Smart light switch wiring

[1190R]

I'm interested in changing out some old light switches with programmable smart switches
They come in two types- neutral wire or no neutral wire
My current standard switches are not wired with a neutral but each box has white wires nutted together which I assume are neutral wires
I would prefer to use the smart switches that require a neutral wire
Is it reasonable to assume that the white wires nutted together are neutral and can be connected to a new smart switch that requires a neutral wire?

 

[PoorOwner]

The newer ones do not require neutral for ease of installation, so they make the job very easy,
I am not sure why you would prefer the type with neutral wire?

The white wires nutted together pushed into the back are indeed neutral if you need to use neutral.

If you have multiple gang switches, double check carefully that things are really turned off properly as multiple circuits maybe present.

 

[memphisnate]

The newer ones do not require neutral for ease of installation, so they make the job very easy,
I am not sure why you would prefer the type with neutral wire?

The white wires nutted together pushed into the back are indeed neutral if you need to use neutral.

If you have multiple gang switches, double check carefully that things are really turned off properly as multiple circuits maybe present.

It's been a few months since I was looking at them but it seems like the majority of smart switches still require a neutral so from a cost & option standpoint, it's usually better to go with them.

 

[1190R]

Thanks PoorOwner. The reason for preferring neutral wire switch is more versatility like controlling ELV lighting

Thanks memphisnate. Agree

Still would like to know if I can use the white wire-nutted wires as the neutral

 

[memphisnate]

Yep you can use the white wires as neutral. The easiest way might be to just do a pigtail off of the wire-nutted ones, but that probably depends how many wires are in the box already.

 

[Git]

I have about 30, Z-wave type smart switches and they all required a neutral. Some of them are dimmers with little lights along the side of the switch to indicate the light level for example, or a little light in the bottom corner for a regular switch and you would definitely need a neutral for that to work

Some of the switches will even come with a white (neutral) 'jumper' wire. One end goes to the switch terminal and the other would go under the wire nut

 

[bigb56]

Most all will require the neutral connection, in fact that is the reason recent electrical code changes now require a neutral in every switch box (in most cases). One thing to be very careful of is you must be sure to use the neutral that belongs to the same circuit you are working on, using a neutral from a different circuit can cause problems in operation of certain devices as well as create a serious shock hazard for anyone working on the other circuit. Many switch boxes contain multiple circuits and the neutrals must always be kept only with their associated line conductors.

 

[Git]

Most all will require the neutral connection, in fact that is the reason recent electrical code changes now require a neutral in every switch box (in most cases). One thing to be very careful of is you must be sure to use the neutral that belongs to the same circuit you are working on, using a neutral from a different circuit can cause problems in operation of certain devices as well as create a serious shock hazard for anyone working on the other circuit. Many switch boxes contain multiple circuits and the neutrals must always be kept only with their associated line conductors.

^^^ This is a good point (I was going to post that but then I thought it may be too complicated)

I have several boxes with different circuits going through them - mostly for 3 way switches. You really need to check the voltages to be sure

 

[CJ7VFR]

I'm interested in changing out some old light switches with programmable smart switches...

Also check to see how deep the old boxes are where you want the new programmable switches to go.

A lot of boxes with single toggle switches in them are the smaller boxes that are not very deep or wide. If this is the case, you might not be able to fit the programmable switches in the same box as a regular toggle switch because some of the new programmable switches have HUGE electronics on the back of them that won't fit into older boxes.

Jim

 

[PhysicsDude]

If you want to use LED lights, you definitely want switches that require neutrals. The switches that say they don't require neutrals usually will specify that they only work incandescent bulbs, or have a minimum wattage of LEDs on the circuit to work properly (typically 25W). They're also typically more expensive.

I went with GE 14294 switches and am very happy with them. I bought 3 switches and these dimmed my LEDs the best, and they're one of the cheaper options. I wouldn't use any WiFi devices unless you have to, ZWAVE or ZIGBEE are much better protocols for smart switches.

I would absolutely tap into the neutrals that are in the box with the switch.

 

[TheGreatNate]

I'm going to piggyback on this thread if that's OK.

I'm looking at installing smart switches as part of a home renovation in a few months so I've been researching what is needed. I want to use the GE Z-wave switches since they offer a toggle style (which is the type used everywhere else in the house) and I've not found any other smart switches that aren't the "decorator" style. Additionally the reno will involve adding LED lights so that rules out the switches that can work without neutrals from my understanding.

Anyway, I do not seem to have the neutral wire in any of the light circuits I've checked. House was built in 1963 so I assume that was not common practice at the time?

I found this thread looking for info on smart switches, so I thought I would bounce this plan off some folks here as far as the best way to add a neutral. It doesn't sound like running a single wire from the switch to the light would be up to code, so I guess my best option is to run a three conductor wire to the light from the switch box? Do 3- and 4-way switches also require the neutral to each switch?

Access shouldn't be a problem for the most part, I'm replacing paneling in one room with drywall so those walls will be open and the house is a ranch with full access to the attic (I'll just have to burrow through a couple feet of insulation...) and I'm going to be relocating a few switches during the process anyway, so I'll already have to do some work up there...

 

[R7237]

I'm going to piggyback on this thread if that's OK.

Access shouldn't be a problem for the most part, I'm replacing paneling in one room with drywall so those walls will be open and the house is a ranch with full access to the attic (I'll just have to burrow through a couple feet of insulation...) and I'm going to be relocating a few switches during the process anyway, so I'll already have to do some work up there...

I am not an electrician, but I would think if the access is pretty straightforward and you are capable, I would not run a single "neutral wire", I would just run the standard 3 conductor wire from the panel. Never want to "half ***" electrical. Plus, you can always do it piecemeal as you are wiring switches. Just make sure you do complete runs end to end and not put junction boxes. That seems to me to be the "right way" to do it.

As for the GE Z wave switches,,, I really like them. If you have the older style ceiling fans, the GE Wave fan switches are the "cats Meow", letting you run the fans from 1%-100% power. I would add a hub to control it all,,, I have used a few and really like the Smartthings Hub. You can get from Amazon for $45 on occasion, just set up a price tracker and catch it on sale. Usually goes to $45 for a couple of days every few months. Those GE switches can run "locally", which is also nice for a lot of the automation stuff incase you have any issues with your Internet Connectivity. You will, however, need to have Internet access to use the hub.

 

[Falcon67]

I have been using Kasa which requires a neutral. Works good IMHO.