Snap-On FDX Equivilents

[PeteGLEV]

Before I go purchasing a set, I want to see if there are any equals/alternatives to the FDX sockets.

For context, I have an EV repair shop, and most of work we do is major jobs on old Tesla Model S's. These are aluminum body/frame with steel fasteners. We see very few rusted heads, but plenty of dissimilar metal corosion, and plenty of excsisive loctite from the factory. We also get a lot of cars that have been failed repair from other shops, and subframes, motor mounts, etc are often re-installed well beyond factory spec. Add to that the fact that a lot of these bolts have extremely shallow heads, and you can start to see my problem.

I do own a complete set of Koken Z-Series sockets. While they have the fit required, they don't have the wall thinkness to stand up to repeated use in many of the larger bolt sizes. My 21mm shallow Z series made it through about 2 sub-frames before the walls started to bow out and it lost its tight fit. I've been getting along with my Icon set (I've compared to standard Snap-On Flank Drive from an employee and found no difference in this application) but the amount of times I slip off fasteners has become unacceptable. It's difficult both in removal and installation. Torquing a fastener with a 6mm deep head to 140nm is pretty rough like this.

My shop doesn't buy the volume of tools to get the Snap-On guy to regularly visit, but after a couple of months I finally got a single 21mm FDX socket in to see if it worked. It's been several weeks now and it's not cammed out or slipped off a single time. It's now possible to actually remove/torque some of these bolts without injuring myself. So given that, I'm willing to buy a full set (at full price, the local truck won't warranty tools not bought from him), but I wanted to do my due diligence to find out who else makes an equal to the FDX, if any.

 

[pfbz]

Look at the Ko-ken "Surface Drive series" instead of the Z-series... They won't have that super-tight Z-series like fit even when new, and are not designed to. They are designed to engage the flats instead of the corners for higher torque applications and with specialty bolts that you don't want to damage.

Surface drive is definitely heavier duty. the Z-series are more of a low clearance use case with thin walls. They make them in chrome and impacts...

 

[PeteGLEV]

Unfortunately, the surface drives have a pretty significant lead in. This reduces the contact area and makes it prone to slipping. I need a socket with little or no lead in, like the FDX. Here's a standard lead in socket, an example of one of these fasteners, and an FDX for reference. Sockets with lead in are undesireable. Imagine a 26-36" breaker bar/ratchet behind this.

 

[pfbz]

I'm not sure that is correct, it would take some serious deformation of either the bolt or the socket to slip, and the whole point of surface drive is to deliver the torque towards the center of the flat face, but if you've had experience otherwise...

 

[PeteGLEV]

It's not a matter of deformation, it's a matter of if the fit isn't good and the application of force isn't perfectly symetrical, then instead of imparting rotational force the socket/ratchet cam off the very shallow fastener. Nothing is deformed, it just falls off and you ****** your knuckles. It's very hard to keep a perfect application of force at these lengths of breaker bars and ratchets.

 

[terrific]

I'm not sure that is correct, it would take some serious deformation of either the bolt or the socket to slip, and the whole point of surface drive is to deliver the torque towards the center of the flat face, but if you've had experience otherwise...

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the socket's chamfer. The head on that bolt is pretty short. Since the socket on the right has no chamfer, it will make contact with the entire vertical dimension of the bolt's head, whereas the socket with chamfer will only catch the top edge.

 

[Dankotaru]

The MAC Tools RBRT or Craftsman Overdrive sockets have a tight fit that grip the flanks, and are probably the closest to the FDX but slightly more aggressive.

 

[PeteGLEV]

The MAC Tools RBRT or Craftsman Overdrive sockets have a tight fit that grip the flanks, and are probably the closest to the FDX but slightly more aggressive.

Looks interesting... Still has a deep lead in though. Also it doesn't seem to go higher than 19mm even in 1/2"? The sizes I use most often are 13, 15, 16, 18, 21, 22 and I'd like to get both 3/8" and 1/2" drive for as many of those as possible.

 

[pfbz]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the socket's chamfer. The head on that bolt is pretty short. Since the socket on the right has no chamfer, it will make contact with the entire vertical dimension of the bolt's head, whereas the socket with chamfer will only catch the top edge.

That makes sense and I can see that being a factor... He was talking about "tight fit" though, which sounded more like the point of contact vs. the chamfer being an issue with flange bolts like the one shown. Though I also think the radius on the flange itself might minimize any reduction in bolt head contact?

 

[rsanter]

I have made deals with a couple of snap on guys in the past.
i let them know that that don’t need to stop by every week as I won’t be buying that much. Bo if they will stop by when I call them I will be buying or needing something warrienty swapped.

in both cases they accommodated me and appreciated that I was not going to waste their time.
also in both cases I would let them know what I wanted and they would order it if it was not on the truck.
a couple times I needed the tool right then that day so I either went to where they were or they came to me

if your snap on guy won’t do this then he is missing out or just an *******

and any SO guy that will only warranty stuff bought from him I think does not align with company policy

 

[Buckgnarly]

The FDX have saved my **** a few times on rusted stuff, but I have never looked at the chamfer before. Seeing that makes me like them even more!
There are many fasteners that have been cammed off in the past, but still have decent meat at the base of the hex. No chamfer can take advantage of that little bit.

 

[PeteGLEV]

I have made deals with a couple of snap on guys in the past.
i let them know that that don’t need to stop by every week as I won’t be buying that much. Bo if they will stop by when I call them I will be buying or needing something warrienty swapped.

in both cases they accommodated me and appreciated that I was not going to waste their time.
also in both cases I would let them know what I wanted and they would order it if it was not on the truck.
a couple times I needed the tool right then that day so I either went to where they were or they came to me

if your snap on guy won’t do this then he is missing out or just an *******

and any SO guy that will only warranty stuff bought from him I think does not align with company policy

I don't really blame him. Everyone at my shop either has over a decade of tools, or they're an aprentice and we advise them not to get on the truck yet. We don't actually use that wide of a variety since 75% of our work is one model of car from a 5 year production range (2012-2017 Tesla Model S). We're in one of the two areas in town where zoning permits our HV battery reman operations, it's not the nicest area, and most of the other shops here are either ancient, or struggling. Either way probably not making him a bunch of money. Sometimes he'll stop by if we ask, but only if the classic custom guy is in across the street so he can make his payment. It's just not consistent.

 

[Wamsutta]

If the FDX works as well as you say it does, that may be your only option until their patent wears off.

I'm sure Harbor Freight is chomping at the bit to attempt to make a copy as soon as the patent is no longer preventing them.

 

[rsanter]

I don't really blame him. Everyone at my shop either has over a decade of tools, or they're an aprentice and we advise them not to get on the truck yet. We don't actually use that wide of a variety since 75% of our work is one model of car from a 5 year production range (2012-2017 Tesla Model S). We're in one of the two areas in town where zoning permits our HV battery reman operations, it's not the nicest area, and most of the other shops here are either ancient, or struggling. Either way probably not making him a bunch of money. Sometimes he'll stop by if we ask, but only if the classic custom guy is in across the street so he can make his payment. It's just not consistent.

Either way, there is a customer service element to his job.
if he is willing to stop by upon request then I would look at that as a good option.

my guys didn’t need to stop by more that 8-10 times a year, but when they did it was not a waste of their time.

at one time I had a snap on guy that lived near me. I would stop and get things from him as needed and warranty things as needed, he was always cool about it

snap on is good about online/phone warranty as well, it’s just if you need it today or this week it can be an issue.

have you tried an impact socket? Maybe trim the end down a bit on a lathe?

 

[pfbz]

I have made deals with a couple of snap on guys in the past.

i let them know that that don’t need to stop by every week as I won’t be buying that much. Bo if they will stop by when I call them I will be buying or needing something warrienty swapped.

in both cases they accommodated me and appreciated that I was not going to waste their time. also in both cases I would let them know what I wanted and they would order it if it was not on the truck.
...
if your snap on guy won’t do this then he is missing out or just an *******
...
and any SO guy that will only warranty stuff bought from him I think does not align with company policy

I'm done with Snap On truck franchisees... I have plenty of Snap On tools, and buy new SO tools semi-regularly, but I just go through corporate.

The corporate warranty process is smooth and for me painless. I call or fill out their online form, they email a pre-paid shipping label, then they send out a replacement tool as soon as they get the original back. It usually takes about 7-10 round trip if I mail out the same day.

No ******** hassles, no delays, no putting in rebuild kits or replacing blades/handles, just brand new factory fresh tools shipped to my door. Latest version if I have an older tool.

I don't love the corporate $25 flat rate shipping for new tool orders under $250 (free above $250), but I either batch my orders to hit the minimum (not hard to do at SO pricing!) or **** it up and pay it for not having to deal with a cranky SO truck owner who is generally pissed off that his business model is fading quickly...

I know some guys have GREAT Snap-on truck franchisees, and those guys are lucky. I hear far more stories about truck guys who are decidedly NOT great.

 

[Steve_P]

It sounds like you need the SO FDX sockets with those short hex heads. Especially if you are doing this to make $.

Call your dealer. Tell him you want to buy some and that if he can't come to you, you'll meet him at one of his local regular stops. I can understand him not wanting to stop by every week if you don't buy anything, but if you meet him....

 

[rust in the eye]

"It's difficult both in removal and installation. Torquing a fastener with a 6mm deep head to 140nm is pretty rough like this."
I'll bet it is. I hope you have a straight shot at these. Clearly little regard for the guys in the field by the original engineers.
Given this is a TOOL and not jewelry as some treat it I'll suggest sheer blasphemy in the form of grinding off the chamfered portion of, let's say Icon which you've stated to be ~equivalent to......... You'll need to regard them as consumable but it you make your living this way it's justifiable.

 

[308guru]

Pulling a technique from the world of bicycles, chamferless sockets would be great for use on bolts with heads that short. Top caps on forks have heads that are very short and a traditional socket will barely grab it (almost guaranteed damage).

So.....Put your sockets in a lathe and trim the end off.