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Slab thickness at door thresholds?

hunttuxcat

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Nov 19, 2021
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18
I have a dumb question I'm hoping to get some advice on.

weather has dictated my schedule so far, and I am framing walls on an icf stem wall before my slab is poured.

it's set up to have an icf curb around the perimeter, cut down in the areas where doors will be (overhead, slider, man door)

so, my question is, how thick should I plan the pour to be in these threshold areas? In order to frame in the doors I figure I need to know my floor height, and I'm not sure how much room to give at the thresholds.

I.e. 2" over the cutdown area, 5-6" curb above that the walls sit on?

thanks!!

terrible drawing trying to show what I'm describing:
 

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hunttuxcat

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Nov 19, 2021
Messages
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Originally I expected 3-4" over the threshold- total of 6" slab. But the fill delivery guy was suggesting just skimmed over and keep a taller curb for the walls.
Wasn't sure if that's asking for problems if it's thin at the door openings
 

billconner

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Jul 20, 2021
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Thousand Islands NYS
Using ICFs Im guessing a conditioned building. If heating, trick is thermal break under sill. For man door, I'd assume a threshold and under that a piece of foam vertically OR dont cut outside wall of ICF.

Overhead door should have same break, but honestly not sure how. I like a recess where door lands - like a "pan" in flashing terms, so I'd try to but a galvanized steel angle at the edge of pan and foam under - untill someone presents a better detail here.
 

wssix99

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Mar 2, 2011
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Chicago, IL
Not a dumb question, at all. This is a vexing issue for ICF builders and there are no elegant/easy answers on what to do. The good thing is that you can be creative.

My comments assume your slab is a traditional floating slab that sits directly on the ground and not tied into the walls in any way...

When you pour a floating slab and then extend it over the thresholds, it defeats the purpose of having a floating slab. Many people do this anyway, but it creates a stress point as the slab moves and also introduces reentrant corners on either side of the "toungue" that extends through the threshold. Both features will cause cracking. https://www.concreteconstruction.ne...et-a-reentrant-corner-crack-ruin-your-image_o

In my house, I poured a separate threshold, the same thickness as the ICF wall and level with the floating slab indoors:
full

(My dust lips are also integral to the poured threshold.) The threshold is isolated from outside slabs by an expansion joint and isolated from the inside slab by foam insulation in-line with the surface of the ICF. This eliminates re-entrant corners, keeps the floating slab isolated from any fixed objects, (like the foundation) and also keeps the inside slab thermally isolated from the outside.

^ For finishing this on the inside, I carved out the top inch of foam in between the slab and the threshold and used a product called SlabGasket to fill the gap and give a finished interior joint. (The black line in the picture above is a regular expansion joint and the grey line to the right is the SlabGasket in the interior.)

Here's a picture of the opening before pouring the threshold. I drilled some holes in the ICF wall and used rebar to pin the threshold to the wall, just to help a little with stability.
full


For the front door, we got creative and put a railroad tie down for a threshold:
full

For this one, I added some rebar coming out of the ICF, some lag bolts in the bottom of the railtorad tie, and then joined the two together with a bed of mortar. I also have a layer of insulation between the tie and the slab here, and the built-in threshold of the door covers all that up.

The downside of all of this is the thresholds are an extra pour, in addition to the slab. It's really hard to pour them at the same time and keep straight divisions between everything. Most contractors want the concrete trucks to show up one time and be done with you. Since our entire house was ICF and we also had subsequent concrete deliveries for sidewalks and other pavement, it was easy for me to steal additional concrete off those trucks to get the thresholds done.
 
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matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
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SE Michigan
I think it can get potentially messy because your R.O. rough opening dimensions in the vertical are now set by the finished concrete surface and not by the cuts you make to fabricate the framing. You will have to be right on top of your concrete finishers if you have door opening heights already set by wood framing, I'd have them start there rather than finish there.

In my own shop I put in 3 "tongues" which are 6" thick and have rebar in them (before I started framing). I debated on that part not being truly floating but I spent a fair amount of extra time compacting the soil, leveling and compacting washed limestone base and told myself I would take my chances. Thus far it all seems to be stable, have had some heavy (7000lb) machines on the forklift and I can't tell any difference. The only cracks are some hairline versions at the end of the saw-cuts where they couldn't saw cut all the way up to the stem wall.
 

wssix99

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I think it can get potentially messy because your R.O. rough opening dimensions in the vertical are now set
It's pretty easy to make them bigger in the rough state, particularly to cut them down. A few minutes with a chipper and the inches come right off if more room is needed.
 
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