Snap-on crowfoot - FAIL

[Lomotil]

Snap-on 3/8" drive, 1/2" crowfoot with a 1964 date code... Spread open, slipped over the bolt, and is now stretched a hair over 1/32" wider at the tip of the jaws.

The ratchet used was a standard-length Proto 5249 (7" long) 24-tooth ratchet, 6" Kraeuter extension, with no cheater.

I realize that the design of a crowsfoot applies torque different than a socket, in that it's not centered on the bolt, but for some good ol' classic USA Kool-aid to fail like this leaves me scratching my head. At no point did the crowfoot engage the bolt at an angle, nor was the force applied to the ratchet in any other direction than rotating perpendicular with respect to the bolt itself. It was firmly seated on the bolt until it spread open and jumped onto the next pair of sides.

Oh, and to add insult to injury, the chrome started peeling, too.

Anybody else had bad luck with these?

 

[NinetyTwoFifty]

You should have bought Proto.

 

[Lomotil]

You should have bought Proto.

Before yesterday I would've said "the price was right" on these when I bought 'em, but after having to disassemble more than I planned on to gain access to that stubborn bolt, my respect for Snap-on dropped a notch or two...

 

[jtfc]

I wouldn't panic and melt down all of your snap on tools yet. The crowfoot is from 1964. If you bought it used the previous owner might have abused it or the metal just fatigued to the point of spreading. Regardless of what happened that socket has been around for 48 years and has probably paid for itself numerous times. Don't forget it has a lifetime warranty get a new one ...

 

[greasemonkey44]

**** happens its a piece from 1964.....its old and worn out send it in and get a new one

 

[njride]

ford *****, my model t just broke down.

Just kidding, I bought some used sk crowsfeet on ebay, hope they work out better.

 

[metalhead212121]

I agree with what jtfc said. Keep in mind that theres two kinds of crowsfeet. Flared and not flared. AFAIK snap on currently only sells flared crows feet. For the record I have 2 sets of crows feet standard and metric from craftsmen (not flared). I have one set of metric flared crows feet from snap on. Yes... all three sets have come in handy...

 

[Hiball]

Did he Say 1964?

 

[wreckercologist]

I don't know what Snap-on would have told you in 1964, but in 2012 they're good for 105 INCH pounds.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item..._ID=631841&group_ID=674856&store=&dir=catalog

Just sayin'

 

[NinetyTwoFifty]

I may be crazy, but if a tool is in good condition I expect it to work. Regardless of age.

 

[Damage]

I have never had much luck with standard crows feet of any brand. The only thing that has ever worked for me was the line wrench type. I have a cheap set of sunex, and they never spread or slip, I have applied a lot of torque on them as well.

 

[blacK20]

Could have been a poor quality fastener that caused the tool to slip and spread. The tool always gets the blame.

 

[outlander800]

Who cares? Send it in and get a new one.

 

[Knuckle Buster]

I may be crazy, but if a tool is in good condition I expect it to work. Regardless of age.

Thats the way I look at it.

 

[Hiball]

I may be crazy, but if a tool is in good condition I expect it to work. Regardless of age.

I agree... But im also fully aware that Any Open end fastener is prone to Spreading, especially if exposed to Repeated Torque loads over a 48 year period. Ive Never had good luck with Standard crowfeet anyway, I would much rather use a flare version.

I don't know what Snap-on would have told you in 1964, but in 2012 they're good for 105 INCH pounds.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item..._ID=631841&group_ID=674856&store=&dir=catalog

Just sayin'

Id venture to bet you could hit 8.75 ft lbs fairly easy with a standard length 3/8" ratchet.

 

[Danglerb]

8.75 FtLbs why not turn it with your fingers? That must be 105 ftlbs.

 

[Hiball]

8.75 FtLbs why not turn it with your fingers? That must be 105 ftlbs.

1/2" Open end Good for 105 ftlbs? LOL.... I was curious to see if the Flare version was any better, It was only rated for 250 inlbs.

 

[metalhead212121]

I have never had much luck with standard crows feet of any brand. The only thing that has ever worked for me was the line wrench type. I have a cheap set of sunex, and they never spread or slip, I have applied a lot of torque on them as well.

crows feet are NEEDED to do fuel filters on something like a Toyota Corrolla.
Good luck getting a wrench in there.

 

[blacK20]

1/2" Open end Good for 105 ftlbs? LOL.... I was curious to see if the Flare version was any better, It was only rated for 250 inlbs.

I have definitely used my crowsfoot flares wayyyyyyy over 250in/lbs on a regular basis. Still rock solid.

 

[Hiball]

I have never had much luck with standard crows feet of any brand. The only thing that has ever worked for me was the line wrench type. I have a cheap set of sunex, and they never spread or slip, I have applied a lot of torque on them as well.

crows feet are NEEDED to do fuel filters on something like a Toyota Corrolla.
Good luck getting a wrench in there.

I think if you re-read his post he is basically in the Same boat as me, The Flare version of Crowfeet are a better option and per SO's Website they are good for 150% more torque than the Standard Jaws.

 

[blue dog]

47 year old crowsfoot spread 1/32. really, you are crying the blues, and in a public forum. 47 YEARS OLD and purchased used. really.
REALLY !

 

[Hiball]

I have definitely used my crowsfoot flares wayyyyyyy over 250in/lbs on a regular basis. Still rock solid.

Yeah.. Thats just a Recomendation, Its not like the Tool will explode once it hits the Mark. And Remember that is for the 3/8 Drive/ 1/2" only. I didnt look it up but i expect as they increase in size, The Torque ratio climbs also.

 

[Lomotil]

I don't know what Snap-on would have told you in 1964, but in 2012 they're good for 105 INCH pounds.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item..._ID=631841&group_ID=674856&store=&dir=catalog

Just sayin'

At least they're not overstating their ratings...

As for the age of the tool, I don't see how age alone could adversely affect the performance of a tool. Hell, before expanding my tool options, I would always reach for the oldest tools when I knew I needed the added durability.

I have definitely used my crowsfoot flares wayyyyyyy over 250in/lbs on a regular basis. Still rock solid.

What brand are you using?

 

[blacK20]

^ so

 

[Lomotil]

47 year old crowsfoot spread 1/32. really, you are crying the blues, and in a public forum. 47 YEARS OLD and purchased used. really.
REALLY !

To be fair, it "spread" more than 1/32" - that's the measurement after it tried to return to it's original shape. Maybe I'm not using the correct term, but suffice it to say, it was useless afterward.

The bolt fared better than the crowsfoot did - fit a socket just fine after taking what was in my way in the first place.

 

[Fedwrench]

An open end isn't meant to break stuff loose regardless of whose name is on it. Flare crowfoot may have had a different outcome. Pass through socket probably even better outcome if the access was there..

 

[Lomotil]

^ so

Do you happen to know the year they were made?

Just curious.

 

[Lomotil]

An open end isn't meant to break stuff loose regardless of whose name is on it. Flare crowfoot may have had a different outcome. Pass through socket probably even better outcome if the access was there..

I guess my expectations were higher than what the tool was designed to handle...

 

[NinetyTwoFifty]

I guess my expectations were higher than what the tool was designed to handle...

Uh-oh. Now you've done it!

 

[Knuckle Buster]

47 year old crowsfoot spread 1/32. really, you are crying the blues, and in a public forum. 47 YEARS OLD and purchased used. really.
REALLY !

Well I bought a few Proto ratchets lately, but not because my old daily use ones failed in any way. My old ratchets ( from the 50's ) still work prefectly and they were given to me by a mechanic when he retired in the early 80's. They look like hell, but still perform as they should. Chrome is long gone on 'em now... but the OP's tool shines and doesn't look like it's been used much.

 

[Olafur]

Steel has its limits. And the difference between tool brands is not as great as some might think. Just looking at this crowfoot tells me it will spread quite easily. No matter what letters are stamped on it. It's just steel.

A tool like this is hardly ever exposed to enough cyclical loads to suffer metal fatigue. With the absence of cracks metal fatigue is not to blame. Neither is "old age".

 

[blacK20]

Do you happen to know the year they were made?

Just curious.

I am not sure. Mine have the laser etched lettering so most likely no older than 10yrs.

 

[Hiball]

I guess my expectations were higher than what the tool was designed to handle...

No big Deal... Your not the First person who has used the Wrong tool for the Job, I Wouldnt be so quick to dismiss "Any" Tool Manufacturer for a Failure when exceeding the tools Limits, Especially on a 48 year old, Second hand purchased one.

No Worries, Snap on will take care of it.

 

[Hiball]

Well I bought a few Proto ratchets lately, but not because my old daily use ones failed in any way. My old ratchets ( from the 50's ) still work prefectly and they were given to me by a mechanic when he retired in the early 80's. They look like hell, but still perform as they should. Chrome is long gone on 'em now... but the OP's tool shines and doesn't look like it's been used much.

Are you trying to compare a Ratchet that might have been Rebuilt by its Previous owner to a 3/8" Drive, 1/2" Drive Open end Crowfoot?

 

[Knuckle Buster]

Has anybody else noticed how tight an inner tie rod is on a rack box? Open end is about the only option ( even the proper tool is not a flare nut ) as many of those nuts only have two sides.. and can be fun to crack loose.

 

[Knuckle Buster]

Are you trying to compare a Ratchet that might have been Rebuilt by its Previous owner to a 3/8" Drive, 1/2" Drive Open end Crowfoot?

I was only defending the age of the tool.

 

[Hiball]

I was only defending the age of the tool.

Thats Fine... I have tons of OLD tools that are still Operational, But to Be fair im sure the OP would admit to exceeding the 8.75 ftlbs (<--- Thats a Crazy Number IMO) I would have thought it would have been good for more. If you took your 50 Year old Proto ratchet and exposed it to 400 ftlbs and they broke would you blame the tool or the operator?

 

[wreckercologist]

At least they're not overstating their ratings...

As for the age of the tool, I don't see how age alone could adversely affect the performance of a tool. Hell, before expanding my tool options, I would always reach for the oldest tools when I knew I needed the added durability.

Typically, a 1/2" hex would be on a 5/16" fastener. Most 5/16" fasteners torque to no more than 25 FT. LBS. Of course breakaway torque will be higher, but I would not have any problems grabbing my 1/2" open end crowsfoot and having at it............as a last resort if no other tool would reach and the fastener was in good condition. I second the notion that the tool or the fastener was already damaged and or user error was at play. By the way, tools can begin to fatigue with repeated use, especially open end wrenches.

I disagree with the idea that the older stuff is always better. It's not. I have mismatched sets of sockets, wrenches, and whatever else I bought new because the "old stuff" broke and was warrantied with new stuff that looks, feels, and IS better.

Better steels, better forming processes, better forging processes, better heat treating and annealing processes. I'll take the new stuff nearly everytime over the old.

The only good thing about the "good, old days" is they're gone.

 

[Danglerb]

I have a hard time imagining what good 8.75 ftlbs is. Won't break loose, won't tighten to spec, and if you need a crowfoot its not like you are using it to spin something on or off.

 

[Lomotil]

No Worries, Snap on will take care of it.

Without convenient access to a tool truck, my search led me to this thread for the Snap-on return policies, and this direct link to Snap-on's website.

On the second link, it states:

To obtain warranty service contact the Snap-on Customer Care Center via telephone at 1-877-762-7664 or e-mail [email protected]. The following information will be required with the customer’s warranty request: (1) date and proof of purchase, (2) where customer purchased the product, (3) full name, (4) shipping address, (5) phone number, (6) e-mail address, (7) item number(s) or approximate weight of return package.

Anybody have any "first-hand" experience trying to warranty a "second-hand" Snap-on tool without going through a vendor?

Thats Fine... I have tons of OLD tools that are still Operational, But to Be fair im sure the OP would admit to exceeding the 8.75 ftlbs (<--- Thats a Crazy Number IMO) I would have thought it would have been good for more.

So did I...

And, for what it's worth, taking off the obstructing components was done with a Snap-on GT936 1/4" ratchet and some 6-pt Craftsman deep sockets...

Typically, a 1/2" hex would be on a 5/16" fastener. Most 5/16" fasteners torque to no more than 25 FT. LBS. Of course breakaway torque will be higher, but I would not have any problems grabbing my 1/2" open end crowsfoot and having at it............as a last resort if no other tool would reach and the fastener was in good condition.

This was the case, minus the "last resort" part. It was more of a "convenience" in that less parts needed to be removed to access said bolt.

I disagree with the idea that the older stuff is always better. It's not. I have mismatched sets of sockets, wrenches, and whatever else I bought new because the "old stuff" broke and was warrantied with new stuff that looks, feels, and IS better.

Better steels, better forming processes, better forging processes, better heat treating and annealing processes. I'll take the new stuff nearly everytime over the old.

The only good thing about the "good, old days" is they're gone.

Interesting point. I can't think that the same theory would apply to, say, Craftsman, but would you say that this holds true with most of the "professional" brands?

Steel has its limits. And the difference between tool brands is not as great as some might think. Just looking at this crowfoot tells me it will spread quite easily. No matter what letters are stamped on it. It's just steel.

A tool like this is hardly ever exposed to enough cyclical loads to suffer metal fatigue. With the absence of cracks metal fatigue is not to blame. Neither is "old age".

Great post. Thanks for chiming in!