Slab poured incorrectly

[Messedupgarage]

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[FMB4]

Have the pour/slab inspected before you have any other work done.

 

[wssix99]

This is because the slab was poured with an overhang as in this picture below.

Why is there an overhang? You can't put the wall on that overhang, like is depicted in your drawing. The wall needs to go over the thickened part of the slab. (That's why its there - do deal with the loads on the roof that come down through the walls.)

If your contractor is planning on setting the walls back on the thickened part of the slab and leaving you with an exposed ledge, then that may address the ground separation issue. (I would hope it has a slope to it, though.)

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[billconner]

I must say that slab cantilever/overhang makes no sense to me and would seem like additional work. I wonder if they dug the trench too small (is this all the way around?) and that's how they solved the solved the size problem, to fit prebuilt building. I think they have to fill in that are under cantilever including pinning it to the thickened edge. You may need an architect or engineer to help get this done. Maybe your local building department will help.

 

[BillK]

Not sure what you mean by an "overhang" ??? How about a coupld of pictures. Is the slab poured like your red marks ?

 

[BillK]

Either that or remove the extra backfill so the inspector will see the mistake and fail the inspection. Then let the contractor figure out what to do. Personally I would not want any type of siding or the sill board to be much closer than 6" from the grade level.

 

[wssix99]

I think the overhang is there because the mason made the forms wrong. It was not that way in the drawings. That's all I can think of. What you say makes sense to me, and makes this an even bigger problem than I thought.

What are my options for a remedy? The slab is poured. The overhang is there. The building is on top and flush to the outer edges.

The first thing you should do is not pay the contractor a single dime more. ... for anything.

If I were in your situation, I would hire a property lawyer and a local engineer. You will need to pay more up-front here and maybe more overall. The engineer will help you make sure whatever is done is safe and structurally sound. (From what you are describing, the building right now is neither safe, nor structurally sound.) The lawyer will help you get as close as you are going to be to financially whole through whatever happens. (ie: get help and don't trust your contractor's "engineer")

Major work needs to be done and large expenses need to be incurred, if the building is already up and things are deviated from the structural plans. The contractors are going to suggest all sorts of easy fixes to get out of this, but I you are going to need local professional help (beyond what prople on the internet can advise you on) to get in a right place.

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

The first thing you should do is not pay the contractor a single dime more. ... for anything.

If I were in your situation, I would hire a property lawyer and a local engineer. You will need to pay more up-front here and maybe more overall. The engineer will help you make sure whatever is done is safe and structurally sound. (From what you are describing, the building right now is neither safe, nor structurally sound.) The lawyer will help you get as close as you are going to be to financially whole through whatever happens. (ie: get help and don't trust your contractor's "engineer")

Major work needs to be done and large expenses need to be incurred, if the building is already up and things are deviated from the structural plans. The contractors are going to suggest all sorts of easy fixes to get out of this, but I you are going to need local professional help (beyond what prople on the internet can advise you on) to get in a right place.

I have paid about 10k. I have 15k I am holding. The builder subcontracted out to the mason.

Okay. So it looks like this is going to be a massive problem then. I hope there is a way to fix the issue without tearing everything out, but maybe there isn't.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Or you could tell the contractor, in writing, that the garage is not per the approved plans and not acceptable, and he will have to have a licensed engineer provide approval in writing before you will pay any more. And add that it has to pass city inspection.

 

[wssix99]

I hope there is a way to fix the issue without tearing everything out, but maybe there isn't.

I'm sure there are creative ways to salvage things. The catch is that those fixes could cost more for your contractor to fix than it would be for them to run away.

Maybe you could bolt a stainless steel ledge (so it won't rust) under that lip to transfer the wall loads back to the foundation or maybe an extension could be poured to the thickened part of the foundation and pinned to the slab. (I'm not sure, but an engineer would need to work all of this out for the soil conditions in your local area.)

 

[billconner]

I rethinking, as it's no cost or nearly, call the building department and tell them you think the contractors work is defective and not per approved plans. This assumes there is a building permit and they will ultimately inspect. The building department should be willing to do this.

Regrettably, just the kind of delay you set out to avoid.

No explanation from either general or sub contractor? Very weird.

PS Does finished slab measure 14 x 24?

 

[ConCretin]

Wow. It's too bad you have to deal with such a careless mistake. While the 'overhang' would probably hold up a simple garage structure, I wouldn't accept the slab as constructed. Concrete issues aside, don't overlook the fact that by lowering the grade to achieve the 8" minimum clearance to the sill, you are reducing frost cover by the same amount.

The easiest thing might be to rip it all out and start over but a possible fix did occur to me. If the slab is otherwise acceptable, you could run a saw around the perimeter and remove the 'overhang'. Trench around the outside and drill and epoxy some L bars to the existing slab haunch top and bottom. Put up a one sided outer form that extends 8" above the existing slab and then build an 8" inside form to create a curb. I'd probably tie some vertical bars to the L bars that extend up into the curb and add a few horizontal bars for good measure. For budgeting and evaluation purposes, I'd think #4's @ 24" for all would suffice.

This would solve your clearance issue and the structural issue as well. Just food for thought. Good luck with resolving the issue.

 

[FMB4]

Again, find out if slab meets code. If so, proceed. If not, have it redone so that it meets code.

 

[Eric S.]

Is the overhang for brick ledge maybe?

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

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[FMB4]

Thanks. It will be inspected this week. I am pretty sure it won't meet code from my discussion with the city, so I am trying to get an idea of what to do after it fails.

We all, of course, hope you get this worked out. You might consider retaining an attorney if the contractor tries to get away with it. Gook luck, and hang in there!

 

[wssix99]

I just figured out the extent of this problem this morning. I plan to have the city inspect in two days. I figure it will fail, and then I will go to the builder and discuss how to fix the issues--with the caveat that an engineer needs to sign off on the fix.

I would still plan for a scenario where the inspector passes it. There are some bad eggs out there and sometimes they don't even bother to check everything.

You may want to plan to be there in person to show the inspector your concerns and still plan for what you would do if they don't understand what they are looking at or if the inspector turns out to be your contractor's sister's boyfriend - or something like that.

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[wssix99]

Please post back. This is a new one for me and I'm curious to see if the next events shine light to the thought process of these contractors.

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[ConCretin]

That's pretty much what I assumed had happened but honestly what I see in the pics isn't what you indicated in your earlier drawing. That edge form appears to be a 2x8, which would result in a much thicker 'overhang' and the undercut doesn't look that large either. Based on what I'm not that concerned about structural failure. Some of the workmanship and materials look a little sketchy (what did they use for wire anyway?) but that's a pretty solid mass of concrete for a garage.

 

[BillK]

I agree with LLW. If that is how the forms were when they did the pour it isnt anywhere near as bad as your drawing indicates. They certainly could have dug out the trench a little straighter at the forms to eliminate any "step" but I bet it will be ok. Was it inspected before the pour ? I know when built my detached garage there was an inspection when it was formed but before the actual pour. If it passed that inspection then it is probably fine.

 

[jives]

It seems to me that the overhang is in fact the ledge for the brick facing to rest. The wall would not sit on the ledge but directly over the mass of the footer. Nonetheless, that is not really the way a brick ledge is done. See here:

https://theconstructor.org/practical-guide/brick-ledge/28007/

 

[Messedupgarage]

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[Messedupgarage]

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[billconner]

It's sure not great craftsmanship, but I agree from what I can see it's not likely to fail structurally.

I don't know enough about site and grade but possibly some minor grading and flat work around would help the proximity of siding/sill to grade. A 12" wide poured splash block, at least 4" down slab and sloped away 1/4 to 1/2 inch. All loose dirt removed or compacted. It would fill in some of undercut. Only works - not sink - if base is really solid. And without knowing more, it could look awful. Doesn't seem like much to ask for the low quality of slab forming.

 

[wssix99]

I agree with the comments above. I would check the undercut in more places and see how it goes around the entire structure. (That workmanship isn't great and it doesn't look like it would give you the durability your drawings call for, but it isn't as concerning as your original drawing.)

I wouldn't be concerned with the area/undercut beneath the garage door - that area doesn't take any roof/wall loads. (The important walls are the sides of the garage, assuming your eaves run allong the sides.)

 

[lawfarm]

I agree with the comments above. I would check the undercut in more places and see how it goes around the entire structure. (That workmanship isn't great and it doesn't look like it would give you the durability your drawings call for, but it isn't as concerning as your original drawing.)

I wouldn't be concerned with the area/undercut beneath the garage door - that area doesn't take any roof/wall loads. (The important walls are the sides of the garage, assuming your eaves run allong the sides.)

Isn't the load of a car driving in/out a concern, or will the slab support that adequately, by itself?

 

[wssix99]

Isn't the load of a car driving in/out a concern, or will the slab support that adequately, by itself?

The car's tires (being deformable) help distribute the loads tremendously. The wall areas can experience higher loading with structure, snow, wind, and other loads. (So the field of the slab can be relatively thin compared to the wall areas.)

You can approximate the loads on the dirt below the slab (from a car) by taking the PSI of the tires and dividing it by the square of the depth. So, a vehicle (of any weight) with 40 psi tires on a 4" slab would be about 40/(4*4) = 2.5 psi. (pretty small)

In a garage, with vehicles driving slowly, there aren't many dynamic forces on the pavement. Roads have other things to contend with an bend more as cars and trucks move over them at speed. (So roadbeds have much stronger bases and thicker pavements.) By contrast the footings or thickened edges under the walls would see some dynamic/pounding loads when the wind blows. (So those areas area again thicker and stronger.)

 

[like2wheel]

I don't understand how you did not end up with 7" of concrete at the edge. Did they not pour to the top of the forms?
I do see one spot where there might be some dirt on the backside of that 2x8, but the majority of it looks like it's on top of grade.

 

[johnharris]

Was the soil in the turndowns tampered down?

 

[billconner]

Something must have happened between photos and pour?

 

[Messedupgarage]

Something must have happened between photos and pour?

I don't know. I certainly didn't do anything!

Here is a photo of shortly after the pour and photos of the excavation I did this am. It's between 4 and 5 inches of an overhang in the spots I measured.

View attachment 1515730

View attachment 1515732
View attachment 1515734
View attachment 1515735

The inspector said it won't pass if it doesn't follow the plans and to talk with the designing engineer about the altered structure. So I sent an email. I won't talk too much about all that here right now. Not the stress I needed at present either. I am just hoping that the builder sees that this is a legitimate mistake and tries to make it right. He has always been fair in the past, so let's hope that continues. I certainly am not trying to get anything for free--just what I paid for.

You all are awesome by the way! Thanks so much!

 

[65ranchero]

Just a comment/question
You had a very good question on the integrity of the slab and were unsure of it will get a passing grade from the AHJ
and yet it seems that the prefab garage is in place.
Is there still a question on the slab or am I missing something?