Small in wall safe, who has one? Recommendations?

[NewShockerGuy]

I'm getting my closet re-done now after seeing what my wife got a month or two back. While I start prepping it I'd like to install a smaller wall safe to store cash.

I looked on amazon and most seem like silly pieces of thin steel that can easily be broken into using a hammer or prying open with a screw driver.

Example of said garbage on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002TOKR6M/?tag=atomicindus08-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046THMEI/?tag=atomicindus08-20



I came across this site:
http://americansafestore.com/wall-safes.html

Seems like they are decent quality, and made in USA. But no deadbolts.


This seems a lot better because it has actual deadbolts:
http://xsafet.com/wall-safes.html

Model: WS1314K 3 locking bolts.

But are more expensive.


Not sure if that is really needed in my situation but I like that it's more secure than just a simple lock. I am not really concerned about someone trying to rip anything out of the wall.. They'd have to find out where it is and at that point I doubt they are going to be looking behind clothes or misc things for a safe. Sometimes hiding in plain site is best. Whatever one I get will be painted the wall color to blend in so it won't stick out and clothes will be in front of it again further hiding it. I'd prefer to be able to stick it between two studs, so depth is going to be the limiting factor between the dry wall which is going to be less than 4-5", I'm OK with that.

But just wondering if anyone has a smaller in wall safe that they can recommend? More likely than not it does not need to be fire proof, and will have to be able to hold cash/gold/passports..etc. Not a LOT but probably a couples stacks of cash at a minimum. Would prefer a KEY, instead of being digital or batteries with electronics.

Thanks
-Nigel

 

[maxpower_hd]

I've been thinking about something similar that could store some emergency cash and maybe double as a gun safe. The one thing I found is they come in two depths. One for 2x4 framing and one for 2x6. I am looking at the 2x6 myself. They had one at my local hardware store that looks like your bottom photo but it was a little pricey I thought at the time. Now I can't even find one except on line and I'm leery it won't look like the photo. I remember seeing one with an electronic combo as well as a key. I'm always afraid of losing keys.

 

[Cyberbear]

Many decades ago I found a vintage unit that was about 6" x 8" x 12" deep and would fit easily into the wall next to my fireplace, thus providing the extra depth needed. The face was made of 1/4" steel and key locked and had a sheet metal body. Since it was inside a plaster wall, theft access would be difficult involving destruction of the wall. I hid it behind a picture and it worked well for stashing small items. Commercially available wall boxes can be easily modified if more depth or strength is needed.

 

[buddyboy]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

 

[03fan]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

It's sad, but true. A robber doesn't care about deadbolts as long as there's an easy window to break and climb through.

 

[willbrown82]

I have this unit from harbor freight. I got it mostly to keep my guns locked away from the kids and take advantage of unused space on an interior wall. http://www.harborfreight.com/922-cubic-inch-digital-wall-safe-97081.html

 

[BgBmBoo]

I don't have one, but I like the idea of one for storing random things for short periods of time. Better than the sock drawer.

I like the one in the bottom picture. If it were me, I would run 1/4 thick, 3" wide steel strap up and down the stud on either side to help secure the safe. At least the thief can't cut the studs and pull the safe. They would need a sawzall or grinder.

I still wouldn't trust any of them with anything really important or valuable, but for storing a bedroom handgun or a few hundred in cash, it would be handy.

 

[jkwilson]

Bad thing about a safe is that it tempts people. If somebody breaks in and finds the safe or if a service person sees it during their work, it makes them think there is something valuable there. Then they might come back or tell somebody else. Easiest way to open a safe is to point a gun at somebody you care about and get you to open it.

I prefer to rely on secrecy. Valuables in the house I don't use regularly are in a fireproof safe in a spot that isn't at all obvious but that I can get to in about 5 minutes. Our "instructions for when we are gone" folder in our safe deposit box contains the location and combo.

 

[Warrenator]

My Dad has a nice floor safe. They can be as deep as the floor joists, so roomier. Of course his is sitting inside a closet on its' side, so not exactly hidden. And he couldn't get it open, (he is pretty old and loopy) so he had a locksmith come by and open it for him. Then so he wouldn't get his coin collection stuck inside it again, he left everything stacked up neatly beside the safe. On the floor, in the closet.

I have remedied the situation by selling his coin collection for him. He had quite a bit. All gone toward caregiver wages. Oh well. You can't take it with you.

 

[NewShockerGuy]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

lol, don't worry I will.

It's sad, but true. A robber doesn't care about deadbolts as long as there's an easy window to break and climb through.

Luckily we live in a decent neighborhood and everyone likes to watch everyone else. We had some dude drive up the street and sit at someone's house, with in 5 minutes two cops arrived because the neighbor called and said the person didn't belong there nor did she recognize them...lol He said he was waiting for someone and sure enough after the cops verified that was the case but it's nice knowing that if people don't live here someone is going to notice.

I have this unit from harbor freight. I got it mostly to keep my guns locked away from the kids and take advantage of unused space on an interior wall. http://www.harborfreight.com/922-cubic-inch-digital-wall-safe-97081.html

Surprisingly I would have never even though of a HF safe, the reviews seem decent and the youtube videos on it aren't bad either, plus the cost is crazy cheap!

Bad thing about a safe is that it tempts people. If somebody breaks in and finds the safe or if a service person sees it during their work, it makes them think there is something valuable there. Then they might come back or tell somebody else. Easiest way to open a safe is to point a gun at somebody you care about and get you to open it.

I prefer to rely on secrecy. Valuables in the house I don't use regularly are in a fireproof safe in a spot that isn't at all obvious but that I can get to in about 5 minutes. Our "instructions for when we are gone" folder in our safe deposit box contains the location and combo.

Totally agree with you, that's where there are other safes that are way move visible and not bolted down to the floor. Someone will easily see that and then take it thinking there is something in it and not bother looking for other ****, there is other things that could be taken that are far easier than trying to pry open a wall safe.

-Nigel

 

[maxpower_hd]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

That's actually pretty funny stuff right there. You didn't mention my tool box or my toilet. Nor did you mention the hidden place under my stairs or behind my peg board where I plan to install said safe.

Plus I need to hide gold so when the economy crashes and cash is useless I still have something to trade for goods and services, and bullets.

 

[Gerald O]

..
Plus I need to hide gold so when the economy crashes and cash is useless I still have something to trade for goods and services, and bullets.

That's no problem... He's got a metal detector to locate the jars you buried out back.

 

[Gerald O]

I have this unit from harbor freight. I got it mostly to keep my guns locked away from the kids and take advantage of unused space on an interior wall. http://www.harborfreight.com/922-cubic-inch-digital-wall-safe-97081.html

Thin, weak door on that one. Easily pried open.
The Gardall safes appear much more substantial.

 

[Arps]

Gardall makes decent stuff. That top one is more like a locker not a safe.

 

[willf650]

I put one in a couple months ago. It's ok and weighs about 40#
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040HS3QW/?tag=atomicindus08-20




I think the face is 1/4 plate but it's only held on with tiny tacks. I still think it wouldn't be horrible to get into it. It's held in the wall with 6 lag bolts. The only way to get it out would be to cut out the wall around it. Conversely it would be securely held in place for you to break the tacks and pry the face plate off.





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[owenst7]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

Plot twist

I've placed several mediocre wall safes in the house in awkward-to-get-to locations. You spend all your time dealing with them only to find out they are full of things I am keeping away from my kids. Turns out that all the valuable stuff was in the attic in a box marked "utility receipts".

I'm not sure I'd invest the time in a safe that I could figure out how to break in to with the tools in my garage. I feel like anything ferrous would be compromised in a minute with any of the 5 grinders I have with cutoff wheels out there. I cut through 3/8" plate often enough to know it won't stop even a 4.5" grinder with a good wheel (which are all over my garage). I've thought about a rifle safe with aluminum underneath the steel though. If you tried to cut in to it with abrasives, the aluminum would gum up the wheel. Hopefully, enough to throw it off balance and shatter it in your face, resulting in an ER visit if you weren't smart enough to put a shield on. I've thought about locking up the metal fab tools, but then that's just going to make them easier to find and look more valuable. Replacement would probably exceed the cost of any of the other valuables i own. As it is, they're spread all over and look beat up at least.

I figure as much as it annoys the hell out of me, the border collie that barks at his own farts is probably the best insurance for valuables we have. That, and the neighbors' two bloodhounds that won't even let me in my own back yard without informing the entire neighborhood.

 

[Max]

I don’t believe any safe manufacture’s fire rating that was tested by some unknown small lab. They know where their money comes from and they probably don’t have a reputation to protect either. The exception to this is UL, which does have a reputation and does not care if your safe passes or fails their tests. As Zaigim notes, a small fire safe inside a larger one does add a lot more fire protection as well.

So far as grinders, plasma cutters, etc. Almost all home break ins are smash and grab. If you have a cheap safe they’re likley to try to pry it. But getting out your plasma torch, firing up the comressor, and going to town? Highly, highly unlikely. The meth heads that smash and grab are relatively common. The guys that can break into a serious safes are relatively rare and they are looking at commercial stuff. You. _may_ have some expensive stuff, but a jeweler _will_ have lots of expensive stuff. So where does the serious guy go?

UL rates safes by which tools can be used and for how long. Note that UL tests only count time a tool is on the safe, so time spent changing out a grinding disk (for example) doesn’t count. Common ratings are TL-15 (essentially not going to be pried open, can last to gringing or drilling for 15 minutes), TL-30 (much broader set of tools (anything but a torch) for 30 minutes, and TRTL (they can use a torch as well.). Maybe Bill Gates has a TRTL safe, but even for commercial solutions a TRTL safe is pretty rare. Insurance companies will insure the contents of a TL-30x6 (all 6 sides are TL-30 rated, cheaper safes just have a TL-30 door) for $500K, which is well past even the largest Sanp On tool collection.

If you look around there are videos of UL testing on the web that are pretty impressive. Imagine starting a test where the first thing you do is tack weld some bolts on the safe so you can mount your big *** drill with a diamond core bit on it.... Note that the UL guys are experts, they get 2 guys to work on a safe (e.g., one guys holds a sharpened pickaxe against it and another guy wails on the pickaxe with a sledge) and they have full drawings and specs of the safe so they can determine the weak points before they start testing.

If you look at TL-30x6 rated safes, the larger ones weigh 2 tons or more. The walls are typically 3+ inches thick concrete with steel inner and outside walls. The steeel is not especially thick as the concrete is very high PSI with nasty stuff like carbide chunks buried in it. This is way past a wall safe, but I wanted to explain what good protection is before going to wall safes.

If you’re trying to fit inside two studs you can forget about a serious fire rating. Also, the best you can hope for is maybe 1/4” steel, which will be pry resistant but can be pried open with the right tools. Your best bet here is a good safe in case it’s found, but you also need to hide it well. In my old house I had a wall safe hidden behind a painting. It was not in a bedroom, and the painting was indistingushable from any of the other paintings on the walls. You’d have to rip off most of the paintings off the wall to find it and if they’re in your house that long then there isn’t a lot you can do anyway...

Floor safes can have a more serious fire rating, they can get up to TL-15 on burglary resistance, and you can embed them in concrete as well to make them much harder to get to.

With safes, like tools, it’s all about which trade offs are important to you. If I was buying a safe, I would buy a safe from a safe manufacturer that makes real safes (i.e., TL rated safes) because they understands what works and doesn’t. The guys that don’t make rated safes are like computer salemen - they don’t even know when they are lying. Amsec is a good brand but there are others.

Max

 

[denis4x4]

When pouring the foundation for a new house, I installed a floor safe like the ones in service stations. I had mold and moisture problems that ruined some valuables. Bought a large gun safe and put it on the slab of an addition and framed around it. It'll go with the house when we sell as it won't go through the door!

 

[Augus7us]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

My good friend grew up in a ****** neighborhood and had some family that did "questionable" stuff. In the ghetto, where there are thieves and drug dealers that keep a lot of cash on hand and the cops are slow to respond to calls, what you describe is probably accurate... In decent neighborhoods where their may not be much to gain, I think most incidents of theft are smash and grabs. In and out quick, the cops may already be on the way thanks to a nosy neighbor. So to the OP I'd say go for it.

Same with gun safes, as mentioned above most can be broken into without a ton of effort. But its enough that 99% of us in decent areas shouldn't be concerned or need a giant bank vault.

The main thing you can do to protect yourself from these kinds of break ins regardless of where you live is simple. Don't talk about your ****. People don't want what they don't know about.

My .02 cents.

 

[Augus7us]

I'll add two more comments:

One is on the comment about aluminum above, that is a great way to stop a thief! I never thought of that until you mentioned it, but I have a large 4'x4'x1" plate of work hardened aluminum. I have on several occasions tried to cut it and the only thing that would effectively cut it into the strips I needed was my little 7"x12" bandsaw, I had to use it in the vertical position. Everything else I tried failed miserably, though I don't own a plasma cutter, yet...

The other thing was Max's comment above. I agree with what he's saying and if you are interested in lab tested safes and vaults, there is a great thread on here that has a few lock smith types posting a bunch of information on the various levels of gun safes and vaults. Very educational. Google should find it for you.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

IMO a wall safe is for keeping the kids away from loaded guns or for 1 extra layer to slow down a thief. Most are not going to be very thick steel as they can only be so heavy to hang on the studs.

I have this Protex safe and it's been working fine for the last 6 years. It has an external battery back plug in and a key for backup entry options should the internal batteries die. I can fit about 4 medium framed pistols in there but it's not very deep.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046THMEI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

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[blacksporty]

when i rob your house, i'll first go to your bedroom and dump all your dresser drawers, tip over your bed and look under the sinks.

next is closets, knock down the shelves then look for wall safes.

either rip the wall safes out of the wall and take with me or just rip open the door if they are cheap.

i dump all the loot in the sheet off your bed and take it with me.

i'm also knocking all the pictures and mirrors off the walls because people like to hide stuff behind them and then i'll tip over your fridge and let everything inside spill all over your floor in hopes that any cash or guns you hid in the freezer will fall out.

i heard about your house from your friend bob who was at a bonfire and was telling someone about a guy he knows that likes to keep cash in his house, i heard bob tell this guy that you lived over on maple street.

sleep tight

So true, My Dad's house was burglarized and they just pulled the safe right out of the wall and took it with them. Hit the bedroom furniture and closets and that was about it. Made off with $85K worth of jewelry, cash, guns.

 

[Jeffh40]

IMO a wall safe is for keeping the kids away from loaded guns or for 1 extra layer to slow down a thief. Most are not going to be very thick steel as they can only be so heavy to hang on the studs.

I have this Protex safe and it's been working fine for the last 6 years. It has an external battery back plug in and a key for backup entry options should the internal batteries die. I can fit about 4 medium framed pistols in there but it's not very deep.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046THMEI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

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I'm in the process of planning a new house build. I'll almost definitely have a wall safe in the closet, but I doubt I'd keep much more than the HD gun, $500 or so in emergency cash and my EDC gun. The safe is mostly to keep the kids away from the guns and cash. Yes, it does provide some protection from thieves but not much. Best advice is to document that you own it and insure it. Firearms have limited coverage in your homeowners policy. If you have more than that, you'll need a special firearms waiver.

 

[Spook001]

I’d put the money into some good internet cams. And a sign that tells folks that you are on camera. A alarm system would be good also. One thing, putting a safe into the house framing might result in a lot damage when they remove it. Guns, I’d just get a good gun safe. Then frame a closet around it. Most are too heavy for a single or even 2 guys to carry off.

 

[QwikKotaTx]

I'm in the process of planning a new house build. I'll almost definitely have a wall safe in the closet, but I doubt I'd keep much more than the HD gun, $500 or so in emergency cash and my EDC gun. The safe is mostly to keep the kids away from the guns and cash. Yes, it does provide some protection from thieves but not much. Best advice is to document that you own it and insure it. Firearms have limited coverage in your homeowners policy. If you have more than that, you'll need a special firearms waiver.

Don't worry, I have plenty of gun insurance. I use Collect Insure and it's only about $200 a year. Definitely worth the piece of mind. I have a nice 10 gauge thick Browning safe with a Ruffled Grouse hunting scene on the front for my nice guns and a cheap stack on upstairs for anything that won't fit. The Browning is around 900lbs empty but I need to bolt it down.

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[TTA89]

A home alarm and a safe are going to protect you against most burglary cases. They might run in and grab what you left in a drawer but when the alarm goes off after 45 seconds they are going to be leaving pretty quickly.

 

[Slackerzinc]

Those Gardall safes are nice