Smartside Siding Question

[Daniel Dudley]

I'm going to be siding a garage in LP Smartside siding, and all the literature suggests a 3/16'' gap at every **** joint in the siding, to prevent buckling.
Has anyone installed this siding without spacing the **** joints and only spacing the end joints? This will be installed in the Northeast, and the siding has been stored in a dry garage for 6 months.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

Ours has the gap at **** and end joints. Fill with caulk and paint. Not sure why you wouldn't want to follow directions.

 

[yeldogt]

You need the gap .... make sure about the use of caulk. Typically you don't caulk a **** joint ... it's flashed.

Hardie has no **** joint caulking .... people do it all the time .... it's not correct. Caulk is the most overused product in home building IMO .. every time you pick a tube up .. think about how it was done before they had caulk

 

[reader2580]

The **** joints are required because the product will expand and contract. The current best practice is not to use caulk at the **** joints as the expansion and contraction loosens it up. The recommendation is to use metal flashing at the **** joints. You can either use a flat piece of metal behind the joint, or an "H" shaped piece that covers the joint. LP says you must use factory primed ends at each **** joint.

I used Proline Plank Flash from xtremetrim.com when I put Smartside on my garage.

 

[Bretny]

I haven't used this stuff but I have felt a piece and by the looks of it its prety thin OSB with a hard coating. A hard coating your going to put a hole in ever nail. Its prety damn expensive compared to its counter part t111 too.

 

[reader2580]

The stuff is a lot different than normal wood siding. The product has various waxes and other stuff mixed in to keep the wood sealed. LP had a fiber version of this for a time, but they discontinued it in 2020. I have the strand version on my house and would never have used the fiber version.

One local lumberyard has a chunk of Smartside that has been in a bucket of water for years. It still looks pretty much like new.

 

[yeldogt]

I haven't used this stuff but I have felt a piece and by the looks of it its prety thin OSB with a hard coating. A hard coating your going to put a hole in ever nail. Its prety damn expensive compared to its counter part t111 too.

People seem to like it ...

I use pre-painted Hardie -- there is no perfect product.

Boral used to make a siding ..but they stopped. IMO -- the Boral flat trim is the best ... ground contact rated

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

I wrapped my 2500 sqft house with the stuff, in 2011. Everything got gaps, everything needs gaps,..

I used several caulks, Id recommend not using OSI Quad if they still make it, it failed after about 2yrs.

PL Polyurethane I used worked very well and held up well under the UV beating it took, but the stuff is hard to work with and clean up is hell.

There is likely much better product out there at real construction stores, I bought this stuff at one of the big box home stores.

Otherwise loved the product, I had used Hardie in the past, which is why I wanted to try the Smart-side. Would do it again.

 

[tstaude]

Good to know all these experiences, my shop will have LP Smartside, I may go with Board and Batten.

 

[acer66]

Buddy of mine uses some lp cut offs from my house for over 2 years now to paint small stuff outside where it lives throughout 4 seasons, cut edges exposed same as the unpainted back and it looks like day one besides some overspray.

 

[M6erfan]

We just had our chimey sheathed in LP Smartsiding, board and batton. Pay attention the the manufacturers installation instructions. Screw head depth in important as well.

 

[danfromsyr]

I have LP panels in factory prime finish out in the weather on my shed for ~20years.
starting to need a coat of paint just recently.
but the board fibers and ends are all just fine. no swelling.
I leave scraps out back in the scrap pile. other wood has turned to mud. I use LP scraps under the trailer tongue jacks in direct ground contact..

it's a nice product.

 

[reader2580]

I used several caulks, Id recommend not using OSI Quad if they still make it, it failed after about 2yrs.

What about it failed? If they calked the **** joints then I wouldn't be surprised it failed. OSI Quad is still very heavily used. The big stores sell it and contractors use the stuff by the case.

I think the Smartside on my detached garage was caulked with OSI Quad and it still looked fine after four or five years. I made some siding changes on my house this fall and used OSI Quad. We'll have to see what it looks like in a few years.

 

[reader2580]

A number of siding contractors have quit installing cement siding (Hardie) and are only doing Smartside now. One local contractor stated they had too many call backs with cement board, but they have have almost zero call backs with Smartside. They have even had houses with cement siding they had to replace under warranty.

Nobody really knows if either cement board or Smartside will end up being the next Masonite siding that has a huge failure rate. I don't think either product has been out long enough to really know. The biggest issue is going to be keeping up with caulking on these products.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

What about it failed? If they calked the **** joints then I wouldn't be surprised it failed. OSI Quad is still very heavily used. The big stores sell it and contractors use the stuff by the case.

I think the Smartside on my detached garage was caulked with OSI Quad and it still looked fine after four or five years. I made some siding changes on my house this fall and used OSI Quad. We'll have to see what it looks like in a few years.

It chemically/mechanically failed, it broke down, dried up, shrunk, cracked.. at the 2 year mark I was removing and replacing it. It was on the south side, getting full sun. Maybe I bought a couple miss mixed boxes ? It tools nice and cleans up nice, but it straight up failed. I think about maybe half of the south side I used OSI because they where sold out of PL.

I own 2 Cordless Milwaukee caulk guns.., Ive pushed that much caulk in my life ! This was not my first rodeo with caulk, I used to build retail stores. Just the first place I caulked that I was around later to see it fail...

 

[GirchyGirchy]

A number of siding contractors have quit installing cement siding (Hardie) and are only doing Smartside now. One local contractor stated they had too many call backs with cement board, but they have have almost zero call backs with Smartside. They have even had houses with cement siding they had to replace under warranty.

I was set on Hardie until we spoke with our contractor, who pointed us in the LP direction...not only from a quality standpoint, but ease of use as well. Normal blades, ends don't crack or split, longer board lengths, and it's lighter. We went ahead and have been happy with it so far.

 

[JamesW84]

I struggled with this is also. I ended up using metal flashing behind the **** joint, but obviously over the top of the siding panel below. I plan to paint the metal and it should blend in better.

 

[yeldogt]

I was set on Hardie until we spoke with our contractor, who pointed us in the LP direction...not only from a quality standpoint, but ease of use as well. Normal blades, ends don't crack or split, longer board lengths, and it's lighter. We went ahead and have been happy with it so far.

Every product has the plus and minus side. I like smooth low shadow line siding (no bevel) ... Hardie comes in wide profiles factory painted (often use the Timberbark) . The Hardie is superior to the LP finish IMO. No fire issues with Hardie.

The Smartside is lighter and easier to install -- it also allows for closer ground and wet area standoffs.

The panels are both max 16' ... I think. Have never had them crack or split.

I'm in no way knocking the Smartside. I buy the Hardie because the prefinished is a great product. Paint the trim ---- install the prefinsihed product. Done. The finish really holds up and it's just the right amount of sheen.

 

[yeldogt]

I struggled with this is also. I ended up using metal flashing behind the **** joint, but obviously over the top of the siding panel below. I plan to paint the metal and it should blend in better.

I buy a bit more product and lay it out so the butts are minimized ... With some thought and some waste you can get them down.

How do you see the flashing? it's under the ****?


I have a roll of thin copper -- made up a bunch of small flash strips for the butts .... it quickly turns color and matches the Timberbark. Should the **** open in the winter -- can't see

 

[thooks]

This is a great thread, minus the one or two replies that aren't in English.

 

[cshades]

in 2004 i had the wood siding on my house replaced with vinyl --- worst thing i have ever done. 2 years ago i had the front resided with smart siding i wanted to see how it would work on the worst side of the house(west face). the contractor used the h- pieces to **** the ends. i liked it so much i had the contractor come back last year to do the rest of the house--- unfortunately he could not get the wood to redo the deck on the rear of the house, so right now i have 3 sides done and the rest of the siding is in my garage. not only does it look better(not popping off in the summer) it also seems like it hads cut the drafts down in the house. i was getting a lot of draftiness on the west side. i asked him to pay special attention to the window seams/gaps. he told me everything looked ok so i assume the siding is just a lot better? i had the house wrapped when they did it before so i am not sure but i am a lot happier with the bed under the window not being so cold. this stuff was well worth the money to do.

 

[reader2580]

I got at least a 10% discount on my homeowner's insurance due to having Smartside siding. My agent explained that it is much less flammable than some other types of siding. My house had crappy vinyl siding on it when I got the insurance so maybe they charged more originally due to the vinyl siding. Vinyl siding burns real easily.

 

[yeldogt]

in 2004 i had the wood siding on my house replaced with vinyl --- worst thing i have ever done. 2 years ago i had the front resided with smart siding i wanted to see how it would work on the worst side of the house(west face). the contractor used the h- pieces to **** the ends. i liked it so much i had the contractor come back last year to do the rest of the house--- unfortunately he could not get the wood to redo the deck on the rear of the house, so right now i have 3 sides done and the rest of the siding is in my garage. not only does it look better(not popping off in the summer) it also seems like it hads cut the drafts down in the house. i was getting a lot of draftiness on the west side. i asked him to pay special attention to the window seams/gaps. he told me everything looked ok so i assume the siding is just a lot better? i had the house wrapped when they did it before so i am not sure but i am a lot happier with the bed under the window not being so cold. this stuff was well worth the money to do.

Vinyl siding leaks both water and air -- it's a deadfull product and requires a good rain screen. Properly installed lap siding should lower air leakage .... that's going to happen with any of them. Why did you get rid of the wood? Typically when priced out over time it's cheaper to paint ..and nothing looks as good as wood.

 

[yeldogt]

I got at least a 10% discount on my homeowner's insurance due to having Smartside siding. My agent explained that it is much less flammable than some other types of siding. My house had crappy vinyl siding on it when I got the insurance so maybe they charged more originally due to the vinyl siding. Vinyl siding burns real easily.

That's interesting .... are you in a fire zone ?

Has never come up with mine

 

[reader2580]

That's interesting .... are you in a fire zone ?

I am in Minnesota and not in any sort of fire zone I am aware of. I was talking to my agent about my renewal a couple of years ago and somehow it came up that I had put on Smartside siding. My agent said that qualified me for a discount because it isn't as flammable as other siding.

I'm sure we have all seen videos of how a grill or a turkey burner can cause vinyl siding to melt or burn, or you've seen photos of the aftermath. I've seen videos of house fires where the vinyl siding on a neighboring house was melting and on fire.

The insurance companies keep track of causes of claims. They apparently have found that they get less fire claims for Smartside siding than some other types of siding.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

I will share this, when I re-habbed my house, I re-sheathed it with OSB, and then I wrapped that with foil faced house wrap.

Hung furring strips vertically on the foil faced house wrap on 16' centers. Hung the lap siding on the furring strips. It was allot of screwing around, if your in a hurry, Id not recommend it. I have time to burn.

Essentially what I did was induce a vertical air draw from the skirt board up into the soffit vents.

This removed moisture that made it behind the lap siding, as well as the radiant heat from the sun, that penetrated the siding and heated the void of air behind the siding, as it was reflected by foil face wrap into the void ( 1/4"+ gap ).

Under the skirt board, I put some kind of ridge vent material to keep bugs and critters out of the wall " vent ".

Food for thought for those that are OCD about energy consumption, I would, and likely will do this again on my next house.

This was not my idea, I think I read about it in a book of best practices years ago. It was called a rain screen, but I guess it was be an advanced rain screen ? I added the foil component to it, for a radiant block and radiant blocks, work X-times better if the heat has somewhere to go ( a void with moving air in it )

This was on a house that sits up high on super flat land ( in the middle of a wind Farm no less ), with zero trees for miles and enjoyed wind on it 300+ days of the year. The house also sat in full sun all day. Lots of driving rain, violent summer storms, so really was trying to keep the inner wall dry. Radiant block was a real treat in the summer, with the Air on ALL summer due to the location of the home the windows where almost NEVER open.

As a side note, I burned all my scraps, that stuff is really not retarded from burning, or at least that I could tell. The stuff I used was made in 2010, they may have changed the " OSB " formula of it since. Clearly it wont light up like vinyl ( or melt when a near by fire happens ), just no one kid yourself that its good to put on a structure that enjoys nearby wild fires or the like...

 

[yeldogt]

I will share this, when I re-habbed my house, I re-sheathed it with OSB, and then I wrapped that with foil faced house wrap.

Hung furring strips vertically on the foil faced house wrap on 16' centers. Hung the lap siding on the furring strips. It was allot of screwing around, if your in a hurry, Id not recommend it. I have time to burn.

Essentially what I did was induce a vertical air draw from the skirt board up into the soffit vents.

This removed moisture that made it behind the lap siding, as well as the radiant heat from the sun, that penetrated the siding and heated the void of air behind the siding, as it was reflected by foil face wrap into the void ( 1/4"+ gap ).

Under the skirt board, I put some kind of ridge vent material to keep bugs and critters out of the wall " vent ".

Food for thought for those that are OCD about energy consumption, I would, and likely will do this again on my next house.

This was not my idea, I think I read about it in a book of best practices years ago. It was called a rain screen, but I guess it was be an advanced rain screen ? I added the foil component to it, for a radiant block and radiant blocks, work X-times better if the heat has somewhere to go ( a void with moving air in it )

This was on a house that sits up high on super flat land ( in the middle of a wind Farm no less ), with zero trees for miles and enjoyed wind on it 300+ days of the year. The house also sat in full sun all day. Lots of driving rain, violent summer storms, so really was trying to keep the inner wall dry. Radiant block was a real treat in the summer, with the Air on ALL summer due to the location of the home the windows where almost NEVER open.

As a side note, I burned all my scraps, that stuff is really not retarded from burning, or at least that I could tell. The stuff I used was made in 2010, they may have changed the " OSB " formula of it since. Clearly it wont light up like vinyl ( or melt when a near by fire happens ), just no one kid yourself that its good to put on a structure that enjoys nearby wild fires or the like...

There are now house wrap products that are also a rain screen -- the product has tiny dimples.

Old school wood siding, tar/felt paper and random board sheathing was all moisture permeable. Today, with all the manufactured products, there is a greater need for building in a way to dry.

 

[GirchyGirchy]

Every product has the plus and minus side. I like smooth low shadow line siding (no bevel) ... Hardie comes in wide profiles factory painted (often use the Timberbark) . The Hardie is superior to the LP finish IMO. No fire issues with Hardie.

The Smartside is lighter and easier to install -- it also allows for closer ground and wet area standoffs.

The panels are both max 16' ... I think. Have never had them crack or split.

I'm in no way knocking the Smartside. I buy the Hardie because the prefinished is a great product. Paint the trim ---- install the prefinsihed product. Done. The finish really holds up and it's just the right amount of sheen.

Smartside's now available in prefinished, and comes in 8" wide lap. They're 16' vs only 12' for Hardie.

BTW, caulking is perfectly acceptable at **** joints per LP.