calling their wives and telling them to buy the store out of milk and fill the bathtub up for them when they get home to soak in.

 

[Warrenator]

Skydrol is also lighter than conventional fluids, on a big plane there might be 100 gallons of hydraulic fluid so the weight savings were considered substantial.

The old mil-h5606 fluid (red stuff) is fairly innocuous and non-toxic, but flammable, the later developments of the red fluid mil-h-83282 (i believe that was the stuff, obsolete now. This stuff was used in the 60's) were fireproof but incredibly toxic. The scary stories they toldus in a&p school involved inhaling a mist of the fluid, being dead within a day, or getting some under the skin at the fingernail and having to amputate the finger, then the hand, then the arm, then dying as the toxic hydraulic fluid worked its way into the body. Needless to say "don't get any on you.". Skydrol was introduced in the civil airliner world as being way way safer. Still, "don't get any on you." yikes.

Funny story, i was replacing a hydrostatic drive in a skid-steer, was supposed to put in 2.5 gallons of Mil-h-5606 hydraulic fuid, or, since it was cheaper and it was the weekend, dextron2 from walmart is considered an acceptable substitute. According to the factory.

 

[Buckgnarly]

You guys are speaking Chinese or something....looked up what the hell the stuff you are talking about, nice stuff! Made me think of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=A6XUVjK9W4o

 

[bluebolt]

Makes me glad all the planes I worked on in the Air Force used 5606!

 

[Jagmandave]

My brother has been an A&P all his life and has told me many war stories about this stuff......scary!

 

[ollie76]

I had a Skydrol incident a while back......pretty rough.

I can't remember what I was working on but there was a bit of Skydrol that had leaked on to a connector in the MLG wheel well. I grabbed a can of LPS No-Flash (it's a contact cleaner but it's great for cleaning off hydraulic fluid) and sprayed it at the connector. I must have hit a little pocket of Skydrol just right with the stream and it shot straight back into my eye (yeah, I had no safety glasses on).

Contact cleaner and Skydrol in the eye.....I was temporarily blinded and it burned like crazy. My buddy walked my blind *** over to my toolbox where I have a bottle of castor oil. Good times.

Weird thing about Skydrol and me though......it doesn't make my skin react. I've had loads of it on my hands and have never had much of a problem

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

yea I avoid it like the plauge. if i even get a tiny bit on my hands my hands itch and burn. and if im around a large ammount of it my left eye waters.

My skydrol story: The company I work for mostly opperates an Emberaer fleet. I work on 170 and 175, Well for a while we had some 190's Same tube just longer, Bigger wings bigger engines and bigger gear.

Well the 170/190 series of jets has a problem with cracking out of wing ribs. The 190 cracks out at rib 5 right where the MLG is and where the retract actuator passes though.

So there was an SB to put this big steel doubler on the rib to keep it from cracking out and cold work the holes. so to do this MLG has to come out and all hydralic lines that pass though that section have to come out (just about everything hydralic in the wing comes out) and your sticking your head up in bays no bigger than a shoe box and working with the stuff.

So by the end of the day you have marinated in the stuff for 12 hours or more. Miserable makes it feel hot I think. I wish they could find another solution. Thank god landing gear struts arent filled with the ****.

 

[gagreen]

The skydrol video monsanto put out showing how "safe" it is, from the way way back is ridiculous... Lol we watched it in A&P school, showed a fella getting skydrol on his contacts quick wash in water and he put them right back in his eyes.... I wouldn't have done that with 5606 let alone skydrol.

And yes subsequent exposure to it makes it worse.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Didn't you guys have OSHA or workplace safety anything? When I was working at a paper mill, they'd make you suit up for ANYTHING with even a remote chance of being dangerous...Safety glasses on your face at all times and ear plugs in the ears or you got sent home, Zero tolerance, no warnings.

 

[crewchief]

When I worked Transient Alert at hickam afb, hawaii we frequently had to service KC-10's. Plenty of dudes got skin burns but there was this one 70 year old man who worked with us and he could bathe in it and never burn. He was a super human.

 

[Hootbro]

Didn't you guys have OSHA or workplace safety anything? When I was working at a paper mill, they'd make you suit up for ANYTHING with even a remote chance of being dangerous...Safety glasses on your face at all times and ear plugs in the ears or you got sent home, Zero tolerance, no warnings.

I will let you in on a little secret that you can think about the next time you are on a plane, all aircraft leak hydraulic fluid somewhere and some how. There is an allowable limit and is one of the things that is serviced and checked daily on all aircraft.

That being said, being around them as a maintainer, you will come across hydraulic fluid in a passive fashion and not know it until after you put your hands down on something many times. Big leaks you are obviously going to fix but there is many components that have residual static leaks while sitting on the ground not under pressure but once under pressure, there is no leaks.

Guys that work around Skydrol know the major problem areas to avoid but inevitably you have get dirty with the stuff and changing out major components like a reservoir, pump or a hydraulic actuator, you resign yourself to being in a world of hurt dealing with the stuff. PPE can only take you so far and if you are working a quick turn around for paying passengers, it is not high on the priority list.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Makes me glad all the planes I worked on in the Air Force used 5606!

Which is why the C-141 and C-5 were converted to Mil-H-23282 is because of a semi-famous fire incident in a C-141.

I've worked with Skydrol® for the past 25 years as an airline hydraulic mechanic. Actually never bothered by it unless I got it on the more tender part of my skin such as my upper arms.

Castor oil works well to take the sting out if you get it in your eyes (also works good to take the sting out of skin) but you must first wash the eyes out throughly for 15 or more minutes with running water before you use it. Otherwise it will drive the skydrol further in behind the eyelid.

Skydrol® is a registered trademark of the Solutia, a subsidiary of Eastman Chemical Company. Skydrol® was originally developed by Monsanto Chemical Company, but now is owned and manufactured by Solutia.

There are other manufacturers of compatible fluids, such as ExxonMobil HiJet V® which was originally know as Chevron HiJet and has been thru the II, III, IV and now the V versions. The earlier versions burned your skin much worse than the Skydrol® did or does.

A third manufacturer used to be Stauffer Chemicals version of Skydrol®. Stauffer has been bought split sold whatever, and a company named ICL Industrial Products still manufactures a Fire resistant phosphate ester type fluid for some non aviation uses, known as Fyrquel® is also manufactured to Mil Specs (for what uses I do not know), and that I know of, it is not used in aircraft.

Skydrol® and HyJet® are the two biggies and the Solutia product is about 50% higher cost than the HyJet®, so many companies have switched to the HyJet® (including the company I work for).

Where I'm going with this is that "Fire resistant phosphate ester type fluid" is the Generic term for this fluid, and the other names are specific product trade names.

Charles

 

[mcmlvif100]

Used to work with Skydrol when I was responsible for the power transfer units (PTUs) on MD80, A319/320 and Cessna Citation X. Nasty stuff. Once in a while we'd have a line or connection develop a leak while under pressure (3000 psig) and it would fill the separate room where the final test bench was located with a Skydrol fog. At that point, we'd just shut everything down and let it sit until the fog disipated. Would peel the paint right off of the test equipment.

 

[Daves69]

Skydrol= Blood of Satan

Stuff turns Channellock handles green.

 

[bmxr4life87]

Leave it to monsanto to create something so evil

 

[MikeF2316]

Very interesting, I've never heard of this before. Nice how information about things like this are kept as quiet as possible. I never want to get close to this stuff.
Amazing, the things I learn here.

 

[Hootbro]

Very interesting, I've never heard of this before. Nice how information about things like this are kept as quiet as possible. I never want to get close to this stuff.
Amazing, the things I learn here.

There is not a conspiracy on it being kept quite. It is a niche product used in one industry. Only those those work in that circle have a tacit knowledge of it.

Aviation is chock full of chemicals that the average Joe Public is not aware of or really cares.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

There is not a conspiracy on it being kept quite. It is a niche product used in one industry. Only those those work in that circle have a tacit knowledge of it.

Aviation is chock full of chemicals that the average Joe Public is not aware of or really cares.

Not limited to aviation...If you saw the chemicals used in paper mills...couple gallons of skydrol is nothing when they are unloading life ending chemicals by the rail car. You wouldn't want to ever put a piece of paper in your mouth again...nor want to see any food you want to eat touching it.
I was there when they ran a trial on the "magic" paper Crayola uses with those special markers.... You wouldn't have thought it was meant to be a children's product.

But hey, the public wants a piece of paper which is whiter then white...you ever see a bleach white tree? Recycled paper isn't any better, just as much if not MORE chemicals in the production of recycled content paper.

Even in that environment though I never felt like I wasn't safe on the job, but safety was a zero tolerance thing and they took it VERY seriously. Gave you all the PPE you could shake a stick at.

There's no conspiracy, its as Hootbro said...people just don't want to know what REALLY happens to make whatever they want...you don't want to see what's in a hot dog do you?

 

[dleonard1122]

Had no idea what you guy's were talking about. A quick googling and I found this pretty funny straight from http://www.skydrol.com/pages/faqs.asp

Q: What chemicals in Skydrol fluids cause irritation?
A: The phosphate ester base stock is the cause of irritation. Phosphate esters are good solvents, and can dry the skin. They contain mild organic acids that give a slight burning sensation on sensitive skin areas, and in the eyes they are quite painful. In all cases of exposure, however, as soon as the phosphate ester is removed, by washing, the pain subsides. Skydrol fluids are not known to cause allergic skin rashes, although repeated or prolonged exposure may dry the skin. If left unattended, this could result in complications such as dermatitis or even secondary infection from bacteria.

 

[MikeF2316]

Had no idea what you guy's were talking about. A quick googling and I found this pretty funny straight from http://www.skydrol.com/pages/faqs.asp

Q: What chemicals in Skydrol fluids cause irritation?
A: The phosphate ester base stock is the cause of irritation. Phosphate esters are good solvents, and can dry the skin. They contain mild organic acids that give a slight burning sensation on sensitive skin areas, and in the eyes they are quite painful. In all cases of exposure, however, as soon as the phosphate ester is removed, by washing, the pain subsides. Skydrol fluids are not known to cause allergic skin rashes, although repeated or prolonged exposure may dry the skin. If left unattended, this could result in complications such as dermatitis or even secondary infection from bacteria.

That doesn't sound as bad as what's on Wikipedia:

"Skydrol fluids are irritating to human tissue. Gloves and goggles are recommended safety equipment when servicing Skydrol systems. If the fluid gets on the skin it creates an itchy, red rash with a burning sensation which feels similar to a sunburn. The effects subside within a few hours and castor oil can be applied to the affected area to neutralize the burning. Animal studies have shown that repeated exposure to tributylphosphate, one of the phosphate esters used in Skydrol fluids, may cause urinary bladder damage."

All I know is that when I'm sitting on a 737 looking out the window at the hydraulic cylinder pushing that flap down, I'm going to be thinking something different than what I've been thinking of that system up to now. And looking for the slightest hint of oily dirt...

 

[t100]

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

I dont think ive ever seen skydrol so purple. I mean fresh out of an unopened can yes. But it kinda turns a yellowy color. And I think it stinks! I hate the smell of it.

Has anyone else noticed that when your working near it it makes it feel hotter? When I was doing that SB I stated earlier you spent all day on a maintenance stand that had a thin coating of the **** all over it. it made it feel hot and humid. Just miserable really.

But yes Ive read the skydrol website. All of that is laughable, It does not wash off of skin with water easily and washing out your eyes with water will do nothing but spread it further.

Terrible stuff, The gloves we use dont stand up to it very well. But they are cheep. I havent looked into it very much but alot of the ex military guys I work with speed highly of 5606. Ill have to look into the flash points and stuff but i didnt think it was that much different.

I doubt that there will be any drastic changes any time soon but its a terrible chemical and im glad I work on small passenger jets that have a relatively small and simple hydraulic system.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

see if you can use a conventional hydrolic fluid it is much safer. skydrol is used primarially in aircraft as a few knowledgeable people here explained. it is used in palnes for weight reduction and also it will not burn easily, (everything burns but skydrol is better than conventional fluids.
if you cannot replace with hydrolic fluid sorry be careful.
on floors a good quality aliphatic urethane tops coat is resistant to skydrol.
so i would assume iof you can find a good urethane lab coat you can save future burns on hands skin, and better wear goggles. tough one

Its not really my call what we use. not my fleet of aircraft. and I wish i could wear a labcoat but its hot in the hangar. 90+ degrees and right now its about 86% humidity.

I do how however have a set of prescription safety glasses that work pretty good.

 

[sqaurelizard]

its generally not the direct contact that gets you occasionally you will get a direct splash that gets you but generally is indirect. you get it on your body in your hair, followed by a shower and it running into your eyes and burning like hell. The best cure by a long shot is milk the relief when you pour it on your eyes is amazing

 

[ZRX61]

maintainer

I ******** hate that term.

 

[Hootbro]

I ******** hate that term.

Oh well, your cross to bear I guess.

I work engineering now supporting military aviation and that is the common lexicon in my work.

 

[noslocars]

I will take skydrol any day over J-84AL the cleaner we use for engine parts. Talk about burning skin and eyes. That is what I think the devil has running through his veins.

 

[DARKSCOPE001]

its generally not the direct contact that gets you occasionally you will get a direct splash that gets you but generally is indirect. you get it on your body in your hair, followed by a shower and it running into your eyes and burning like hell. The best cure by a long shot is milk the relief when you pour it on your eyes is amazing

I was told not to put milk in your eyes because if you dont get it all out the enzymes in it can cause infection.