Slab foudation cracking and coming up! PICS

[chopperman1]

I need to find out what the heck is going on in this house that I am thinking about buying. There is a 4x4 section of the concrete slab that has a crack and is sloping up like a little hill in the floor of the kitchen. I have attached pictures. I was thinking it could be the tree outside but that seems kind of to far from the house to crack it. Does anyone know what else could be the problem, can this be a diy where I cut out the raised part and pour new concrete and rebar? I attached pics

 

[SMKS]

If you decide to move forward with this house, I would strongly recommend you have a foundation expert take a look.

 

[ratdoggy]

Honestly that looks like a BIG freaking problem. Foundation stuff is always fixed with a lot of money. The house would have to be cheap and see an engineer.

 

[ratdoggy]

Maybe if that was a big maple or other surface root tree.

 

[chopperman1]

The house is a single story ranch with a cement slab that I assume is 8 inches, Cant just cut it out and pack the dirt then recement it huh? Im thinking maybe water got underneath it but cant see how taht happened because its all right on the dirt.

 

[Jay_mc1]

Where are you located? Freeze and thaw in the northern parts of the U.S. can cause problems. I bought a house 2 years ago and the detached garage was a slab pour, and the center has heaved up because of the freeze and thaw.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

Could be lots of things none of them good. From the pic that tree doesn't look that big. So if that is the cause I would question how that foundation and slab were poured.

Unless the house is going for a screaming deal and/or the floor being repaired is a condition of the sale I would walk away.

 

[yucholian]

I like your shoes

 

[Shadowdog500]

I would have an expert look at it.

I would normally look for something else, but when I bought my current house I seriously considered a house that needed foundation work because it was waterfront and the damage put the house in my price range.

Chris

 

[chopperman1]

The house is located in northern Alabama. I just dont understand what can cause a slab of concrete to heave like that.

 

[R-132 Fan]

Possibly built over a zombie graveyard?





Could the house be sinking and the hump coming up be a boulder under the house? If they didn't want to remove a boulder or a rock ledge, the foundation sinking could lead to something like that. What does the outside edges of the foundation look like? Is there a flow of drainage water going around the house from a higher area that could keep the soil damp and unstable so the foundation has sunk?

 

[Falcon67]

Are you sure it's just that part of the floor? Any remodels in the last 10~20 years that would hide other evidence of the house moving around? Yes - that gets done, just came from a house where someone spent a ton of money adding on to a house but didn't bother to spend $2500 to level it before they started. In 1975 or so. Look at the whole package.

 

[bobscogin]

The house is located in northern Alabama. I just dont understand what can cause a slab of concrete to heave like that.

Subgrade material placed over a stump that wasn't removed, slab settled, stump didn't? I've seen it in this area after a flood caused a house slab to settle.

Bob

 

[ford33]

This problem is an opportunity. Most buyers will look at this and run away. If the rest of the house looks good, stay with this and find an engineer or knowledgeable contractor to look at the floor and give you a likely reason for it occuring and an estimate to fix it. Then double the estimate and subtract it from the asking price along with other deductions and submit an offer.

My friend looks for houses with issues in foundations and basements and does very well buying low and fixing them and selling them at a nice profit. He has specific knowledge about common problems and uses this knowledge to his benefit.

Most people look at this and say, no way am I dealing with this problem. Investigate and determine how to fix it and you can make a great deal on this troubled house. This may be a simple fixable problem.

 

[pst496]

Yes ford33, but your friend sounds like a foundation expert. If he is looking for advise, i would bet our friend is not an expert at this. What are you looking to get your self into? A fixerupper, get a professional in there and tell you what the issue is. You looking for something more move in ready, my advise, run away, let someone who wants to throw money at it fix it.

My 2 cents sir
Paul

 

[pop pop]

I lived in N. Ala for 12 years and this should not happen there. That big ole pine is not likely a problem. Only way to find out is uncover it. Figure what it should cost and X4 and deduct it from a low offer or leave it alone. My best guess is the wall weight is settling and causing the cracked concrete to tilt. But from pictures, wild guess. And I am and engineer. Is there any dampness? Water could cause it to heave, but would leave a clear trace.

 

[SMKS]

I'm in the process of buying a house, and in my area many of the house foundations have moved or the walls have bowed and have been stabilized with I-beams. It has to do with the soil makeup in my area. The soil heaves a lot here, from what I've been told. Where I grew up in Iowa, I never remember seeing a house with a stabilized foundation.

The house we are considering has bowed basement walls that have all been stabilized with I-beams. I was worried about it, but I had an engineer and a foundation repair expert look at it and they both gave it a clean bill of health.

 

[holdover]

are all the floors in the other rooms level? Is there any sign that the foundation is sinking. Is there any sign that water is running under the house? This might be an opportunity to buy cheap , or the start of a big headache. If there are no signs pointing as to why this happened, my guess a engineer will say dig and find out.. you might be able to talk with the seller and work out a solution.

 

[buening]

I'm with holdover, look at the rest of the house. If you don't see any other visuals of settlement (cracked wall joints or at corners of doors), then it may be an isolated incident. Can you tell if the crack at that hump goes across the entire slab? Are you even sure it is a concrete slab and not grout over a wood subfloor? I've seen this happen with grout over a wood subfloor before, which is why I'm asking.

If it is concrete you could definitely cut the bad out and put new in, as long as the issue that you discover below is manageable. Its a risk you must be willing to take.

 

[wedge40]

In true garage journal lingo. "That'll buff right out".
I didn't think Alabama would have frost heave? The only other thing I could think of is poor foundation prep. You've been given some good advice, get it looked at and make an offer or run like crazy. If you do purchase it would be interesting to find out what the real cause was/is.

Wedge

 

[gudmundur]

gett a hole saw for concrete drill throug the midle of the high point and gett a smal camera down , so you can see if there is a bolder under the house or what the heck is going on

 

[GarageEnvy]

I served as an expert witness in a similar lawsuit against the builder in my area. The problem was along only one street in the subdivision. It was built over an old canal which was not filled and compacted properly. You could look down the fence line and all the fences had dips in them. The people with pools on the street reported cracking and leaks. There were many fractures throughout the house but not all of them raised up.

So
1) Try and find out if there was a canal or prior use that required substantial fill/compation or prep
2) Ask around with neighbors. Don't rely on Realtor information, do it yourself.
3) Don't assume that just because you only see this one spot, that's the extent of the damage.
4) Keep in mind that you are probably going to have a major problem getting financing for this. It's a material fact that will have to be disclosed in the TDS and any competent appraiser would note it in the report.

Just as an FYI, when the same homes in the neighborhood were selling for $315,000 to $380,000. The homes along this one street were selling for $160,000 to $180,000. Most were bought by contractors. The one bid I saw for repair was $75,000.

 

[richtersrodz]

How big is the tree branched out? I've heard, if you look at the limbs, the roots will extend farther than the limb span of the tree. To me, it looks like you may have had a leak in the kitchen, and the tree found it, and is living off of the moisture. That's just my guess.

On a side note. In my father's house, they had a hot water line break under the slab, and it flooded the whole house. They came in, ripped up the carpet, jack hammered out the concrete, fixed the leak, back filled with dirt, then poured concrete back over the hole. So it can be fixed.

In my new house, the whole house is plumbed with plastic tubing, and none of it is run inside the slab. It is all run in the walls, down from the attic. Makes the water and ice in the freezer taste horrible though.

 

[Zeke]

House on a slab in AL? It's not 8", I can tell you that. Tennis courts are 8", that's why they don't crack. I'm not an expert, but I am a contractor. And I've lived and worked in AL. From that experience, I will speculate the slab is less than 3" in that spot.

AL is where I learned the term "jackleg." And there were plenty.

 

[BWS]

"It'll buff out"....good one.

In foundation work we bid in $1k "clicks".....and even thats cuttin it close.

As others have said you need not focus so much on the "spot"....but look at the "whole".We're still using my dad's ancient K&E transit,and it serves us well.But,there are some "gadget" leveling devices on the mkt now.Mainly aimed at the homeboy mkt....they would however give some quick reference numbers.Which will help with tracking down where the true problem is?

And it isn't just for this house.I'd be real tempted to shoot some quicky numbers on any prospective purchase.

 

[wssix99]

The house is located in northern Alabama. I just dont understand what can cause a slab of concrete to heave like that.

Are you in any of the blue areas?

My first thought is a broken pipe in an area with expansive clays. It looks like something under the floor is causing heaving.

BTW - It's probably not the tree. Tree roots will only come to the surface in search of water. Unless there is a water leak/source under your house, the roots should stay away and keep to places where they can get water and nourishment.

 

[chopperman1]

Ford23 thanks for those words of wisdom, I would really like to take advantage of this because I know alot of buyers have shyed away since they dont want to deal with this problem. My realtor got a hold of her inspector and said that he can do a free estimate and see what the problem is.

The foundation is fine throught the rest of the house and it is only in this one section of the slab that has done this. The house is 30 mins from the TN border so it is in that brown area on the map.

I am thinking it is maybe that there was a water break or the dirt underneath, I wouldnt think that they put pips underneath the house that is a single slab. So I dont know what to think, Im gonna wait to see what the inspector says to fix this. If it cost 2-3k to fix I think Ill be happy. Also this is a foreclosure if that matters, the area has many forclosures in the neigborhood fyi. Also the rest of the house doesnt have any sagging walls or anything.

 

[slip knot]

If the rest of the house is OK I'd bet there is a broken drainline under this area causing it to move around. We have a lot of drain issues in our area and they will go up and down depending on what the backfill was. Typically you have to go in and replace the broken pipe or you get a whole lot of issues with mold and such. Look around for any moisture issues in that area. If its been vacant a while it may be hard to tell.

Most Foreclosure wont give a disclosure because they've never occupied the house. They usually ahve an inspector come in and list any questionable issues they see.
FWIW most home inspector aren't the greatest at spotting issues with a house. Most of the ones around here sideline the inspection buisness off of a pest control buisness. All they really look for is termite damage that they can sell a exterminator contract on.

Unless this place is a screamin deal walk away and keep looking. Too many good deals right now to be buying foundation issues.

 

[fredybender]

read on Pyrite, it was common here near Montreal, its a chemical reaction with the foudation stone taht reacts with water.
Cash in on that flaw, and just do the work...
BTW, I would have the house carrot drilled and sampled by a lab for pyrite; not fun when its in the living space with a sub-floor... More reson to deal

 

[mowmud]

Depending on the age of the house and the problem being in the kitchen, there is a slim chance there may be an old well under there. Dig carefully.

 

[dadsEH]

30 posts and no one mentioned Jimmy Hoffa hasn't been found yet???

 

[wssix99]

I wouldnt think that they put pips underneath the house that is a single slab.

You definitely have water lines under the slab. For fresh water, you'll have at least one line for where your main service comes in from the street or if you have a well outside the footprint of the house. You'll also have a good bit of waste lines under the slab.

 

[pcmeiners]

My guess...
Loose fill, not compacted, high spots where soil stack is with gravel beneath the pipes or were rocks are, added to this a very poorly poured floor, (thin slab and poor grade crete) . There would be no quick fix for this, the entire slab would need to be re-done.
No matter what, the slab is a disaster, so image the quality of the over all house build...run, do not walk from this house

 

[jhelrey]

and don't trust 100% who your realtor uses. They want to sell the house and they may persuade the inspector.

 

[TMCCuda]

I don't think the pine is the culprit, they usually have a large taproot going down rather than spreading out. My feeling is that it is a combination of a bad mix of concrete, lack of re-bar, poor workmanship, and poor soils. House was probably built on substandard fill that was not compacted properly.

Contact a civil / structural engineer and a soil scientist before buying.
Price what a slab for a new house would cost and work backwards from there to figure repair cost. From the picture I am guessing the subdivision was built in the late eighties /early nineties. The site was probably an open field and they poured the slab directly on grade with no soil testing or concrete qc. County building inspection was probably in its infancy at the time.