I installed some Diamond Kote siding for a freind, but didn't realize I was suppose to use a starter strip...what is the best way to go about securing the bottom of the first row of siding...now that the job is done....Do I just go and face nail it to the wall?
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Smart Siding
- Thread starter hobbyman
- Start date
I'm assuming this is lap siding hung horizontally so bottom course is flat against wall and is not tilted same as courses above it? Is there room to wedge a starter strip or even ripped piece of siding underneath it? Either way you should be able to top nail. I'm not familiar with that brand but they may sell screws that set below surface and have color matched (or sometimes painted) caps if you're concerned about seeing fasteners.
Yeah it is lap siding with the little spine in the back to lock pieces together...the customer is more concerned with getting it back against the wall tighter so rodents can get in. I thought about doing the same thing, maybe put a piece of lathe behind it and face nail it....I'm assuming this is lap siding hung horizontally so bottom course is flat against wall and is not tilted same as courses above it? Is there room to wedge a starter strip or even ripped piece of siding underneath it? Either way you should be able to top nail. I'm not familiar with that brand but they may sell screws that set below surface and have color matched (or sometimes painted) caps if you're concerned about seeing fasteners.
SKIPPINROCKS
Active member
I would think you could rip a piece of siding and nail it. It would be pretty narrow , maybe 3/4 inch wide to fit below the gray spine and the bottom. Just paint it with the siding paint like you did your other cuts. I used the ground contact starter boards on my garage but they are super pricy..
I installed some Diamond Kote siding for a freind,
... the customer is more concerned
So this was a paid job for a customer?
yes, paid job...I talked to a big builder in the city and he says he never uses starter, just face nails the bottom to get it secure as it always pops off the starter anyways...I know that is how they always did the LP siding as it would get painted after installation...but with diamondkote it is pre painted...I can still caulk or touch up paint the face nails...Keep in mind this is an older house and nothing is flat or smooth, like new construction would be..So this was a paid job for a customer?
I put on LP Smart Side on my home and never used a started strip. I asked about started strip and the guys at the lumber yard never heard of it. They said they sell truck loads of it to builders and nobody ever asks for starter strip. You nail the top edge, why does the bottom edge need to be nailed? I don't see rodents getting it past the bottom of the siding any easier than 100 other places.
I wouldn't worry about it.
I wouldn't worry about it.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I'd love to hear those builder's justification beyond the small amount of time it saves.I put on LP Smart Side on my home and never used a started strip. I asked about started strip and the guys at the lumber yard never heard of it. They said they sell truck loads of it to builders and nobody ever asks for starter strip. You nail the top edge, why does the bottom edge need to be nailed? I don't see rodents getting it past the bottom of the siding any easier than 100 other places.
I wouldn't worry about it.
I never saw the benefit of a starter strip.I'd love to hear those builder's justification beyond the small amount of time it saves.
When I did my siding I made starter strips out of 1X material ripped down and used it on one wall. The rest of the house I just put up the siding. The siding I used has the plastic fin on the back where you set it on the previous run of siding. That fin pushed the bottom of the siding out so it looks proper. If the siding was flat on the back I would have used a starter strip to kick the bottom of the siding out.
I was confused as I've used Smartside before and never heard saw the term 'diamond kote' before. So I searched for it. Smartside and Diamond Kote are very different. The one you're using recommends a metal starter strip to angle and lock it in place. Smartside doesn't.
I've always used a starter of some sort as it just looks wrong if the first course doesn't match the angle of those above.
Not having use that particular product, I've no idea what benefits the metal starter provides. Your call.
I've always used a starter of some sort as it just looks wrong if the first course doesn't match the angle of those above.
Not having use that particular product, I've no idea what benefits the metal starter provides. Your call.
They are not different. Diamond Kote is prefinished LP Smart Side.I was confused as I've used Smartside before and never heard saw the term 'diamond kote' before. So I searched for it. Smartside and Diamond Kote are very different. The one you're using recommends a metal starter strip to angle and lock it in place. Smartside doesn't.
https://diamondkotesiding.com/our-story/
I get that, but they are different companies as I understand it. LP provides the siding, DK provides the finish, and installation processes are different, at least the online stuff I've found is.They are not different. Diamond Kote is prefinished LP Smart Side.
https://diamondkotesiding.com/our-story/
I just did a small amount of LP and my supplier, (local lumber yard) doesn't even handle the prefinished line from DK, only the products provided directly from LP.
Yes they are, but Diamond Kote gets the siding from LP paints it and sells it.I get that, but they are different companies as I understand it. LP provides the siding, DK provides the finish, and installation processes are different, at least the online stuff I've found is.
I just did a small amount of LP and my supplier, (local lumber yard) doesn't even handle the prefinished line from DK, only the products provided directly from LP.
It is still LP Smart Side, just painted.
If you buy a brand new F150, paint it and resell it, is it no longer a Ford?
So you installed the bottom row flat against the sheathing? That's a problem. I'd be much more concerned about water infiltration and proper drainage than rodents. I don't see a reasonable solution for this issue other than wedging the bottom row out and sliding a starter strip behind it. Usually with LP you rip down a piece into 1 to 1 1/5 inch strips as starter, though I have seen people use steel vinyl siding starter strips before. The problem is fastening the starter. Maybe you could use an adhesive? But you will probably need to face nail through the bottom row into the starter. And face nailing a pre-finished product has it's own issues.
reader2580
Well-known member
I have never seen any installation instructions for Smartside that calls for face nailing the bottom row. I have Smartside done by two different contractors that is not face nailed on the bottom row.
There are enough gaps in a typical Smartside installation that a mouse could easily get through. The sheathing is where the mouse proofing should happen for the most part.
There are enough gaps in a typical Smartside installation that a mouse could easily get through. The sheathing is where the mouse proofing should happen for the most part.
reader2580
Well-known member
Diamond Kote makes some proprietary versions of Smartside. What the OP appears to be using is the Diamond Kote Rigid Stack product. A slot is cut at an angle in the siding. A plastic piece is put in the slot. The plastic piece sits on top of the previous piece of siding to maintain the spacing.I was confused as I've used Smartside before and never heard saw the term 'diamond kote' before. So I searched for it. Smartside and Diamond Kote are very different. The one you're using recommends a metal starter strip to angle and lock it in place. Smartside doesn't.
No, there is a fin in the back that is meant to sit on top of the previous run of siding. On the first run of siding it kicks it out just like there was a starter strip. Plus the siding over hangs the concrete foundation about an inch. I can stick my finger tips under it. There isn't any water getting behind it. The stater strip that is made for the product is a stamped steel perforated channel. It isn't stopping any moisture either!So you installed the bottom row flat against the sheathing? That's a problem. That's a problem. I'd be much more concerned about water infiltration and proper drainage than rodents.
Correct, a steel starter strip will not stop water, but the proper angle of the bottom piece will stop any capillary action along the back side of the siding. I've never used the pre-finished product though. So that fin set the angle? And all the starter strip is going to do is help lock the fin in at the bottom so it can't move? If a rodent did get behind the bottom row of siding around the fin that is pushing up against the sheathing, where would it go? I wouldn't worry about it. My bottom row of LP is blind nailed at the top, sits over a 1 inch ripped piece of siding as starter strip which isn't totally continuous because no one will ever see it and I've never had a piece move, nor a rodent get behind it. A mouse is just going to find a door jamb to slip through before trying to get behind the siding. But I would not face nail it.
reader2580
Well-known member
Not all pre-finished Smartside includes the plastic "fin". It is an option that Diamond Kote can provide, but Diamond Kote also sells just plain pre-finished Smartside. It appears the OP installed the "fin" version known as Rigid Stack.
Professor Fate
Well-known member
As a builder I insist that the first run has a starter strip to kick out the bottom to match every other run. Flat run than beveled runs look like ***.
Kaizen
Well-known member
I am on my 120 year old house. But i'm adding trim below it. you should rip a piece of it and push it up then face nail it. Only hairy part of it is not breaking that first piece you already put inHow many of you on here doing a remodel home use starter when hanging smart siding?? I can see using it on a perfectly new house where everything is flat and level etc...but find it difficult to use on older homes...am I crazy?
csp
Well-known member
^^This^^I ripped a the first piece to 1 1/2 in and nailed that as my starter.
LP doesn't sell or make a dedicated starter strip.