Snap On Dual 80 ratchet question......

[mrholeshot]

So there are a lot of people on here who believe that Snap-on is breaking the law.

No they avoided that by removing the made in the USA stamp. It is such a topic of discussion on so many car and tool forums it looks like Snap-On who can make a stupid video of crushing a Matco toolbox in a car crusher would take a few minutes and make a video of the internals of a Dual 80 being made by US workers with proof of date. They seem to love You tube so much have you ever wondered why such a hot topic that is debated on nearly every large car forum, engine builders forums as well as other places that why we havent seen a video of the internals being made? I don't think anyone questions the absolute quality of the ratchet but if someone is going to dish out that much money they deserve the absolute proof and not the lip service of someone who has probably never used a ratchet. Dealers pass along what they are told. As far as Snap-On putting the Country of origin on the website here is what the law of that reads.

"For a product which has been produced in more than one country the product shall be determined to have origin in the country where the last substantial transformation took place"

So No Snap-On isn't breaking the law. They are however being deceptive and evasive. They are working within the guidlines of the law. It's a great company that builds great tools. They are just pulling the wool over the eyes of so many blind loyalist who refuse to belive that Snap-On would outsorce. They count on it from their core buyers and dealers. It's a true case of See No Evil, Hear no Evil, Speak No Evil.

A lot more people really care about where it's made when paying Snap-On prices but not many people question the quality no matter where the parts are made.

 

[chadster1]

No they avoided that by removing the made in the USA stamp. It is such a topic of discussion on so many car and tool forums it looks like Snap-On who can make a stupid video of crushing a Matco toolbox in a car crusher would take a few minutes and make a video of the internals of a Dual 80 being made by US workers with proof of date. They seem to love You tube so much have you ever wondered why such a hot topic that is debated on nearly every large car forum, engine builders forums as well as other places that why we havent seen a video of the internals being made? I don't think anyone questions the absolute quality of the ratchet but if someone is going to dish out that much money they deserve the absolute proof and not the lip service of someone who has probably never used a ratchet. Dealers pass along what they are told. As far as Snap-On putting the Country of origin on the website here is what the law of that reads.

"For a product which has been produced in more than one country the product shall be determined to have origin in the country where the last substantial transformation took place"

So No Snap-On isn't breaking the law. They are however being deceptive and evasive. They are working within the guidlines of the law. It's a great company that builds great tools. They are just pulling the wool over the eyes of so many blind loyalist who refuse to belive that Snap-On would outsorce. They count on it from their core buyers and dealers. It's a true case of See No Evil, Hear no Evil, Speak No Evil.

A lot more people really care about where it's made when paying Snap-On prices but not many people question the quality no matter where the parts are made.

You seem to forget that Snap-on is claiming that the Dual 80 ratchets are made in the USA.

 

[mrholeshot]

You seem to forget that Snap-on is claiming that the Dual 80 ratchets are made in the USA.

Where? On the website it shows "Country of Origin USA" That only means the last substancial step.

 

[chadster1]

Where? On the website it shows "Country of Origin USA" That only means the last substancial step.

Again, from the FTC link.

What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?
For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

 

[mrholeshot]

They arn't calling it "Made in the USA" thats the topic of discussion. If they would stamp it we would beleive it. Have the head of Snap-On come on here (after all we are the people who keep them in their jobs) and come right and tell us that every part on a Dual 80 is made right here in the USA and will continue to do so for at least the next 10 years. Then we will beleive it.

 

[chadster1]

They arn't calling it "Made in the USA" thats the topic of discussion.

Ok, so now we are debating linguistics? Country of Orgin: USA and Made in the USA mean the same thing.

Have the head of Snap-On come on here (after all we are the people who keep them in their jobs) and come right and tell us that every part on a Dual 80 is made right here in the USA and will continue to do so for at least the next 10 years. Then we will beleive it

You would not believe it if he did.

 

[Sterff]

You would not believe it if he did.

I don't think it would be hard to believe when he says that they are not made in the USA. Either way it makes Snap-on look pathetic for removing the stamp.

 

[mrholeshot]

Ok, so now we are debating linguistics? Country of Orgin: USA and Made in the USA mean the same thing.



You would not believe it if he did.

They don't mean the same thing. COO only means that is where the last substancial step was performed. "Made in the USA" means exactly what it says. Snap-On is playing the word game.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

...They seem to love You tube so much have you ever wondered why such a hot topic that is debated on nearly every large car forum, engine builders forums as well as other places that why we havent seen a video of the internals being made? ...

I have talked to the guys that MAKE the ratchets in TN. Bought one of them enough drinks in Orlando last year that he was telling me things that would get him divorced if the wife found out but he NEVER wavered in saying that they made ALL of the parts in the ratchets in the USA.

Did he speak good English? Hell no, he spoke Southern and I could understand him real well. He didn't stutter, he didn't avoid the question but he was pissed off because some bigwig made the decision to pull the USA stamp off of a lot of their tools. He was more proud of making tools in the USA than most of the posters on this site are.

I also talked to the guys that make their air impact guns as well as the battery powered ones. All made here (in the Carolina’s in fact). You keep on spouting off that they are not made here but the only proof that you offer is "I say so".

I'm calling BS until you can prove they are made outside of the USA. I will trust a guy with grease under his fingernails that is concerned about the USA stamp because he is MAKING them over your so-called "expert knowledge".

 

[chadster1]

They don't mean the same thing. COO only means that is where the last substancial step was performed. "Made in the USA" means exactly what it says. Snap-On is playing the word game.

Country of Orgin does not mean where the last substancial step was performed. You are confusing it with Assembled in the USA. Even the FTC agrees.

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

 

[Hiball]

Maybe someone here can Help Me.. Can i use a 12pt socket on a 6pt fastener?

 

[mrholeshot]

I have talked to the guys that MAKE the ratchets in TN. Bought one of them enough drinks in Orlando last year that he was telling me things that would get him divorced if the wife found out but he NEVER wavered in saying that they made ALL of the parts in the ratchets in the USA.

Did he speak good English? Hell no, he spoke Southern and I could understand him real well. He didn't stutter, he didn't avoid the question but he was pissed off because some bigwig made the decision to pull the USA stamp off of a lot of their tools. He was more proud of making tools in the USA than most of the posters on this site are.

I also talked to the guys that make their air impact guns as well as the battery powered ones. All made here (in the Carolina’s in fact). You keep on spouting off that they are not made here but the only proof that you offer is "I say so".

I'm calling BS until you can prove they are made outside of the USA. I will trust a guy with grease under his fingernails that is concerned about the USA stamp because he is MAKING them over your so-called "expert knowledge".

I never sai I had expert knowledge about the inner workings of Snap-On. I never said the battery powered tools wern't made in the US. They wernt mentioned. If I had expert knowledge about the inner workings of snap-on I wouldn't be questioning anything. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have enough of those as well as my foot in there already.

 

[Hiball]

Maybe someone here can Help Me.. Can i use a 12pt socket on a 6pt fastener?

Hmm Maybe i should start a New Thread ... I have so many questions and not enough answers... Do you think the Locking Flex is better than just the regular flex? Whatabout... Dual 80 versus the Matco 88 tooth ratchets? Or should i just buy a Gearwrench 60 tooth?

 

[chadster1]

Maybe someone here can Help Me.. Can i use a 12pt socket on a 6pt fastener?

Only if you put the socket on the correct way.

 

[nato]

Maybe someone here can Help Me.. Can i use a 12pt socket on a 6pt fastener?

lmfao!!!!
This debockle may soon lead to violent conflicts within our own borders!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hiball]

Hmm Maybe i should start a New Thread ... I have so many questions and not enough answers... Do you think the Locking Flex is better than just the regular flex? Whatabout... Dual 80 versus the Matco 88 tooth ratchets? Or should i just buy a Gearwrench 60 tooth?

Do i really need to buy a USA Jack or are the HF $49 dollar jacks just as Good... I know ive Read that the USA jacks are better but I im fairly sure they all just have a bunch of Orings thrown in the Hole.

 

[chadster1]

Hmm Maybe i should start a New Thread ... I have so many questions and not enough answers... Do you think the Locking Flex is better than just the regular flex? Whatabout... Dual 80 versus the Matco 88 tooth ratchets? Or should i just buy a Gearwrench 60 tooth?

I hear duralast makes a decent ratchet.

 

[mrholeshot]

Country of Orgin does not mean where the last substancial step was performed. You are confusing it with Assembled in the USA. Even the FTC agrees.

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or VIRTUALLY all" made in the U.S


VIRTUALLY (from Websters) almost entirely : nearly

 

[nato]

Craftsman and Harbor Freight tools blow!!!! Snap On is king, doesn't matter where the hell their tools are made!!! Matco is just Craftsman/Sears Danaher, that's all that matters!!!!! Wright is the ONLY true U.S.A toll manufactering company!!!!! Big block V8's will alaways be the best ever!!! Chevy and Dodge ****, buy a Ford!!!!!!!!
It's your own fault your credit is the way it is, **** it up!!!!!
You shouldn't have banged her, now she's pregnant and you have to live w/ the consequences!!!!!!
SK tools are garbage, they can't even keep thier customer's happy!!!!!!!
My dog is better than yours, he can play fetch & stuff!!!!!!
MAC tools were sweet back in the day, now it's all China specialties but we still love thm anyhow!!!!!



......jeeeeeeeezz.....

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I never sai I had expert knowledge about the inner workings of Snap-On. I never said the battery powered tools wern't made in the US. They wernt mentioned. If I had expert knowledge about the inner workings of snap-on I wouldn't be questioning anything. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have enough of those as well as my foot in there already.

OK, Back to the ratchets, show us proof of your "non expert" knowledge on the subject. I know that they are made in the Snap-on plant at 2195 State Line Road, Elizabethton, Tennessee by good old American workers.

Where are you claiming they are made? Do you have a plant name? Address? do you even have a COUNTRY in mind?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I hear duralast makes a decent ratchet.

But only if used with Indian sockets, they are softer and more gentle.....

 

[Hiball]

Craftsman and Harbor Freight tools blow!!!! Snap On is king, doesn't matter where the hell their tools are made!!! Matco is just Craftsman/Sears Danaher, that's all that matters!!!!! Wright is the ONLY true U.S.A toll manufactering company!!!!! Big block V8's will alaways be the best ever!!! Chevy and Dodge ****, buy a Ford!!!!!!!!
It's your own fault your credit is the way it is, **** it up!!!!!
You shouldn't have banged her, now she's pregnant and you have to live w/ the consequences!!!!!!
SK tools are garbage, they can't even keep thier customer's happy!!!!!!!
My dog is better than yours, he can play fetch & stuff!!!!!!
MAC tools were sweet back in the day, now it's all China specialties but we still love thm anyhow!!!!!



......jeeeeeeeezz.....

Geez Man.. You forgot the Most important One.

Unions are Da'Devil

 

[Hiball]

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or VIRTUALLY all" made in the U.S


VIRTUALLY (from Websters) almost entirely : nearly

So Jim, would you consider a Dual 80 ratchet with Foreign Guts and Everything Else USA Made to be "Virtually" Made in the U.S? If so.. Why would they remove the Stamp if Legally they could keep it there? This, Coupled with there USA claim on the package and Computer is why i believe they are Pushing for there Share of the Global Market versus the conspiracy. I dont like it, but.. I have No reason not to believe them. I think the Dual 80 Ratchets are Great, I also think there Customer Service is First Rate but i recently dumped my collection and went back to my Roots at Wright. I do not think we should be ashamed of our Country and any Company who Goes this Route will be banished from my toolbox. The best part was i sold 6 Dual 80 tech ratchets (So Far) and bought 12 "New" Wrights with the Proceeds.. With those 12 and my current selections i believe i only need 2 more to complete my collection of Current Production models.

 

[mrholeshot]

OK, Back to the ratchets, show us proof of your "non expert" knowledge on the subject. I know that they are made in the Snap-on plant at 2195 State Line Road, Elizabethton, Tennessee by good old American workers.

Where are you claiming they are made? Do you have a plant name? Address? do you even have a COUNTRY in mind?

I don't have a clue. I question where they are made or actually where some parts may be made. I've never said they wern't made in the US but I did say it was either they wern't made or soon won't be. If I was sure it wouldn't even be a topic. I know where the plant is and I know they build and assemble it there. My question is with the internals. I have absolutly no proof but I'm not the one building them. I'm asking for proof. How can I show you my "non expert" proof? I'm the one with the questions. I never made any claims to knowing anything about them other than Snap-On pulling the stamp off the ratchet. Everything happens for a reason. I'm fairly certain it isn't to please terrorist buying Snap-On

 

[mrholeshot]

So Jim, would you consider a Dual 80 ratchet with Foreign Guts and Everything Else USA Made to be "Virtually" Made in the U.S? If so.. Why would they remove the Stamp if Legally they could keep it there? This, Coupled with there USA claim on the package and Computer is why i believe they are Pushing for there Share of the Global Market versus the conspiracy. I dont like it, but.. I have No reason not to believe them. I think the Dual 80 Ratchets are Great, I also think there Customer Service is First Rate but i recently dumped my collection and went back to my Roots at Wright. I do not think we should be ashamed of our Country and any Company who Goes this Route will be banished from my toolbox. The best part was i sold 6 Dual 80 tech ratchets (So Far) and bought 12 "New" Wrights with the Proceeds.. With those 12 and my current selections i believe i only need 2 more to complete my collection of Current Production models.

I've never questioned the quality of the Dual80, I love them and keep getting more of them. I would have no problem with them outsorcing. My biggest issue is IF they are in fact "Made In USA" they should be marked as such. I just can't beleive they pulled it off to enter the global market. Snap-On has been in the global market for a long time. I love Snap-On tools. It's one of the reasons it's upsetting. If it was Matco I wouldn't give a rats ***.

 

[chadster1]

The definition of origin from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/origin

or·i·gin   /ˈɔrɪdʒɪn, ˈɒr-/ Show Spelled
[awr-i-jin, or-] Show IPA

–noun
1. something from which anything arises or is derived; source; fountainhead: to follow a stream to its origin.
2. rise or derivation from a particular source: the origin of a word.
3. the first stage of existence; beginning: the origin of Quakerism in America.
4. ancestry; parentage; extraction: to be of Scottish origin.
5. Anatomy .
a. the point of derivation.
b. the more fixed portion of a muscle

RKRF80, the repair kit for a 3/8 drive dual 80 ratchet.

Stock # RKRF80
Name Kit, Ratchet Service
Price** $10.00
Brand Snap-on
Country Of Origin USA

Since the repair kit which contains all of the inner workings of a dual 80 is made in the USA as well. I am not sure what other part someone could claim is not made in the USA.

 

[Hiball]

I've never questioned the quality of the Dual80, I love them and keep getting more of them. I would have no problem with them outsorcing. My biggest issue is IF they are in fact "Made In USA" they should be marked as such. I just can't beleive they pulled it off to enter the global market. Snap-On has been in the global market for a long time. I love Snap-On tools. It's one of the reasons it's upsetting. If it was Matco I wouldn't give a rats ***.

Yeah.. I wasnt questioning your Opinion of the Ratchets. I was only trying to make a point if even under the current FTC guidlines if they could legally stamp them with the USA with Foreign Guts. Why wouldnt they? Unless they where doing it to push into the Global Market? Im not a Expert on FTC rules and regulations regarding COO and i expect there are some sort of guidlines out there. I do know from reading FTC letters from there site that Snap on was very adimate on not Allowing any Wishy Washy behavior from other tool companies in regards to Labeling the tool USA.

 

[mrholeshot]

Again it comes dow to the COO and Made In USA.

Lets just agree it's an incredible ratchet despite the dispute

 

[Hiball]

Again it comes dow to the COO and Made In USA.

Lets just agree it's an incredible ratchet despite the dispute

Yeah.. I have No Problem with that.

 

[leod]

i praise the person who took out the stamp. its not symmetrical that way, italics on center and regular font on the bottom?

you'll be sorry if they put "guaranteed for life" on the handle and put stamp everywhere

 

[treasureseeker]

http://www.ftc.gov/opp/madeusa2/c685.htm

 

[mrholeshot]

http://www.ftc.gov/opp/madeusa2/c685.htm

I laughed my *** off on that 1997 letter. Even Snap-On knows the value of the "Made in USA" stamp.

 

[toolmaker1]

http://www.ftc.gov/opp/madeusa2/c685.htm

I think the best thing we as members of this site can do is quit bickering and copy the body of that letter and send it along with our own thoughts about the "made in USA" stamp on their tools. Maybe if enough of us let them know how much this bothers us they will take notice. It sure makes them as a company look like hippocricital idiots when one of their management team sends a letter like that to congress and then they remove the coo stamp on their tools. At the very least this will make them think

 

[chadster1]

I laughed my *** off on that 1997 letter. Even Snap-On knows the value of the "Made in USA" stamp.

That was a district manager, not anyone in corporate. District managers were about as low on the food chain as you could get within Snap-on field personnel.

Oh, and for the record. I wish they would put the USA stamp back on the tools as well. But, I have yet to have a single solitary customer bring this issue up to me in the approximately 4 years since they have removed the USA from the ratchets.

 

[treasureseeker]

My interpretation of the letter is that at the time the FCC was going to lessen the requirement for what made in the USA meant. And that Snap On felt it was unfair to have to compete with companies importing part of their items and still being able to say made in America.

That was a district manager, not anyone in corporate. District managers were about as low on the food chain as you could get within Snap-on field personnel.

I have read more on this in the past and Snap On was part of a group of Companies that spoke out against a change in what Made In America meant.

 

[Sterff]

Most people think USA when talking about Snap-on. Now you have to wonder about it

 

[chadster1]

I have read more on this in the past and Snap On was part of a group of Companies that spoke out against a change in what Made In America meant.

You are probably right. I have not spent a whole lot of time reading about that. The letter posted was dated in 1997.

 

[turkdc]

F**k me. Not this s**t again.

 

[shanker]

F**k me. Not this s**t again.

i was thinking the same thing.....

 

[mrholeshot]

F**k me. Not this s**t again.

There is a big arrow on the upper left side of your screen that will take you right out of this discussion.