Smoke and spatter while MIG welding, why?

[KMinAF]

On my current project I am welding 5/16 x 1 3/4. As I run a bead I am getting a tremendous amount of smoke and spatter. Instead of a nice "buzz" I am getting a "staccato" sound from the arc. This is a new issue for me, most of the time I am working with thinner material (14ga, .120 wall tubing etc)
Pertinent info:
.030 wire
The material was ground clean of any mill scale
No cleaner or solvent was ever used
Metal was from the remnant bin at the local supplier (stored outside but not rusted)
I tried adjusting wire speed up and down
Increased the voltage setting
Adjusted the regulator to 15 psi
75/25 mix in the bottle
Tried various points of grounding even putting a pad of steel wool between the clamp and material.
The welds appear to be acceptable with no noticeable porosity

Any thoughts or suggestions as to what I might have missed or am doing wrong?

 

[AnEv942]

Cant say- certainly see the smoke, and splatter, looks like flux core wire.
but the metal color looks off? probably the pics, curious

 

[LXCam]

Pretty typical of flux core wire. Are you sure there's no oil contamination?

By chance you're not running flux core with gas are you? That sulfer color sure looks like it. Also if that's the setting you're using for 5/16" thick metal it's way too low. Also I'm looking at this from a phone soooo

 

[chaosracing]

Check the wire you are using. It looks like flux core. I grabbed a small roll of solid wire at TSC a little while ago, glad I checked cause someone put flux core in the solid wire spot. Also check to make sure you have gas in the bottle as well. Heat looks a little low to.

 

[LXCam]

Wait a minute, is that galvanized metal. If so that's your issue and would explain the sulfer color and white smoke too.

 

[kabinenroller]

If the steel is galvanized be very carefull, the fumes from the galvanizing burning are toxic. You will get very sick.

 

[pi_guy]

If the steel is galvanized be very carefull, the fumes from the galvanizing burning are toxic. You will get very sick.

Really it is just white powder and smoke what can that do to you.


PRIME reason one should know what they are doing before they do it.
And if your not sure a welding class can save your children and other innocents from serious harm.

 

[KMinAF]

Thanks for the responses, its not galvanized just plain old cold rolled mild steel. The wire is .030 regular wire not flux core, 15lb spool that I have been using for the past three months with no issues. Metal was cleaned of any mill scale using flap disc grinder. I will try cranking the heat up one more notch or maybe go all the way to 11!

 

[R.Anderson]

.

Open it up and check the filter capacitor.

If the steel is galvanized be very carefull, the fumes from the galvanizing burning are toxic. You will get very sick.

Can get sick not will, zinc poisoning is not as bad as people think.

Zinc poisoning is where the term "Monday night fever" came from.

 

[AMCguy]

That machine is a little light for that thickness of metal.

There are some rules of thumb that can help you get in the ballpark with your parameters.

Generally you need about 1 amp/.001''. So for that thickness of steel you need about 300 amps. Amperage increases with wire speed. You'll need about 60''/min of wire speed with .030'' wire. Establish that you have that first.

Once you do that, increase the voltage until the sound smooths out. You likely won't get all the way there but the highest setting will give you the best results.

 

[larry_g]

That sure looks like something else besides plain steel, 1018. If you have a bit of scrap around try welding on that to see if it welds ok. If this is an older welder, when was the last time you replaced the liner? Did you check the spool for rust or dirt? The drive wheels in good condition?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[DanielC99]

Is that a new bottle of gas? Never happened to me but I've heard of people getting contaminated gas before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AJ.]

Is that a new bottle of gas? Never happened to me but I've heard of people getting contaminated gas before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was my thought, I have had it a couple of times where a bottle of gas just makes it smoke and spatter, once onto the next bottle it goes back to normal.

Cheers Andrew

 

[pepi]

Really it is just white powder and smoke what can that do to you.


PRIME reason one should know what they are doing before they do it.
And if your not sure a welding class can save your children and other innocents from serious harm.

Have you ever welded ? Galvanized fumes are toxic but so is carbon monoxide. Point being, is not to directly inhale either in a closed space.

Feel the interpret using common sense .

Greg

 

[M_George]

You can get a decent carbon filter mask for under $20. Don't risk your health.
I wear one any time there's fumes from my project.

 

[shoot summ]

I've had similar things happen when I ran the bottle out of gas.

Is the nozzle clean and clear?

 

[R.Anderson]

Have you ever welded ? Galvanized fumes are toxic but so is carbon monoxide. Point being, is not to directly inhale either in a closed space.

Feel the interpret using common sense .

Greg

I am pretty sure the first part was sarcasm in PI Guy's



But any ways, zinc poisoning is not as people make it sound like. It's not going to kill you welding a few small pieces, or make you sick. It takes quite a bit of zinc fumesto be inhaled to cause zinc poisoning.


Ever heard the term "Monday Night Fever" Workers build up a tolerance over the week and get two days off their body removes the "toxins" over the week end. Monday after full day's work of exposure, sick Monday night with the shakes. Rest of the week their tolerance is back, repeat.


Welding stainless steel is also toxic. I do not see people making a big deal about that when stainless welding show up here. Good news is you need to weld a lot of it to become Toxic.


Second the idea of low on gas or the gas is contaminated.



.

 

[Sycan]

That machine is a little light for that thickness of metal.

There are some rules of thumb that can help you get in the ballpark with your parameters.

Generally you need about 1 amp/.001''. So for that thickness of steel you need about 300 amps.

That can't be right??

Would need 375 amps to weld two pieces of 3/8 flat bar together

 

[KMinAF]

That can't be right??

Would need 375 amps to weld two pieces of 3/8 flat bar together

I'm gonna need a bigger extension cord!

 

[BD1]

Is the tip clean ? Sometimes the holes on the contact tip get plugged or covered. Maybe increase pressure to 20 , sometimes regulators are off and you are not getting enough gas. Frequently cheap wire doesn't run as smoothly as the higher quality stuff .

 

[AnEv942]

Thanks for the responses, its not galvanized just plain old cold rolled mild steel. The wire is .030 regular wire not flux core, 15lb spool that I have been using for the past three months with no issues. Metal was cleaned of any mill scale using flap disc grinder. I will try cranking the heat up one more notch or maybe go all the way to 11!

Umm Freudian slip? 11 would be wire speed though what you show does seem low for power setting. Doesnt explain the smoke or color though..
The suggestion on trying other steel to see if results same sounds like what Id check.

 

[Tinner]

That can't be right??

Would need 375 amps to weld two pieces of 3/8 flat bar together

It's not even close to right, as anyone with any real world experience would tell you.

 

[American Locomotive]

I know you said you hit it with the flap wheel, but that metal looks pretty dirty and grimy around the weld. Whatever is on the metal might be out-gassing when it gets hot and contaminating the weld. I would grind in a large area around the weld area.

Unless of course it's just the photo making the metal look strange.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Thanks for the responses, its not galvanized just plain old cold rolled mild steel. The wire is .030 regular wire not flux core, 15lb spool that I have been using for the past three months with no issues. Metal was cleaned of any mill scale using flap disc grinder. I will try cranking the heat up one more notch or maybe go all the way to 11!

FWIW, cold rolled has no mill scale, hot rolled does. I would as others have suggested, try running a bead on a scrap piece of material different from the problem material, just to rule it out.

Has your wire been kept in the machine from day one? I've had wire that sit out in my shop uncovered for a while that was miserable to try to run a decent bead. Ended up tossing it.

I've had more than my share of bad shielding gas. If the filling plant does not evacuate the bottle completely before refilling, it could be contaminated with either moisture or a different previous gas.

As others have mentioned, check and clean your nozzle and contact tip.

Good luck!

 

[notlob]

I will try cranking the heat up one more notch or maybe go all the way to 11!

Umm Freudian slip? 11 would be wire speed though what you show does seem low for power setting.

For AnEv942: Note to self - must see the movie Spinal Tap.

 

[kerrynzl]

Galvanized fumes are toxic but so is carbon monoxide. Point being, is not to directly inhale either in a closed space.

Feel the interpret using common sense .

Greg

WOOOOOOOOOO! The Big Scary Poisonous Gas Warning.

But any ways, zinc poisoning is not as people make it sound like. It's not going to kill you welding a few small pieces, or make you sick. It takes quite a bit of zinc fumesto be inhaled to cause zinc poisoning.


Ever heard the term "Monday Night Fever" Workers build up a tolerance over the week and get two days off their body removes the "toxins" over the week end. Monday after full day's work of exposure, sick Monday night with the shakes. Rest of the week their tolerance is back, repeat.

This is correct.

Galvanizing [or Zinc] when hazed at over 1000c in our atmosphere turns into Zinc Oxide fumes.
Zinc Oxide is the same **** you paint on your nose for sunblock.

Exposure to Zinc Oxide fumes fever is similar to drinking seawater, it will make you sick but it isn't deadly poisonous.
The syptoms of metal fume fever is your body building up a tolerance to it.

 

[KMinAF]

.

Open it up and check the filter capacitor.




Can get sick not will, zinc poisoning is not as bad as people think.

Zinc poisoning is where the term "Monday night fever" came from.

Would a failed filter capacitor cause the "staccato" arc? How is the capacitor diagnosed?

 

[MarkG]

I don't think anyone asked if you had your polarity set correctly----check it! Wrong polarity will cause that.

Second thing I'd suspect was your wire feed speed is wrong. Adjust while welding till you get a nice even sizzle. Works for me.

 

[LXCam]

Would a failed filter capacitor cause the "staccato" arc? How is the capacitor diagnosed?

Don't overthink this and start going down a road that doesn't need travele just yet. That welder is meant for 1/8 - 3/16 thick material you're really pushing it on that 5/16. Like has been suggested multiple times try it on some other piece and see what happens.

 

[yaidunno]

Your regulator controls output CFH, not PSI. I would recommend 18-20 CFH, as it looks to be lacking enough shielding gas. When you set this, are you doing it with the trigger pulled?

 

[ctb]

That looks to me like you're not getting a proper gas flow. I had a weld look the same when I forgot to open the valve. Can you hear gas hissing out the end of the gun when you pull the trigger?

 

[BigMike782]

Gas coverage or the lack of will not give that appearance.
Straight argon would give a lack of penetration, straight CO2 would give a little more spatter than 75/25. No gas or lack of would give a weld with "worm holes" from atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen.
Exactly what wire are you using? ER70S6?
Polarity will effect how it welds but will not give the soot looking stuff.

 

[KMinAF]

Thanks to all for the awesome response to my question. Unfortunately due to work schedule I haven't had the opportunity to try some of the suggestions but will certainly report back on my findings. As a matter of further clarification, everything was working great on my previous project of about two weeks earlier (pictures attached.) I have also attached a clearer picture of the as welded metal. The welded areas were bare metal shiney and the **** joints had been chamfered on both sides due to the thickness of the metal.
As to the "staccato" arc instead of a bacon frying buzz, would that be too fast of a wire speed?

 

[sanddan]

The weld looks dirty. I would clean the metal better, grind a 1/2" band down to bare metal on both sides of the weld and try a test spot. If it stlll welds crappy it might be the wire getting corrosion from sitting. This has happened to me and had the same symptoms as you are seeing. I tend to buy small spools so they get used up often as the copper coating will corrode over time. Bad gas will look way worse than your welds so I keep coming back to either the weld prep or bad wire.

 

[aka Larry]

it might be the wire getting corrosion from sitting. This has happened to me and had the same symptoms as you are seeing. I tend to buy small spools so they get used up often as the copper coating will corrode over time.

^^This. I've had the same thing happen to me twice as my shop gets a lot of humidity and the wire indeed gets corroded. It's easy to tell by running the wire through the gun and looking closely at it. On mine I would see copper, black, copper, black, etc as the wire came out of the gun. The black parts are corroded and doesn't make proper electrical contact with the tip, resulting in a poor weld. It acts almost the same as when you forget to turn the gas on.

 

[Superbec]

that looks" like some stainless profile ... is it magnetic?

welding stainless with sg2 wire and 75/25 will give the same results .

could also be some gas problems ...

my money is on stainless

 

[bdbecker]

Subscribing because I'm curious to see what ends up being the culprit.

I assume you have already checked the simple stuff... You mentioned you tried grounding in different spots, but is your ground lead tight at the welder? Is your positive lead to your gun tight as well? Clean nozzle, but how does your diffuser look? Is your weld gun seated properly and tight at the welder? Are the o-rings in good shape? Running the right size drive wheels for the wire? Just listing off stuff I've had go wrong...

 

[AMCguy]

That can't be right??

Would need 375 amps to weld two pieces of 3/8 flat bar together

It's not even close to right, as anyone with any real world experience would tell you.

Ok let me expand on this.

As a "general" rule of thumb and more so with thickness less than 1/4'' You can't go too far wrong with 1 amp/.001'' Having said that, The higher you get over 1/4'' the less it applies. For example, you don't need 1,000 amps to weld 1''.

Now you can weld greater thicknesses of metal with a lower amperages but that requires joint preparation and/or multiple passes.

The above rule of thumb takes into account you are trying to achieve maximum penetration with a single pass with little to no joint preparation and the joint must be no weaker than the parent metal.

Yes you can stick two pieces of 5/16'' steel together with 125 amps and the weld's surface appearance may be pleasing, but the weld will not penetrate enough for it to be as strong as the parent metal. That's fine for let's say a table frame where the metal chosen gives the frame rigidity and the weld simple holds the whole thing into the desired shape. It's another thing all together when the weld will be highly stressed or subjected to destructive testing.

In the OP's picture it's clear he's doing an inside corner weld. This will always take more heat. In this case I really don't think he's got enough machine, but I do think he'll get a better result if he tries what I first posted.

 

[f150skidoo]

Make sure you have a good ground or the arc will sputter a bit and create excessive splatter, just like if you have the wrong wire speed. I've owned 3 different MIG welders from 140-210 amps and all of them have produced some degree of smoke on the metal. Now my old Hobart handler 190 that I owned for over a year and I put through 150 lbs of wire at that point was starting to run rough no matter what I did. I changed the liner in the gun and bought a new ground wire and all problems were solved.

 

[BobsurUncle]

I've had this happen and not seen it mentioned yet. As stated from others, it looks like a shielding issue. Were you welding by the door with it open? Fan blowing on you in the shop. I know on a strong windy day, I'll get a good cross flow of air in my shop. I've had it blow the gas off the arc.