Slightly overbuilt bench

[moonpool145]

Good evening to all. After hanging around here for a long time, I realize I have been remiss about posting any of my projects. To great extent that is because I have not been able to do much, however now I hope that is coming to an end. First some background to give you an understanding of my goofed up thought process.

As with all of you, garage space is tight though at the moment its even more difficult due to many moves. We moved from WI to FL 6 years ago and it took me most of that time to get a semblance of setup. Then about 1 year ago, we purchased a house in WI with a great garage, but only spent the summer there. Now its back to FL in a temp house Waiting on the permanent one as soon as the house in WI sells (could be awhile). So I am trying to make due with the space I have and brought a portion of my tools but I need to be more creative. In addition one of my main pieces sits on a very crappy factory stand. Great opportunity fro improvement.

Subject of this improvement project - Shoptask 3 in 1 CNC mill /lathe

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As you can see its a spindly table, lots of vibration,no room to fit drawers and I just don't like it. The Shoptask is an OK unit. Not great, not terrible. I still need to take it apart and scrape the ways and tune it up, replace the toolpost with something decent. Once that's done it will serve my hobbyist needs. I would love good dedicated machines but I do not have the room for it. This lets me putter. Hey I am an old paper pusher and need something to distract me once and awhile

OK, so the build.

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I started laying out part on my Stronghand table. I love that thing. Just got it but it is very nice. A bit more than a home hobbyist needs but so what. Parts are C6 x 12 for the top rail, and 4 x 4 x 3/16 for the rest.

Obligatory weld shots

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Nothing to write home about but I think they will hold. I have not been able to weld much for a very long time but I am not entirely unhappy. Granted I showed better versions of my weld. We could certainly find some not so good. Not a welder / fabricator nor do I play one on TV.

Standing up.

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The tongue jacks are there temporarily while I move it around and work on it, and likely until I figure out something better or move to my final house (forever I hope). I have big screw levelers in each corner post. In these picts its stitting about 4" too high.

The top (in progress) is to catch coolant. There is an angled trough in the back which will have 2 separate drains (with valves so I can select). The Shoptask sits on the 4x4's. On the right side is a 34" square work surface. I will put 3" flat around the edges, leading back to the trough. Here I can work on motors and parts (mostly motorcycles) and will have a separate coolant nozzle fed by a reservoir of biodegradable parts cleaner. Wilton vise for the corner.

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Thats about where I am for now. This was my home alone weekend project. No wify to say stop, so I think I did well for starting on Saturday morning. I am going to put a small air compressor on the back as well as a hose reel (directed to the front) and maybe a few more bits. Don't know how long it will take to finish but I would like it done soon.

Thanks for looking guys. Cheers

 

[csp]

How tall are those drawer boxes?

 

[p_mori7]

Stout !

 

[moonpool145]

How tall are those drawer boxes?

28.5" tall. 33" wide

Bench height 34"

 

[HubbaBubba]

Great job!

 

[motobilt]

Nice work

Dan

 

[Paticus]

Dude i like the trailer style wheels for leveling

 

[Richard Cranium]

should be strong enough...Looks nice...Thanks for sharing

 

[MarkG]

Nice. Looks sturdy enough to handle any running shoe project! lol

 

[Kevin54]

That's a hell of a table. One thing you may want to do though is put some isolation pads between the lathe/mill and the steel table to cut down on vibration. With steel to steel, the lathe/mill will resonate through the table. They make isolation pads that are basically a waffle patterned thin rubber, glued to a thin piece of OSB. You could make your own. Even a piece of OSB would cut down on the resonance.

But super nice table though. I would have never thought of using trailer jacks for leveling and rolling wheels. You may want to drop that idea into the thread that E.Rodz has about homemade tools and ideas.

Howzz about a little info on the lathe/mill combo. What are the limitations as far as material capacity. And what have you made that's come off of it? I would think that you could make some prety sweet turnings on it. What sort of Cad/Cam package do you use with it, and if you don't mind answering, what sort of price tag on it?

 

[moonpool145]

Nice. Looks sturdy enough to handle any running shoe project! lol

Cant argue with that buuuut, I may consider branching off into dancing shoes. And my wife tells me that when we dance my feet are very heavy. I think she said they seem to weigh a ton.

 

[moonpool145]

That's a hell of a table. One thing you may want to do though is put some isolation pads between the lathe/mill and the steel table to cut down on vibration. With steel to steel, the lathe/mill will resonate through the table. They make isolation pads that are basically a waffle patterned thin rubber, glued to a thin piece of OSB. You could make your own. Even a piece of OSB would cut down on the resonance.

But super nice table though. I would have never thought of using trailer jacks for leveling and rolling wheels. You may want to drop that idea into the thread that E.Rodz has about homemade tools and ideas.

Howzz about a little info on the lathe/mill combo. What are the limitations as far as material capacity. And what have you made that's come off of it? I would think that you could make some prety sweet turnings on it. What sort of Cad/Cam package do you use with it, and if you don't mind answering, what sort of price tag on it?

Kevin

Thanks for the comments, I had not thought about isolators but that is a great idea. I want the machine to feel rock solid. Question though. OSB and rubber isolators - I think the OSB would degrade from splashing coolant, is there something else I could use? Solid rubber maybe?

The tongue jacks do work well and they are cheap. I think they were $39 each from Northern Tool and rated for 4000lbs each. The handles stick too far out and catch everything, my legs most of all. I am going to cut most of the crank off and weld a socket on each stub. That way I can use an air ratchet for adjustment and reduce the exposure.

As to the Shoptask. This is number 2 for me. The last one I had was a much older version, step pulleys and no CNC. It did work well though as with this one it takes some TLC to get it accurate. I have been without now for a few years and it was time to start again. This unit is all variable frequency drive which is quite nice. Easy to set speeds and feeds. 2HP motors, decent DRO and ball screws. This runs Mach3 software which works fine. I do most of my drawing on AutoCadd but I am pretty slow.

Check it out here: http://shopmasterusa.com/

I have heard that some guys have issues with the table being warped but I have had no such issues. Once you take it apart, get all the cosmoline and metal and paint bits out, grease and assemble it you can easily hit .0005. I was worried at first with the mill rigidity but that has not proven to be a huge issue. Light cuts though. Motors and controls are good, bearings seem fine, no issue tightening everything up. With this latest unit though it is not hugely handy in the manual mode given the feed locations. All 3 axis are fine for my needs in terms of capacity. Besides the new bench, I had previously made a shroud to catch coolant from splashing on the wall. Included some lights inside (see below). My tasks with this unit so far have been bike parts. Nothing much I can show at the moment but will get some photo's and include them here.

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Thanks for the comments

 

[Scout Driver]

Very nice build! Looks plenty stout.

Scott

 

[Kevin54]

Thanks for the comments, I had not thought about isolators but that is a great idea. I want the machine to feel rock solid. Question though. OSB and rubber isolators - I think the OSB would degrade from splashing coolant, is there something else I could use? Solid rubber maybe?

Solid rubber would work fine. It doesn't need to be thick. Maybe something like a piece of conveyor belting, or something similar. A semi truck mudflap possibly. Anything to isolate the mill/lathe from metal contact to the table.

 

[larry_g]

http://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView?...40610057&contentPath=/sales-catalogs/big-book

Kevin is referring to the pads in the above link. Lots of options and a whole science behind them. Start at the above link page and then scroll a few pages to see a bunch of options.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[moonpool145]

http://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView?...40610057&contentPath=/sales-catalogs/big-book

Kevin is referring to the pads in the above link. Lots of options and a whole science behind them. Start at the above link page and then scroll a few pages to see a bunch of options.

lg
no neat sig line

Larry

Thanks for the link. It looks like these units may work better though
http://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView?...40610057&contentPath=/sales-catalogs/big-book

 

[1/2 Cup]

Over built..... never.

Great job.

 

[Kevin54]

This is sort of what I initially was talking about. I didn't know they had them in solid neoprene like this. The ones we had at work were in fact the honeycomb neoprene with cork in between.

But like the page that Larry posted, the page shows leveling steel feet, with neoprene on the bottom, which would actually be a little better as it would allow you to level the machine on the welded up base. Getting it level, at least to itself is important, so you don't have any twist in the bed portion.

 

[MarkG]

'Question though. OSB and rubber isolators - I think the OSB would degrade from splashing coolant, is there something else I could use? Solid rubber maybe?'

How about cutting some 'pads' from an old tire tread? I bet that would be about the right firmness for the application. Just a thought-----never tried it, and not sure how you'd cut it!

 

[larry_g]

If I were to go to an adjustable foot between the machine and the table then I would suggest you step up to a machinery mount. Like I said in the first post there is a lot of science in these things. You have isolation pads, adjustable feet, machinery mounts and others. The .machinery mount is for isolation and to prevent the machine from moving and interacting with floor, or in your case the bench, and allow some degree of leveling. I would suggest you look up the Barrymount site and learn a bit about what they are.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[moonpool145]

Thanks for the comments guys. I looked at the Barry site and yep, there sure seems to be a science behind this. When I look at the bottom of the machine, the 3 bases (head, tail and middle) are the full width of the machine with 2 tapped holes for bolting up from the bottom. I cannot see a good spot to put individual leveling mounts between the machine and the table and I am not sure that the cast iron there would even hold them. I think the vibration pads would work great though and I am definitely going to do that.

This brings up yet another question though. I can set the machine directly on the pads and I will still be a mile ahead of where it was. But that does not allow me to level the bed. I was thinking I should shim between the bed and the table if there were any gaps when I set it on. One of the reasons I built this table so heavy was so that it would not twist much. When I first set the machine up, I turned both a 10" and an 20" long test piece (2" diameter) between centers so I could align the tailstock. I though that if I did the 20" one first and got the tailstock lined up, then doing it the same with a 10" test piece would show up any problems with the bed. I don't remember exactly how much but while off a bit I thought it was not so bad at the time. What troubled me was knowing that the machine was setting on a flimsy table on an uneven floor and knowing that the accuracy of that test would suffer more from that then anything else. Yes I did level it well but recognize the limits of that.

Have any of you guys leveled a lathe bed like this? Can I work a twist out of the ways with shims under the machine bases? I do not know what it will look like when I unbolt it from the existing table. Maybe straight, maybe like a piece of driftwood.

Appreciate all of the comments and relayed expertise

 

[larry_g]

It sounds like you have an understanding of the necessity to get the ways of the machine onto the same plane. Leveling is the easiest way to do this. Now your delema is 'is the machine flexible enough to find its own level?" In other words will you have to pull a corner down to achieve what you need or can you adjust a foot and have a machine flex into level. My experience is mostly with industrial machines that were flexible to settle on the mounts and then expand the mounts to bring the machine into level. At home I had a small lathe that had a twist requiring that a corner be pulled down. I would suggest that you level your bench using the points that the machine will set on. If you can't ( and I'd be surprised if you could) get it as level as you can and then add shims to the low points till you have all the machine mounting points on the same plane. Set the machine on the base and hopefully the ways will come in level. If not then you shim it into level, hoping all mounting points stay down on the frame. If so you can install vibration pads and hold down bolts. If you have to pull a mounting point down then I would forgo the vibration pads as the hold down bolt is going to transfer the vibrations to the table.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[cooljoe57]

Have you got a chance to use the CNC since you've beefed up the base? I'm curios as i have a shop task as well and am thinking of making a new stand that has much more mass as well. Curious if you've noticed a difference in chatter and vibration.

 

[moonpool145]

Cooljoe

No I have not as yet been able to use it. Still in the construction process. Last weekend I finished the major fab work and painted. This weekend I intend to transfer the lathe to the new bench and start getting everything put together. This photo shows the backside with 2 shelves for coolant tanks (1 for coolant and 1 for parts cleaner), the mount for the air hose reel and brackets to mount the small compressor. I will keep all posted on my progress. I hope it makes a big difference. One thing I can say is that the table does not deflect much. I put weights on one end for stability and a dial indicator on the floor on the opposite end. Then I removed the support under that one corner so it was cantilevered. Short of a bit of gauge wiggle as the support was extracted, there was nothing. I expected some deflection in the corner but nothing. I think that's a good sign.

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[cooljoe57]

Sounds like it should help. Are you planing on leaving it on the wheels while running or will it have some kind of feet that it will be lowered down onto?

 

[moonpool145]

Progress. Not done but progress. This weekend I got the lathe moved over to the stand, leveled and bolted down. Still not ready to make parts but getting closer. The next step is to place all of my electrical wiring (using liquid tite), get my coolant tanks and plumbing installed and the remaining bits. Then I can start stripping and tuning the machine. I was pleasantly surprise with the outcome as I did have some twist on the lathe bed which came out when I tightened up the mounting bolts and used some shim stock under one corner of the tail. I don't know if I did it correctly but here was my process:

1) Level the base left to right and then front to back using a very good machinist level.
2) Remove the covers from the bed ways
3) Install the mounting bolts loosely (6 from under the machine)
4) Using a very good laser level I placed the level across the ways just in front of the headstock and projected to a far wall (about 20 feet) and placed a piece of tape there with a fine pen mark.
5) Repeated this process at the end of the tailstock with the laser pointing at the first pen mark.
6) Shimmed front / back of the tail to bring the marks in line.

This was the only way I could think of to get close with the tools at hand and it seemed to work well.

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I have very beefy leveling legs under the corners and those are what have been adjusted for height. The wheels are fully up though they certainly helped with the leveling process. Moving the machine over was certainly an experience as I have not hoist on this garage. Lets just say that while it was completed without incident it was not something I will do again. The interesting bit was taking apart the old table. If it weighed 100 pounds I would be surprised. The table top was 1/8" plate surrounded with angle iron. This should be a big improvement.

 

[cooljoe57]

Yea i'm not all that impressed with the stock table that it comes with. Seems far to flimsy and the bottom area is a waste of space.

How did you manage to move the machine without a hoist? I had trouble moving mine with an engine hoist. I do like you table and I've been thinking about adding coolant and an enclosure to mine so i think I'll be stealing a few ideas from your build. What coolant are you planing on using? Are you making the tank and pump or are you buying it from somewhere?

 

[moonpool145]

Cooljoe

I moved it by putting the 2 tables side by side and chaining them together. Then I used a port-a-power to slide the machine. The issue is going over the lip on the old table and making the transition down to the rails on the new table. I started to cut the lip off the old table but it started to flex too much and I though better of that. In the end I blocked, pushed and blocked and pushed. It worked but I don't think I would do it again. I am using a little Giant coolant tank but have not yet picked up the actual coolant. Any suggestions?

 

[cooljoe57]

Wish i did have some suggestions. The more i look into coolant options the less i want to lol. I've been looking for something that if sits for a few weeks won't grow bacteria but i don't want it to re-act with the bearings or anything else. I'll let you know if i find something.