small jobs

[rust in the eye]

1. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor
2. Mechanics are not unskilled labor
3. Used engine oil is flippin’ carcinogenic
4. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor
5. Just the ability to hoist a car without squishing yourself to death is a skill
6. I’ll wager that you want a “skillful” person working on your car
7. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor

1. please define "skill".
2. It doesn't take a mechanic (thanks for not saying "tech")to change engine oil. That was the point of my post.
3. That's what gloves are for and you aren't bathing in it.
4. See #1
5. We're not talking about cars here but again not much to learn there either. Carelessness, not lack of skills is what gets people hurt.
6. I service my own, everything but body repair. My executive wife with a nice manicure can change her own oil. She'll be pleased to know that this qualifies her as a skilled mechanic.
7. I heard you the first two times.

To be fair, I get your point. Selling french fries with that cheeseburger could also be called a skill.
I don't consider anyone performing a task that can be taught in minutes to be "skillful".
Using a trained mechanic for such mundane tasks is a waste of resources. Would you hire a doctor to mow your lawn?

 

[bonneyman]

Upsell. Engine air filter. Cabin filter. Nitrogen. Etc.

Absolutely! I can't go into a Jiffy Lube or Grease Monkey place without getting hit up for extras like a charity begging for abandoned puppies. So I go to my regular mechanic and pay a little more with no pressure tactics.

 

[rd65]

1. please define "skill".
2. It doesn't take a mechanic (thanks for not saying "tech")to change engine oil. That was the point of my post.
3. That's what gloves are for and you aren't bathing in it.
4. See #1
5. We're not talking about cars here but again not much to learn there either. Carelessness, not lack of skills is what gets people hurt.
6. I service my own, everything but body repair. My executive wife with a nice manicure can change her own oil. She'll be pleased to know that this qualifies her as a skilled mechanic.
7. I heard you the first two times.

To be fair, I get your point. Selling french fries with that cheeseburger could also be called a skill.
I don't consider anyone performing a task that can be taught in minutes to be "skillful".
Using a trained mechanic for such mundane tasks is a waste of resources. Would you hire a doctor to mow your lawn?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever worked in that field?

 

[rust in the eye]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever worked in that field?

Um, yes. On and off since 1973
Sorry if I've offended all the oil change pros out there.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

well, an update

we got the assembly guy trained up to dump oil. He likes doing it, too. The problem is (and you guys warned us) is that you don't make any money, and the bigger problem is that when you push volume you get more chances for mistakes to be made. I do spot checks and have found loose filters and a couple times, underfilled. Not "out" just not quite full. He seems to think he can make more money elsewhere doing less work and he's probably right. So long.

The reason we have been considering doing this is because of some customers complaining about the cost of a basic service. So what we've done is give them a 50 point check. In other words while the oil is draining we go shake a wheel to check bushings and bearings and such. Tires look worn? Mark it down on the checklist. What I have been noticing is that the SM will call customer once the unit is finished and then explain the issues that were found. In all but one instance, they had no idea. I guess they're used to the suspension clunking and rattling, I don't know. But, regardless, it's been a way to justify the cost of us techs doing oil changes. Out of maybe 50 "oil change" customers, I'd say we've been able to identify problems or potential problems on 35 of those, and out of those theoretical 35, 34 of them agreed to repair those issues. Several of those were safety-related issues (seat belts, etc).

Appreciate all the ideas and such, gives me a lot to think on.

How that's a crazy "upsell" ratio. I wouldn't mind dumping oil at that point. I'm in the low single digits, if that.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Maybe do a bunch of changes at once. All the draining happens at the same time. All the filling at the same time etc..

 

[nadogail]

A lot of money can be made on High Margin small jobs.

 

[junkyardwarrior]

A lot of money can be made on High Margin small jobs.

and that's what a lot of shop guys prefer-small, fast moving jobs. Some shops don't do big jobs because they "lose" money. They don't really lose money, but the potential for a loss is higher on an engine overhaul vs replacing 4 tires. My friend runs a shop across town, works on the same stuff that I do but he doesn't do "big" jobs (engines, transmissions, differential repairs). Sends them to me/us. We're glad to take them. Sometimes we can warranty that stuff, he's independent and doesn't have that luxury. In our case, currently warranty pays as good sometimes better than customer-pay jobs. "Currently"-and I'd imagine that'll change at some point.

I did tractor/lawn mower repairs for 3 decades and the last 15 years or so, warranty jobs paid way better than customer-pay jobs. Automotive isn't always that way. Flat rate. Our flat rates were just the same, however if you know how to work the system a little bit you can get more out of em. Having a service manager who is "that" good helps tremendously. I was that guy for the last 15 years or so at that dealer, before it closed up and I moved on to another. Now just mechanic'n--without the headaches of service management, and it pays a lot better too. But I am always on the lookout for ways to help the business, hence why I posted this stuff here.

Original post-oil change-yes we found out that our cheap oil change guy was not all that good. He thought he was, like a lot of them do. We put him back to assembly & prep, and even then we have to spot check him. Us two techs do all the oil changes, as before. we don't want to send out any more junk work-that's not what "I", nor the dealer manager want-nor are we willing to put up with it. So we put him back at assembly, he may leave and that's fine too-between myself and the SM, we know a lot of people who've been in the industry for a long time so finding a replacement won't be all that hard.

 

[Hakeem]

I worked at a Jiffy Lube back in 2015 and from what I recall they made their money on the oil changes, mostly, simply relying on volume and throughput to be profitable. Back then it was 41.99 up to 5 qt conventional which seemed like a lot at the time. A full synthetic was like $83 if I recall correctly, and most of the European cars needed that and 2-3 quarts on top so $100+ bill at the time wasn’t uncommon. they had a $15 discount for early birds (7am-11am) so I figure that was all or mostly profit. Tire rotations were a big push at $20 as that was of course practically zero input cost. We, of course, made $8.25

 

[CGarage]

1) You need to hustle harder than the area competitors
2) Manage costs. Find the lowest cost oil distributor in your area (there are bulk petroleum dealers that sell by the barrel) and start buying that.
3) Buy oil filters in bulk and all of the consumables. Bid prices out.
4) Need to hire someone to manage a database of customers and get customer info like name, email, address, etc so you can send them reminders to bring powersport vehicle in for service, etc
5) Using your 12V guy and accessory guy to do lube work is a bad idea. He can have plenty of work if he is competent and if you can offer quality work to the customer. Most of the 12V world is full of stoners and unqualified thugs.
6) Consider developing and offering a maintenance contract for the power sports vehicle and explain it will help when they go to trade in or sell the vehicle.
7) Create warranty and service booklets that get stamped when customer brings vehicle in for service. Records like this help buyers to pay more when eventual sale occurs.
8) Have in stock the other consumables and upsell on every job. Air filters, plugs, fuel system treatment for summer and winter, etc

 

[nadogail]

A lot of jobs with a smaller profit can possibly make you more money than a few high profit jobs.

Productivity and efficiency often are combined to win.

 

[richfinn]

Think "Premium" service like the old days, too much competition in the "budget" sector and those customers tend to be a PITA which will kill any efficiency you work hard to gain.

1. They don't show up on time or at all for appointments

2. They don't answer/return calls in a timely fashion (good luck upselling)

3. They will attempt to blame you for pre-existing faults with zero connection to work performed

4. It will create an atmosphere of "pure hate" in your shop in what should be an enjoyable business

The "skill" is in convincing new customers that a premium service is better value for money in the long run (longevity is the whole point of good servicing), and that's a team thing from the guy that mops the floors, through the service dept, all the way up to the owner of the business.

There's nothing wrong with being on the expensive end of the market if you can justify your prices ethically, anybody can be cheap!!!!

Train your staff properly, "Quality, Honesty, Great Service"

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Think "Premium" service like the old days, too much competition in the "budget" sector and those customers tend to be a PITA which will kill any efficiency you work hard to gain.

1. They don't show up on time or at all for appointments

2. They don't answer/return calls in a timely fashion (good luck upselling)

3. They will attempt to blame you for pre-existing faults with zero connection to work performed

4. It will create an atmosphere of "pure hate" in your shop in what should be an enjoyable business

The "skill" is in convincing new customers that a premium service is better value for money in the long run (longevity is the whole point of good servicing), and that's a team thing from the guy that mops the floors, through the service dept, all the way up to the owner of the business.

There's nothing wrong with being on the expensive end of the market if you can justify your prices ethically, anybody can be cheap!!!!

Train your staff properly, "Quality, Honesty, Great Service"

Exactly. Why mess around pushing out 5x the oil changes when you can do one "real" job and make more money?

 

[CGarage]

Your opportunities may be limited by your location. If you provide professional service, folks will go to you from afar.

 

[dchawk81]

I work at a dealership. Powersports if it matters.

Something that occurred to me recently (I've been there 2 years, prior 30 years at another dealer) is that customers are getting billed $180 for an oil change. Granted, we use only OE parts, and parts alone are about $60 depending on the model, usually 3 quarts of engine oil and an oil filter. Plus 0.75 hr labor, which includes a check over of the unit.

We're looking for a way to reduce that cost to the customer without hurting the techs. 2 techs, both work on salary + commission. Also have one guy who can possibly do oil changes, he doesn't get paid all that much and it shows. No lift in his bay, though. He does mostly accessory installation and audio systems and that's about the extent of his knowledge.

We thought about utilizing our accessory installer as an oil change tech, and do nothing but oil changes one or two days a week, say Tues and Thurs. Then work on reducing the cost of labor and parts so that we can have a competitive edge on the competition. Most everyone in the area is similarly priced. Of course while the oil's draining out he can go shake a wheel looking for wheel bearings, axle boots, tie rods, ball joints, etc. I'm after keeping customers safe and happy over trying to make a buck.

How do the "10 min oil change" places make any money? Volume only or??

Oil change places buy oil in bulk and pump it in from storage tanks. They aren't using retail oil.

 

[dchawk81]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Have you ever worked in that field?

"Oil change" is a field now?

 

[Pinemarten]

A while ago, I was outstanding in my field................I'm in the house now.

 

[Meursault74]

"Oil change" is a field now?

sure, oil comes from an oil field, doesn't it?

 

[dchawk81]

sure, oil comes from an oil field, doesn't it?

How come I never get change back?

 

[nadogail]

Exactly. Why mess around pushing out 5x the oil changes when you can do one "real" job and make more money?

Every time you get a car on the hoist, you have an opportunity to "Sell Up".

 

[dchawk81]

Every time you get a car on the hoist, you have an opportunity to "Sell Up".

I'd prefer to reduce the number of times I put things on the lift.

If I can get $180 per oil change why would I want to reduce that to $90? I'd have to do twice the work.

 

[Firebrick43]

A while ago, I was outstanding in my field................I'm in the house now.

And there is a possibility you might be outstanding in your field some other day as well.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Every time you get a car on the hoist, you have an opportunity to "Sell Up".

"Opportunity", with extremely high liability. Lube tech double gasketed a 2020 yesterday. That could have been a engine lost.

I've never worked anywhere, or seen direct data from, a shop with any sort of oil=$ equation. You typically have real techs doing actual work and a poorly trained lube rack dumping oil and barely catching anything safety related let alone upsell work that needs done. The supervision required to properly train and set up a lube rack by regular mechanics, means said regular mechanic could just dump the oil in less time than the lubie could. Thus most shop owners don't invest at all in a productive lube rack.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I'd prefer to reduce the number of times I put things on the lift.

If I can get $180 per oil change why would I want to reduce that to $90? I'd have to do twice the work.

I made more $ for the shop finding and repairing a broken wire in a harness than every oil change the lube techs will do this WEEK.

Volume doesn't equal $$$ outside of organizations specifically designed to just slam cars through all day and not do "real" repair work.

 

[dchawk81]

I made more $ for the shop finding and repairing a broken wire in a harness than every oil change the lube techs will do this WEEK.

Volume doesn't equal $$$ outside of organizations specifically designed to just slam cars through all day and not do "real" repair work.

Yep unless you actually want to be jiffy lube, don't try to be jiffy lube. You gotta go all in to make that successful. You can't just have one bay that operates a little bit cheaper.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Yep unless you actually want to be jiffy lube, don't try to be jiffy lube. You gotta go all in to make that successful. You can't just have one bay that operates a little bit cheaper.

It's hard to do volume work without capital and organizational investment to absorb volume.

Taking a traditional shop layout and trying to push volume work through is very difficult. Some of the local dealers are using a "quick lane" built, constructed, and organized just for such volume work. I've been in a jiffy lube pit- it is very obviously designed to maximize output.

For instance, I have to walk approx 150ft one way to get any oil filter. That's not efficient. Shops set up based on availabe floor plan and available space don't easily conform to volume work. I was going over with a lube tech how I do state inspections. I'm looking for 15 second efficiency gains in the process. I find enough 15 second gains in my processes I have time to take a piss for "free" with no loss in output. It all adds up.

 

[dchawk81]

It's hard to do volume work without capital and organizational investment to absorb volume.

Taking a traditional shop layout and trying to push volume work through is very difficult. Some of the local dealers are using a "quick lane" built, constructed, and organized just for such volume work. I've been in a jiffy lube pit- it is very obviously designed to maximize output.

For instance, I have to walk approx 150ft one way to get any oil filter. That's not efficient. Shops set up based on availabe floor plan and available space don't easily conform to volume work. I was going over with a lube tech how I do state inspections. I'm looking for 15 second efficiency gains in the process. I find enough 15 second gains in my processes I have time to take a piss for "free" with no loss in output. It all adds up.

I saw some jiffy lubes with filter storage in the pit. Don't know if they're all that way but it's smart.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I saw some jiffy lubes with filter storage in the pit. Don't know if they're all that way but it's smart.

That's how this one was. The 15 or so most common filters on the right on a dispenser type shelf like drinks at a gas station. On the left was supposed to be all the tools, usually plenty missing, but a wrench and socket set.

You could skate around the floor in tennis shoes from all the oil soaked in. IMO the biggest issue was overhead space, anyone over 5'8 or so would spend the entire day hunched over.

In this scenario, the jiffy lube guy would be saving 300 linear feet of walking vs myself, on every single filter. Over ten cars his filter acquisition time alone would likely create a 3 minute advantage.

 

[CGarage]

The title of this thread alone scares me and indicates to me that the OP may be better off cutting his losses and doing something else entirely…..

 

[RAS61]

Upsell. Engine air filter. Cabin filter. Nitrogen. Etc.

One of the main reasons I change my own oil, no BS! I agree with the approach of better service to set yourself apart, they'll pay more but feel it's worth it, appeal to these people and let the cheapskates take their business elsewhere

 

[Pinemarten]

If the Powersport Dealership is a large one with lots of inventory, the oil change price can be subsidized with sales from the showroom. Give out coupons for a reduced price oil change that include a discount on gear. Sell a new helmet, jacket, or gloves while the waiting customer is browsing the showroom, and you have made money!

 

[themiller]

Give the vehicles a quick wash/spray wax. Add value and an "experience." Don't try and race to the bottom price wise. People that are spending 10-30k+ per machine at your dealer aren't hurting financially. $180 is chump change IF you do what you say you're doing an there is no reason to come back. You start rushing and oil starts leaking on their pristine storage floor because of a loose filter or something gets missed - as you've learned - that'll bite your behind.

I'm someone that pays that $180 for an oil change for my new powersports while they're under warranty. I keep all the business at the dealer until the warranty is out (and I buy the YES warranty from Yamaha because new machines are quite expensive to repair while they're still getting broken in AND I don't make time to personally maintin everything I play with in life).

All that said - if someone is bringing you their fleet (atvs, dirt bikes, snowmobiles, sxs's, boats, generators, etc...) I would make sure your best service advisor is having a 1:1 conversation with them and making them feel special. Whether that's discounts on gear, proactice trade in incentives, service incentives (hey can you bring these in next (insert your slow season here) we can get them all turned around with a discount, etc...

 

[junkyardwarrior]

If the Powersport Dealership is a large one with lots of inventory, the oil change price can be subsidized with sales from the showroom. Give out coupons for a reduced price oil change that include a discount on gear. Sell a new helmet, jacket, or gloves while the waiting customer is browsing the showroom, and you have made money!

we've started doing this, and it's working pretty well. I don't have official numbers yet but so far so good, and more importantly the customer thinks he or she is getting a good value.

And to those who are still comparing powersports to cars, you can't. You're not running a motorcycle up on the lift and changing the oil in 5 minutes' time. Some of these bikes have the drain bolt and/or filter in between the exhaust header pipes, so it's got to cool off before it can get done. Just one example of many. I personally made a fluid evacuator and some of the equipment I am able to **** all the oil out of without touching the drain....best tool ever. But it doesn't work on all of them, tube won't get to the bottom of the pan, leaves a little bit left. While it's not much I still don't like it.

Good discussions and I've learned from every post. Thanks.

 

[Chipm]

You can sell the used oil to people with clean- burn style waste oil furnaces. Especially if you have a cold winter.

You can legally only burn used oil that was generated on-site, so you can't buy or sell it for heater use unless it is tested and meets an EPA specification.

 

[dchawk81]

1. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor
2. Mechanics are not unskilled labor
3. Used engine oil is flippin’ carcinogenic
4. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor
5. Just the ability to hoist a car without squishing yourself to death is a skill
6. I’ll wager that you want a “skillful” person working on your car
7. There’s no such thing as unskilled labor

Unskilled labor is a job classification.

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1568.htm

 

[toolenthusiast]

Unskilled labor is a job classification.

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-1568.htm

I trust the US government’s opinions on socioeconomics about as much as I trust Casey Anthony’s opinions on babysitting.

 

[rust in the eye]

I trust the US government’s opinions on socioeconomics about as much as I trust Casey Anthony’s opinions on babysitting.

It's not opinion

 

[Hakeem]

e: delete

 

[junkyardwarrior]

Ok, here's another topic for discussion, kind of goes along with the smaller jobs (in a way). Powersports, although I'm sure some of it follows automotive dealership practices.

Say a guy brings in some old pile of garbage that has been sitting for 30-40-50 or however many years. It's a 20+ year old piece of, uh, equipment, but he says "make it run again". We know we can't get too many parts, thus we know ahead of time that it's gonna be a long drawn out ordeal trying to, source parts, much less fighting old broken bolts, rust, neglect (especially with powersports stuff), etc and we know it's gonna take more labor and thus more cost to get it back into basic running condition, than it generally would with a newer unit that may be in a little better condition and/or have much better parts (and to an extent) service literature availability. So as customer is filling out a R/O, how do you guys approach this?

Past dealer, we told customers that we don't work on stuff that is x number of years old, period. That ran a lot of folks off, understandably. If I were told that, I'd probably not be very happy either. Another shop I worked at, we required about 50% (+/-) of generally estimated cost up front, which is applied to the cost of the repair, and if that deposit exceeds the final tally, a refund is due to the customer. Generally speaking it was around $250 at the time. If customer is ok with prepaying $250, he is serious about fixing it and we'll go ahead with it. Most folks will balk and take it to a shop (we were/are a dealer, not just a 'repair shop'). On older motorcycles that was a big issue, because in this area if someone abandons their bike, and parts & labor are owed on it, most of the time you never got your money back on it-so it was a loss to the dealer, even if they were to sell it. I did a Royal Star 1300 once with leaking crankcases, replaced the crankcases which is a huge job, and the guy never showed up to pay for it & take it home. Never answered the phone, nothing. Sent registered letters, certified letters, everything "by the book", nothing. I had my time in it and the dealer had about $3000 into it, and that bike was worth, maybe, $1800 (it had been wrecked). Couldn't sell it without jumping through hoops to get a title, etc, so it just sat out there for a number of years, rusted away, and was still there when I left in 2020.

What is y'all's opinions on this?

 

[dchawk81]

Ok, here's another topic for discussion, kind of goes along with the smaller jobs (in a way). Powersports, although I'm sure some of it follows automotive dealership practices.

Say a guy brings in some old pile of garbage that has been sitting for 30-40-50 or however many years. It's a 20+ year old piece of, uh, equipment, but he says "make it run again". We know we can't get too many parts, thus we know ahead of time that it's gonna be a long drawn out ordeal trying to, source parts, much less fighting old broken bolts, rust, neglect (especially with powersports stuff), etc and we know it's gonna take more labor and thus more cost to get it back into basic running condition, than it generally would with a newer unit that may be in a little better condition and/or have much better parts (and to an extent) service literature availability. So as customer is filling out a R/O, how do you guys approach this?

Past dealer, we told customers that we don't work on stuff that is x number of years old, period. That ran a lot of folks off, understandably. If I were told that, I'd probably not be very happy either. Another shop I worked at, we required about 50% (+/-) of generally estimated cost up front, which is applied to the cost of the repair, and if that deposit exceeds the final tally, a refund is due to the customer. Generally speaking it was around $250 at the time. If customer is ok with prepaying $250, he is serious about fixing it and we'll go ahead with it. Most folks will balk and take it to a shop (we were/are a dealer, not just a 'repair shop'). On older motorcycles that was a big issue, because in this area if someone abandons their bike, and parts & labor are owed on it, most of the time you never got your money back on it-so it was a loss to the dealer, even if they were to sell it. I did a Royal Star 1300 once with leaking crankcases, replaced the crankcases which is a huge job, and the guy never showed up to pay for it & take it home. Never answered the phone, nothing. Sent registered letters, certified letters, everything "by the book", nothing. I had my time in it and the dealer had about $3000 into it, and that bike was worth, maybe, $1800 (it had been wrecked). Couldn't sell it without jumping through hoops to get a title, etc, so it just sat out there for a number of years, rusted away, and was still there when I left in 2020.

What is y'all's opinions on this?

Just tell them it's actual time billed, and if you have 1,000 hours in it he has to pay for all 1,000 hours. If you're charging $100/hr then he's in for a $100,000 repair bill.

People who want old essentially abandoned equipment running and operating again really need to understand that it should be a DIY thing, like these YouTubers such as Diesel Creek and Scrappy Industries.