Slab framing/siding question

[feotto]

Hi,
I just had a 26' x 26' garage slab poured and the width turned out to be 3/8" wider due to forms expanding from concrete weight. If I divide that by 1/2, that leaves me with 3/16" sill plate from edge of slab on both sides. If I have 7/16" sheathing added, that will result in the sheathing extending past the edge of the slab by 1/4" on both sides. I'm going to be doing vinyl siding for exterior with the starter strip extending some 1" or so below the sheathing. See picture below (siding not shown).

My question is....how would you handle that 1/4" of "free air" extension? Put a big bead of silicone at the top of the sheathing/slab intersection or something else?
Another option as I haven't ordered my trusses yet, is to order them 1/2" shorter than 26' (and make the two end walls 1/2" shorter as well) which would pull the sheathing in flush with the slab edge.

Maybe I'm over analyzing things and that 1/4" won't amount to a hill of beans. It's hard for me to visualize.

 

[jack stand]

If you must, get a bundle of shim shingles and you can loose that 1/4" in the 18" height of a shingles.
Do this on the sheathing just shimming the vinyl.
Typically 1/4" is ignored in the framing world. The stories I could tell about "production" builders!
A shingle, fat edge down every 16" and behind the laps of the siding will be fine.
We also used to cut up the siding boxes for shims on these production jobs. Everyone throughout the trades were bid so tightly that every there wasn't time or money for minor corrections and these builders understood that.

 

[feotto]

If you must, get a bundle of shim shingles and you can loose that 1/4" in the 18" height of a shingles.
Do this on the sheathing just shimming the vinyl.
Typically 1/4" is ignored in the framing world. The stories I could tell about "production" builders!
A shingle, fat edge down every 16" and behind the laps of the siding will be fine.
We also used to cut up the siding boxes for shims on these production jobs. Everyone throughout the trades were bid so tightly that every there wasn't time or money for minor corrections and these builders understood that.

Is this what you are proposing? Just making sure I understand. Push top of siding out and lever bottom in towards slab?

 

[bluedog225]

I may not understand. Why not just frame out the actual slab?

 

[BobnCO]

Most houses built have similar scale inaccuracies, most do not seal that gap, but I admit I like to foam them (metal actual foam gun with screw on cans). You could even buy the foam that resists pests; that’s mostly what I’m sealing for (no wood destroying pests here, just run up the mill bugs)

 

[feotto]

Most houses built have similar scale inaccuracies, most do not seal that gap, but I admit I like to foam them (metal actual foam gun with screw on cans). You could even buy the foam that resists pests; that’s mostly what I’m sealing for (no wood destroying pests here, just run up the mill bugs)

Yeah, the more I think about it it's only 1/4" and can get a can or two Great Stuff pest foam for $20.

 

[bluedog225]

Spray foam is great but most of it burns well. After watching California burn, I’m a little more careful about providing fire a path inside.

 

[PCustoms]

Perfect time to add a stem wall and get all that framing away from the ground.

 

[feotto]

Perfect time to add a stem wall and get all that framing away from the ground.

Not worried about that. The grade slopes to the right and I have over 2' above current grade right now.

 

[CraigStu]

I may not be understanding this correctly but...why won't the framing be built to match the slab?

 

[feotto]

I may not be understanding this correctly but...why won't the framing be built to match the slab?

Framing needs to be built per framing plan...26' x 26' side to side and back to front, and diagonal measurements need to be same to ensure square. Pad dimensions aren't always perfectly 26' and square which is why you need to layout your pressure treated sill plates per framing plan, not the slab.

 

[jack stand]

Is this what you are proposing? Just making sure I understand. Push top of siding out and lever bottom in towards slab?

I stopped reading after you described being 3/16 short with the plate. My fault, I interpreted it to be the opposite with the plate/sheathing just short of the edge of the slab with your slab forms bowing outward.
You don't really have a problem at all. That little hangover isn't a concern.
You usually hang the starter down 1/2" anyway and this will keep the weather off of the little bit of sheathing beyond the foundation.

 

[Dig Doug]

There are a ton of different ways to eat up that 3/8 inch

add 3/8 plywood on one side
split the difference
shim the siding
cut the slab
build structure to fit the slab

at the end of the day if your garage is within 1/4 inch you should be Happy ! Job well Done !

Lumber will expand and contract / shrink and twist, the slab will also expand and contract and there will be little gaps here and there

 

[feotto]

There are a ton of different ways to eat up that 3/8 inch

add 3/8 plywood on one side
split the difference
shim the siding
cut the slab
build structure to fit the slab

at the end of the day if your garage is within 1/4 inch you should be Happy ! Job well Done !

Lumber will expand and contract / shrink and twist, the slab will also expand and contract and there will be little gaps here and there

I hear you. I always overanalyze things.

 

[WisJim]

Has the OP ever built anything like this before? Sounds to me that you are a bit unaware of usual tolerances in frame building construction, and you are trying to get things impossibly "perfect". Also, your sketch looks like you are running your studs flat on the outside wall--according to the 1 1/2" dimension in the sketch.

 

[PCustoms]

Also, your sketch looks like you are running your studs flat on the outside wall--according to the 1 1/2" dimension in the sketch.

Wow, how did I miss this?

Thread kind of reminds me of the guy who spent 6 months squaring the frame for his garden shed....

 

[loganb]

Some general 3rd party references about sealing the slab to bottom plate to sheathing intersection..this is an important element and generally overlooked

Air Sealing Sill Plates | Building America Solution Center

Air Sealing Sill Plates | Building America Solution Center

Guide describing how to air-seal sill plates in single-family homes and multifamily buildings.

basc.pnnl.gov

www.finehomebuilding.com/2022/08/09/using-liquid-flash-at-a-wall-to-foundation-connection

Note this is a sponsored post but the same concepts apply with other fluid applied flashing system

 

[JoeMcGov]

I can't tell if OP is in California but if he is here is what carpenters frame with there. Solves any and all fitment issues on the spot.

 

[Codyboy]

Framing needs to be built per framing plan...26' x 26' side to side and back to front, and diagonal measurements need to be same to ensure square. Pad dimensions aren't always perfectly 26' and square which is why you need to layout your pressure treated sill plates per framing plan, not the slab.

Before you start, make sure to send off every tape measure you'll use on the project and have them calibrated.
Also make sure the dimensional lumber your using doesn't have a rounded edge(sometimes its about 1/8" which means a 1/4" total), and ensure square 90° edges.
When measuring the diagonals use a steel tape(no stretch) with 1/100 decimal markings. )ETA. Upon doing the math. Get a tape with 1/1000 markings)


Whether this is right or wrong I had an old framer tell me when I asked about something and it being out of plumb or square, can't remember which.
He said "sometimes, neither is right. You have to see how it looks to the eye".
OP. Do not chase splinters. It's rough framing.

 

[feotto]

Before you start, make sure to send off every tape measure you'll use on the project and have them calibrated.
Also make sure the dimensional lumber your using doesn't have a rounded edge(sometimes its about 1/8" which means a 1/4" total), and ensure square 90° edges.
When measuring the diagonals use a steel tape(no stretch) with 1/100 decimal markings. )ETA. Upon doing the math. Get a tape with 1/1000 markings)


Whether this is right or wrong I had an old framer tell me when I asked about something and it being out of plumb or square, can't remember which.
He said "sometimes, neither is right. You have to see how it looks to the eye".
OP. Do not chase splinters. It's rough framing.

LOL...my tape measures are all calibrated. Lucky I was inspecting this pour, they were 1.5" off side to side and 3" off on diagonal. That would have screwed my roof sheathing.

 

[feotto]

I can't tell if OP is in California but if he is here is what carpenters frame with there. Solves any and all fitment issues on the spot.

Ohio

 

[feotto]

Has the OP ever built anything like this before? Sounds to me that you are a bit unaware of usual tolerances in frame building construction, and you are trying to get things impossibly "perfect". Also, your sketch looks like you are running your studs flat on the outside wall--according to the 1 1/2" dimension in the sketch.

Yes, I was on a framing crew for some time. Nice to keep things tight. The picture you're referring to is the sheathing not the stud. Thanks for your interest and expert commentary.

 

[Codyboy]

LOL...my tape measures are all calibrated. Lucky I was inspecting this pour, they were 1.5" off side to side and 3" off on diagonal. That would have screwed my roof sheathing.

Inspected the pour and it is still out of whack?

 

[feotto]

Inspected the pour and it is still out of whack?

It was corrected after I reviewed initial forms were set. As I mentioned, the concrete weight pushed the kickers out a bit. Was 35 yard total for this pour. Could build a min skyscraper on it.

 

[feotto]

Trying to understand why I even posted on this site. Nothing but sarcasm for the most part. Was going to document this build but not now. Too many experts who like to puff their chest.

 

[PCustoms]

Yes, I was on a framing crew for some time. Nice to keep things tight. The picture you're referring to is the sheathing not the stud. Thanks for your interest and expert commentary.

Sure looks like your studs are turned 90° in that picture to me...

Trying to understand why I even posted on this site. Nothing but sarcasm for the most part. Was going to document this build but not now. Too many experts who like to puff their chest.

We are too.

You come here posting a very basic framing question, but then claim you've got years of experience and calibrated tape measures.

This thread screams of troll.

 

[Codyboy]

Trying to understand why I even posted on this site. Nothing but sarcasm for the most part. Was going to document this build but not now. Too many experts who like to puff their chest.

You realize you have to have a thick skin on any type of forum.
It's all fun and games and poking fun. Nothing is meant by it.
The guys are just pointing out mistakes they see and that THEY also have made in the past.
I too was **** hurt on some of my past posts.
Whatever. I share what I share.
If someone don't like it they can not click on my threads.
But if you listen yo what these guys say and read between the lines you will learn something.

I too am a perfectionist to a degree. I beat myself up when things don't come out like they should.
Holy **** batman! This diagonal measurement is off by a half a damn inch!
Well I think it will be ok on a 100 ft square.

Hell if its a 2ftx2ft piece of furniture or cabinet, big deal if its off a 1/16"

It's wood and steel and aluminum and its not being launched into space at 30k miles per hour.
Take a step back. Accept some criticism and learn.

 

[feotto]

Sure looks like your studs are turned 90° in that picture to me...



We are too.

You come here posting a very basic framing question, but then claim you've got years of experience and calibrated tape measures.

This thread screams of troll.

You seriously believe I have calibrated tape measures? The original picture I posted was drawn hastily and had wrong perspective om the stud. Troll is gone..no harm no foul.

 

[feotto]

You realize you have to have a thick skin on any type of forum.
It's all fun and games and poking fun. Nothing is meant by it.
The guys are just pointing out mistakes they see and that THEY also have made in the past.
I too was **** hurt on some of my past posts.
Whatever. I share what I share.
If someone don't like it they can not click on my threads.
But if you listen yo what these guys say and read between the lines you will learn something.

I too am a perfectionist to a degree. I beat myself up when things don't come out like they should.
Holy **** batman! This diagonal measurement is off by a half a damn inch!
Well I think it will be ok on a 100 ft square.

Hell if its a 2ftx2ft piece of furniture or cabinet, big deal if its off a 1/16"

It's wood and steel and aluminum and its not being launched into space at 30k miles per hour.
Take a step back. Accept some criticism and learn.

Thanks, nice comment and I appreciate it. I'm good to go on from here however.

 

[Codyboy]

You seriously believe I have calibrated tape measures? The original picture I posted was drawn hastily and had wrong perspective om the stud. Troll is gone..no harm no foul.

I would have just said that was a cross sectional drawing of a corner stud , whether it was in front of or behind the the other stud.
Yeah it would have been a lie but I covered up because I drew it wrong.
Dude none of that matters.

 

[Codyboy]

You seriously believe I have calibrated tape measures? The original picture I posted was drawn hastily and had wrong perspective om the stud. Troll is gone..no harm no foul.

Yes. Why wouldn't they be calibrated?
Tuning up a tape measure is covered in 101 framing and building.
The tang should slide in its rivets the thickness of the tang.

 

[jack stand]

Has the OP ever built anything like this before? Sounds to me that you are a bit unaware of usual tolerances in frame building construction, and you are trying to get things impossibly "perfect". Also, your sketch looks like you are running your studs flat on the outside wall--according to the 1 1/2" dimension in the sketch.

A phrase well used on a home building job.... "we're not building a piano here".
Now of course that's a general phrase that applies in different amounts for different tasks like intererior trim work for example.
Framing.... you're situation it applies to perfectly.

 

[feotto]

Was really just looking for a "you can try this or that or just frame it and don't worry about it) kind of feedback. Not to label me a troll etc.
I am an engineer by trade (40 years) so a little **** about things. Was hoping to have my starter strip against the foundation for a variety of reasons, just like anyone who frames a garage would like their rafter tails to line up nice and straight when viewing along length.

 

[Hank11]

I would build to fit the slab and then cover the joint between the sheathing and the slab with about a 4 inch wide layer of an appropriate sealant. Tremco Dymonic 100 lightly troweled on is good for this.