Snap-On dealer taking a loss . . .

[Teken]

One of the Snap-On dealers came by today and looked really pissed off! Didn't know why he was so cranky, because most times he is pretty calm, cool, and collected in terms of his demeanor.

After he's done his business with the other technicians I was about to roll on out for the day, as my job was done. I was about to leave, but noticed that he was parked directly behind me so I had to wait.

Ten minutes later I'm still waiting . . . So, I go hunting for the guy and realize that he is in the bathroom almost in tears . . . I ask him if he's alright and he tells me not one, not two, but three guys skipped town with over 35K worth of tools / box's . . .

He has been looking for these three guys for almost three months, and hasn't turned up a lead . . .

I don't even know what to say to the guy to be honest . . . So later on I'm oh his truck, and he shows me this video which I have attached.

It basically shows you what the dealers have to go through just to make a living . . . He said he received this video just before he started, as a reminder to stay on top of his clients, and if he felt they were the least bit risky to keep them on a short leash, or only extend a small amount of credit, or cash only etc.

I can't even imagine being a dealer, so hats off to those GJ members who have to deal with this sort of bull **** . . . All I know is knee caps would be broken, skulls would be rolling down the side of the road if I had to take a hit for 35K, someone is going to pay either in tools, money, or blood!

 

[mrshaun]

yup.... he is responsible for 25% of the 35,000 so he just lost a ton of cash right out of his ***. so when people say that this is easy money. look again.
I had a few at the end of last year, but I thank god that it has been really small amounts.
biggest was about 4000 and I ended up getting the box back the same time i got charged back and sold it to clear my end of the deal up.

 

[eborcim]

You know, it might not be a bad idea to put a lowjack system in these boxes!!!

 

[mrshaun]

yeah if they were used outside.... I had a guy go from texas to alabama. dealer found him and took his box back but didnt give him squat for it. he didnt give up any tools and still owes snap on about 2500. that one hurt a little.

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

My hats are off to dealers as well... I wouldn't want that job..... I just don't have much confidence in my fellow humans... (Hence why I could never be a cop or a tool dealer)... I already don't think too much of the dregs of humanity and being in jobs like those where I would deal with them on a daily basis would not help my disposition.



-BWP

P.S. I am not implying all techs are dregs. But you know there are some....

 

[sk farmer]

pretty crapppy of people to do that. that is tough for the dealer and hurts the good customers. but........3 people in over 35,000 each skipping out. that guy was not doing his job. too much kool-aid pushing and not enough being resposible. irresponsible for the buyers to buy that much and irresposible for the dealer to sell them that much. those guys likely owed 6 to 12 months or more of thier take home pay to the dealer. they were all in to deep if that is true.

 

[Teken]

I have to ask, and you don't need to reply here if its too personal for all to view and read. But my Q is this:

At what point do you decide to say to someone *you are cash only* from the beginning when you meet these guys?

I ask because if some new guy came up to me and had no history with me, all transactions would be cash up front or through CC, debit, or anything secure.

Fast forward and you have some regular dealings with these people I can see someone extending some credit etc. The problem I heard from this rep is that all three of these guys had years of service and had long term relationship with this SO dealer.

So in my eye's each day is a gamble, given the economic times . . . I dunno what I would do at first, but later on it would be pretty clear, bones, blood, would be broken!

 

[mrshaun]

he is not using all of the resources that are available to him. his credit manager can run the credit of those guys to find any current addresses etc.
facebook helps too. lots of people give up too much info there...

 

[bmwpower]

Damn. Something to think about when buying tools online.

 

[mrshaun]

yup. ebay is a good place to buy snap on tools that are not paid off. happens all the time

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

My old dealer said that he would always check serial numbers when he went to pawn shops and when people brought serial numbered items on the truck... (High dollar stuff I think)

What I wonder is if dealers know that said individual will buy/take a Brand new set of screwdrivers and pawn them that night to get their fix..

-BWP

 

[mrshaun]

i found one of out solus scanners at the local pawn shop once. they let me look at it and I called the serial number in and found the debtor and happened to be one that was really late. I called the dealer and he called the police and they came down and took possession of the item. pawn shop made the kid pay back what they gave him. 300 bucks and pay a fee for a total of 125 bucks. he also had to pay snap on a chunk and the dealer got his scanner back.

 

[Teken]

Well long story short because I didn't want to push the topic since I could see he was pretty upset so here are some of the bullet points:

1. Guy is expecting his first born so huge stress right there, because the baby is due this month.

2. Just bought a new house with a huge mortgage along with a new vehicle.

3. Of the three guys one is for sure out of the Province . . . The second guy left his wife and kids and all he took was his tools. The third guy is on the lamb still hiding in the city but hasn't turned up at any dealerships etc.

 

[mrshaun]

province? canada?

 

[Teken]

Yes, in Canada . . . I rather not say where because this is a private matter.

 

[Skin]

pretty crapppy of people to do that. that is tough for the dealer and hurts the good customers. but........3 people in over 35,000 each skipping out. that guy was not doing his job.

Agreed. I wouldnt give random people tools on truck credit, and never ever in amounts that high. Just begging to get taken. This is why god invented credit cards. The entire idea of truck credit doesnt make sense to me in my opinion. Either you have the cash and can buy the tool, or you charge it and pay the bank back. Either way i think its silly for a dealer to risk something by doing that unless it was a very good friend or a very reliable customer, but still $10+ grand on loan would be brainless.

Love the doucher in the vid "$30 payment!" great so you'll have that paid off in the middle of next year? Tard. Again though shame on the dealer. Some teenage punk and he just lets him take $2000 in tools on credit. Dumb. As if kiddies arent irresponsible enough with credit cards.

Even though it wouldnt of been right i would of loved it if the dealer clocked him one in the back of the head when he answered is cell phone. Obnoxious.

 

[mrshaun]

no doubt. it happens to every one though.
Usually my customers will tell me what I need to know. plus they like the repo tool prices.
I had one guy who owed 19,000 ( from another dealer ) he just left his tools and told the shop owner to just give them back to snap on. the guys in the shop got a little bit before I got there, but he had only 1/4 of the tools left that he owed on ( house fire destroyed most of the big stuff) that dealer got hit hard on that one.

 

[mrshaun]

yeah that dealer let a real young guy load up and skip out. not smart.

 

[ossaguy]

I don't think my dealer lets you go over a thousand,unless you do it thru Snap-on credit

If the customer skips out with a large mount owed to Snap-on cedit,does the dealer get hit for that,or is it just the revolving account balance? I've wondered about that/

Steve

 

[Sick Puppy]

he is not using all of the resources that are available to him. his credit manager can run the credit of those guys to find any current addresses etc.
facebook helps too. lots of people give up too much info there...

Facebook, the internet in general... they'll turn up somewhere.

Would love to name and shame these pricks who skip out leaving people holding the bag...

 

[drmarkr]

Facebook, the internet in general... they'll turn up somewhere.

Would love to name and shame these pricks who skip out leaving people holding the bag...

"Name and shame"?? That's not what we'd do down here in our parts......

 

[chadster1]

Snap-on Credit must runs things differently in Canada. I dont have 3 guys in my entire route with credit limits high enough to get a total of $35k in tools.

 

[Sick Puppy]

"Name and shame"?? That's not what we'd do down here in our parts......

I was being nice and giving people the opportunity to step up and pay their dues... I mean, you could tar and feather them, flog them, put them in stocks, string them up etc., but then they still don't pay up... kinda interesting though, I wonder if mechanics check their employees payment histories with the truck brands (or perform a credit check) to check their overall reliability etc.?

 

[chrislib]

Thats really disheartening, people in general just ****. Where is the accountability in the world anymore?n I`ve seen dealers get burned and have to repo stuff,I also have picked up some pretty good deals on used/repo tools myself, and I have been burned by tool dealers also (coke head who sent out some air tools for me for repair and then the jerk vanished), I feel bad for that Snappy dealer.

 

[sberry]

I feel bad for him too, right along with some mortgage brokers and car dealers.

 

[stock z/28]

That is a bad deal for dealers.

I have a friend that was a dealer and quit. If Im not wrong Snap On wanted some cash from him for a customer that defaulted, after my friend quit. Its been quite a while ago.

If the dealer has to assume the added risk, does he get additional compensation for company financing agreements?

It would seem if it were allowed, that the use of an independent finance company for high end purchases would help eliminate the dealers obligation after the sale?

Kinda seems to me the deck is stacked in Snap Ons favor here. I guess if the dealer knows the terms, its all fair.

 

[sunfire]

Some people seem to think credit/loans is free money. They don't need to pay anything back.

 

[chadster1]

That is a bad deal for dealers.

I have a friend that was a dealer and quit. If Im not wrong Snap On wanted some cash from him for a customer that defaulted, after my friend quit. Its been quite a while ago.

If the dealer has to assume the added risk, does he get additional compensation for company financing agreements?

It would seem if it were allowed, that the use of an independent finance company for high end purchases would help eliminate the dealers obligation after the sale?

Kinda seems to me the deck is stacked in Snap Ons favor here. I guess if the dealer knows the terms, its all fair.

Dealers know the terms going in. Writing contracts for SOC is a risk. Running any business is a risk. There are dealer who do not run a balanced business and they are usually the ones who get strung out on the large credit contracts when they go bad. There is a saying among veteran dealers, "RA is the way". The RA (truck accounts) is what a dealer needs to make his living off of. If a dealer has to write contracts to break even, he eventually is going to run into problems that can financially devestate him. I have seen it happen and I am sure Shaun has too.

That being said, there are some scumbag customers out there. It is funny to me how a guy can sign an agreement to make payments on his tools, then his situation might change. Then when Snap-on finally catches up to him and we try and collect the money that is due or retreive the merchandise that has not been paid for, all of a sudden the customer thinks we are assholes because we want to be paid.

 

[mrshaun]

you said it all chad.
luckily I have 104 on credit and only 2 didnt pay all last month and 4 the previous month.
I think that guy meant 3 guys totaling 35000.
I have a lot of guys here that have 10,000 - 15000 limits.

 

[sk farmer]

you said it all chad.
luckily I have 104 on credit and only 2 didnt pay all last month and 4 the previous month.
I think that guy meant 3 guys totaling 35000.
I have a lot of guys here that have 10,000 - 15000 limits.

limits yes, but out on the edge all the time with stuff that can disappear overnight or quicker. i would not sleep well at night with that program. i would wory about them not paying and me for putting them in that position.i won't bash anyone for wanting to buy the stuff and pay for it, but if you need to carry 15,000 all the time you should be seriously wondering why you are doing it. i am no lover of cman tools but 15,000 would buy a 10,000 cman set with almost 1500 pieces and storage to boot. i think that would cover most jobs and you would still have 5000 to buy one or two of those special tools you may need. not much bling but a pretty thorough assortment. please explain to me how oweing 15,000 in tools to anyone is responsible. i may be naive but i just don't get it.

 

[chadster1]

I have a lot of guys here that have 10,000 - 15000 limits.

Not me and I have been a SOC platinum dealer for 3 years.

 

[nate379]

This is Gary I take it? That is the only Snap On dealer in your neck of the woods that I know of.

One of the Snap-On dealers came by today and looked really pissed off! Didn't know why he was so cranky, because most times he is pretty calm, cool, and collected in terms of his demeanor.

After he's done his business with the other technicians I was about to roll on out for the day, as my job was done. I was about to leave, but noticed that he was parked directly behind me so I had to wait.

Ten minutes later I'm still waiting . . . So, I go hunting for the guy and realize that he is in the bathroom almost in tears . . . I ask him if he's alright and he tells me not one, not two, but three guys skipped town with over 35K worth of tools / box's . . .

He has been looking for these three guys for almost three months, and hasn't turned up a lead . . .

I don't even know what to say to the guy to be honest . . . So later on I'm oh his truck, and he shows me this video which I have attached.

It basically shows you what the dealers have to go through just to make a living . . . He said he received this video just before he started, as a reminder to stay on top of his clients, and if he felt they were the least bit risky to keep them on a short leash, or only extend a small amount of credit, or cash only etc.

I can't even imagine being a dealer, so hats off to those GJ members who have to deal with this sort of bull **** . . . All I know is knee caps would be broken, skulls would be rolling down the side of the road if I had to take a hit for 35K, someone is going to pay either in tools, money, or blood!

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

yup.... he is responsible for 25% of the 35,000 so he just lost a ton of cash right out of his ***. so when people say that this is easy money. look again.
I had a few at the end of last year, but I thank god that it has been really small amounts.
biggest was about 4000 and I ended up getting the box back the same time i got charged back and sold it to clear my end of the deal up.

If yall are responsible for at least 25%, why don't yall require a minimum of 25% down on anything purchased? It would see to me like that would make it a bit easier...

 

[Rnz520]

Yesterday I was on my dealers truck and I noticed he has been a bit different lately, I always ask him how business is going everytime I step on the truck and he always answers the same, just fine, but yesterday he was a bit cranky and when I went to pay off my truck account ( I owed him 28.59 dollars) he said if I wanted to do all 80 dollars.
I was like "what 80 dollars?" and he said I bought something for fifty dollars the week before, which I didnt, and I brought him last weeks receipt to prove it and he took it off.
I figured it was a minor mistake so I thanked him and let it go.
But then my co-worker traded in a hammer that had broken under warranty, and while he was there he asked how much would it be to upgrade to a larger one and it was a 52 dollar difference. He said no thanks its ok. Well he does a 100 dollar payment (50 RA 50 Credit) and tells my dealer to do it like that. Well when he came inside he talked to me and looked at his receipt: The dealer had charged him for the hammer under warranty, the bigger hammer, the 52 dollar difference, and put all 100 dollars on the RA.
Well my co-worker went back on and got it all fixed but we talked about it when he got out and it just seems he is starting to get desperate. We know he doesnt sell as much as Cornwell and Matco, and he is not consistent on his routes (some weeks its thursday, some friday, never same time, and sometimes not), a lot of other dealers and shops around us say he doesnt stop by anymore either, the truck is not very stocked.
I am just wondering if these could be signs he is not making ends meet and could be going out of business because I like having a SO dealer. Dealers please chime in.

 

[bgott]

Yesterday I was on my dealers truck and I noticed he has been a bit different lately, I always ask him how business is going everytime I step on the truck and he always answers the same, just fine, but yesterday he was a bit cranky and when I went to pay off my truck account ( I owed him 28.59 dollars) he said if I wanted to do all 80 dollars.
I was like "what 80 dollars?" and he said I bought something for fifty dollars the week before, which I didnt, and I brought him last weeks receipt to prove it and he took it off.
I figured it was a minor mistake so I thanked him and let it go.
But then my co-worker traded in a hammer that had broken under warranty, and while he was there he asked how much would it be to upgrade to a larger one and it was a 52 dollar difference. He said no thanks its ok. Well he does a 100 dollar payment (50 RA 50 Credit) and tells my dealer to do it like that. Well when he came inside he talked to me and looked at his receipt: The dealer had charged him for the hammer under warranty, the bigger hammer, the 52 dollar difference, and put all 100 dollars on the RA.
Well my co-worker went back on and got it all fixed but we talked about it when he got out and it just seems he is starting to get desperate. We know he doesnt sell as much as Cornwell and Matco, and he is not consistent on his routes (some weeks its thursday, some friday, never same time, and sometimes not), a lot of other dealers and shops around us say he doesnt stop by anymore either, the truck is not very stocked.
I am just wondering if these could be signs he is not making ends meet and could be going out of business because I like having a SO dealer. Dealers please chime in.

The last dealer that I had that started acting like that had developed a cocaine habit. I'm not saying that that is your dealer's problem, I'm just sayin'...

 

[toytech40]

My hat is off to the snapon dealers and other tool dealers here on GJ and anywhere out there providing a quality tool and service to the working people. But unfortunatly some of those working people feel the need to take these dealers for all they can. I have known several snapon and other tool dealers through my 25 years of mechanicing and am still friends with a couple that have moved on from the business. I tried to treat the dealers who served me like gold as I knew if I took care of them(as much as possible) they would take care of me and my needs and wants, and a few times they got out of a jam rather quickly. I always paid cash or made larger payments then required, all agreed on before the deal was done that there may be a week I might have to make smaller payments or maybe skip one due to other situations in my life. They were all cool with this and worked well, and I missed very few payments, or had to make a few reduced payments. Also if my truck balance got to be a little high(for my liking or the dealers liking) and I still needed some larger priced items I would do a rollover to SOC to get it off the truck books. Not sure if this was the best for the dealers but they never hesitated to do so.

Question, can SO dealers ask for a credit app to be filled out before extending RA to new customers? I had a couple of dealers that when they met a new customer they never dealt with before he would offer them a free hat, or tshirt or something if they would fill out a SOC app. Not sure if they used this for an idea how to extend them credit or what but I did notice some new guys were on a shorter leash with him then others. So just wondering if this is a SO thing or just something they did on their own. Not trying to get any of them in trouble if it is not approved by SO or illeagal in any way.

So again Hats off to tool dealers on here and everywhere for the essential service and quality product the provide. Even though I am not making my primary living from mechanicing I am still in contact with my snap on dealer a couple times a year for purchases and any warrenty replacements, which he still offers to carry me on a truck account even though I live outside his normal route, but he knows where I live, work, phone numbers and such, but i just pay cash, he's happy I am happy so all is good.

Andrew

PS as for the guys who skipped or anyone who skips out.........GET A ROPE

 

[Goinlow]

Yesterday I was on my dealers truck and I noticed he has been a bit different lately, I always ask him how business is going everytime I step on the truck and he always answers the same, just fine, but yesterday he was a bit cranky and when I went to pay off my truck account ( I owed him 28.59 dollars) he said if I wanted to do all 80 dollars.
I was like "what 80 dollars?" and he said I bought something for fifty dollars the week before, which I didnt, and I brought him last weeks receipt to prove it and he took it off.
I figured it was a minor mistake so I thanked him and let it go.
But then my co-worker traded in a hammer that had broken under warranty, and while he was there he asked how much would it be to upgrade to a larger one and it was a 52 dollar difference. He said no thanks its ok. Well he does a 100 dollar payment (50 RA 50 Credit) and tells my dealer to do it like that. Well when he came inside he talked to me and looked at his receipt: The dealer had charged him for the hammer under warranty, the bigger hammer, the 52 dollar difference, and put all 100 dollars on the RA.
Well my co-worker went back on and got it all fixed but we talked about it when he got out and it just seems he is starting to get desperate. We know he doesnt sell as much as Cornwell and Matco, and he is not consistent on his routes (some weeks its thursday, some friday, never same time, and sometimes not), a lot of other dealers and shops around us say he doesnt stop by anymore either, the truck is not very stocked.
I am just wondering if these could be signs he is not making ends meet and could be going out of business because I like having a SO dealer. Dealers please chime in.

We have a mac dealer just like this ( he doesn't try to overcharge us though). He never has anything on the truck, doesn't come by on a steady basis, and forgets ****. My boss said he's been like that for years and years now and somehow he stays in business. His prices are a bit insane though ( not really any deals all list prices. So I have only bought 1 thing off him. My snap on guy comes every Monday same time, always has tons of stuff and is very honest and respectful.

 

[stock z/28]

Dealers know the terms going in. Writing contracts for SOC is a risk. Running any business is a risk. There are dealer who do not run a balanced business and they are usually the ones who get strung out on the large credit contracts when they go bad. There is a saying among veteran dealers, "RA is the way". The RA (truck accounts) is what a dealer needs to make his living off of. If a dealer has to write contracts to break even, he eventually is going to run into problems that can financially devestate him. I have seen it happen and I am sure Shaun has too.

That being said, there are some scumbag customers out there. It is funny to me how a guy can sign an agreement to make payments on his tools, then his situation might change. Then when Snap-on finally catches up to him and we try and collect the money that is due or retreive the merchandise that has not been paid for, all of a sudden the customer thinks we are assholes because we want to be paid.

H Guys,

I guess I look at buisiness a bit differently.

For example, if I had a customer that wanted to purchase $20,000.00 of product, and had good enough credit to go to a reputable lending agency, and obtain a loan, I would see no issue with it. As long as I received payment for my products/services when rendered, and the money is legitimate, I see no problem with the customer using a lending company.

In my eyes the issue is with the way Snap On and their dealers have their third party financing contracts set as to shifting some responsibility to the dealer after the sale, in regard to the customer making payments.

Thats why it would seem that if a legitimate lender was used by the dealer and his product/service meet the terms of sale, his responsibility of payment by the customer is about "0".

A couple of things come to mind as to why outside financing is not used, but that is probably better not being discussed as its probably complicated as well.

As far as people not paying, I dont buy the whole being disappointed thing. I have been in buisiness for 30+ years and as far as Im concerned you have to assume the possibility of non-payment is a possibility and decide if you want the risk? Lots of reasons for people not meeting various obligations, some are legitimate, some are not, probably most are not, but I guess thats the risk of dealing in a business like yours. I hope the profit margin and benefits balance out the risk.

In my experience the vast majority of time you have to go after someone for payment, they are not going to be happy to see you, thats why typically its payment before delivery, unless I know the customer.

I think selling tools like you guys do is very tough business, and very hard to survive, especially in today's economy.

 

[chrislehr]

I don't understand why dealers are like..... um dealers... like drug dealers.

Tool transactions on a handshake? This isn't the 70s.. get a credit card, or an application for Snap on credit - let the leg breaking be someone else's concern. If you are baiting people into spending a lot when it's YOU extending the credit, then you are gonna get burned sometimes.. I would never put myself in that position.

 

[Underdog]

Seems like truck dealers are a lot like police officers, They get lied to, scammed and BS'd all the time then eventually get a nasty attitude from it. If I was looking for the deadbeats and had no other help I think I would talk to a bail bondsmen. They know how to find people.