Snap On History

[woody 73]

I must have lost it for a few seconds back a week or two ago when some fool troll started in with snap On is a disease...Blah, Blah, Blah, but somehow the post got deleted.

Well to make up for that posting fool nonsense today is a new day and a new story that I just posted in the vintage tool section, that I hope you all enjoy.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356765

If only a few of those trolls would put all their energy into working on a good story we would all learn something new.

Woody

 

[Tallpilot]

A few points:
Snap On sockets are second to none and the ratchets are quite awesome. Their ball joint press is absolutely superior to everything else out there. The junk they sell from China is the same as all the other junk from China and having a Snap On logo on it makes it worse.

Their mark up is quite high and depending on the product in question ranges from rediculous to complete lunacy.

 

[T45]

woody - is that patent filing on wrench geometry for the ratcheting wrench itself, or is that the the flank drive style box end?

 

[pi_guy]

I must have lost it for a few seconds back a week or two ago when some fool troll started in with snap On is a disease...Blah, Blah, Blah, but somehow the post got deleted.

It seems that the whole Snap On thing elicits strong responses in particular over cost. & it often comes off very badly. Much like Mac vs PC

If only a few of those trolls would put all their energy into working on a good story we would all learn something new.

Woody

Trolls expend very little energy they just toss the ball into the crowd and watch it move about.

So I am adopting a if you have to ask you do not need it policy.

 

[woody 73]

woody - is that patent filing on wrench geometry for the ratcheting wrench itself, or is that the the flank drive style box end?

Very good question I found this out from one of are older GJ posts:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5798

Used on a wide range of sockets and the like:

http://datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=3273430&typeCode=0

So with the patent being that old it ran out a long time ago.

 

[B_Bimmer]

Trolls expend very little energy they just toss the ball into the crowd and watch it move about.

So I am adopting a if you have to ask you do not need it policy.

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time without anyone explaining the difference and sharing their experiences with both good and poor tools, people could easily get discouraged or even hurt. Sometimes I wish their were two sections to this forum, one for people who use tools and one for people who like a full toolbox they never actually use but love to justify, that last group would contain all the stuff I can do without on both ends of he cost spectrum.

 

[T45]

It seems that the whole Snap On thing elicits strong responses in particular over cost.

The issues about price is problematic because it gets into class warfare.

 

[T45]

Very good question I found this out from one of are older GJ posts:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5798

Used on a wide range of sockets and the like:

http://datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=3273430&typeCode=0

So with the patent being that old it ran out a long time ago.

From the link -- for those interested -- This is indeed the flank drive patent of 1963

The central principle in patent no 3,273,430 is a geometry whereby wrench sockets, etc. grip hexagonal nuts on the flats rather than the corners. There are no sharp inside corners in this geometry. This avoids "rounding " the nut corners and sharp corners in the sockets which lead to stress cracks and breakage. The patent number appears on a wide range of Snap-On sockets, box end wrenches and the like.

U.S. Patent nos. 2,445,905, 2,961,905, 3,079,819 and 3,125,910 along with three foreign patents are cited as relevant prior art.

 

[gungatim]

the whole snap-on thing to me is a lot like dyson vacuum's and bose speakers...good products, over-priced, of value to some, and religion to others.

I appreciate quality. my threshold of quality vs. price is lower than some people's. not worth getting worked up over, but is why I LOVE finding used snap-on cheap.

the people that are the defenders of the faith: well I don't really get it. buy what you want but don't knock others who can find the same or nearly the same quality for exponentially less money--ESPECIALLY if you are not a professional tech...

OTOH, just because you choose NOT to spend your money on high quality tools (or status symbol cars, or whatever it may be) doesn't mean the guy that does is a *****...just different wants and needs and a different rating system for said wants and needs...pure and simple.

 

[pi_guy]

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time without anyone explaining the difference and sharing their experiences with both good and poor tools, people could easily get discouraged or even hurt. Sometimes I wish their were two sections to this forum, one for people who use tools and one for people who like a full toolbox they never actually use but love to justify, that last group would contain all the stuff I can do without on both ends of he cost spectrum.

But it gets pointless. I do what very few people do. Been using tools since the 60's. I have intentionally worked in numerous mechanical computer type jobs and picked up different skill sets. Have hung out with an interesting set of characters. Still do have a interesting dinner coming up tonight.
So my views and experiences are different than most spent a season living on the most expensive tract of land in the Hamptons as asst track manager.
When I put my point of view forth and get blasted for it, not worth the bother.

 

[iajonesy]

This topic never fails to amuse me. If a guy likes Snap On tools and can afford them,then by all means buy them. If on the other hand you are satisfied with Pittsburg the go for them. In my opinion,there is no right or wrong to this argument. Some guys make their living wrenching every day and need the higher quality,reliability,and convenience of truck brands while others get good results with tools that are less costly and not delivered to them.

I don't understand why this topic always degrades into "class warfare". Buy what you like and can afford and be done with it.I don't think any more of the S/O user or any less of the H/F tool user. Life is too short to argue about this ****.

By the way I used Craftsman tools for over 45 years and now that I'm retired I have purchased a lot of S/o tools and an Epiq roll cab just because it was what I always wanted.

Mike

 

[WittHay]

Snap-on is always going to be a debate. It's hard to get your point across to someone that has spent thousands on Snap-on tools, that your cheaper tools can get the job done also.

I think age and experience has something to with it also. When the new Snap-on you bought at 20 is starting to get worn out and less shiny at 40, you think maybe there are other alternatives to Snap-on for your next tool purchases

 

[intjonmiller]

That's true for most, but not all. My brother likely has a wing at Snap-On headquarters named after him for all he's spent with them in the last 2 or 3 decades, yet he also owns Harbor Freight stuff for the one-off or occasional tasks around the house and so forth. I have almost exclusively Harbor Freight automotive tools, and quality stuff in other departments (because when I need more than an oil change or brake pads I take my car to the guy with the lift and a Snap-On box the size of my truck). Spend (within reason) where it matters, save (within reason) where it doesn't.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

When I was on the line. Snap On ruled. Mac, Cornwell & Matco could never get a foot hold. So service from them was spotty. Yes, I paid more for Snap On. I also never had a tool the was not covered under "warranty". Now that I'm out and this is the second dealer after my time. I have things looked at real hard for warranty. I'm not spending $150-200 a week, so now my service is So-So. I'm guessing with the current dealer is more worried about the current customers VS the old ones. I'm OK with that. I just drop my broken stuff off at a buddies and he handles it for me. I buy him lunch and we both are happy.

Funny thing is. I have been out 17 years 7/1/17 and my tool box from 2/2000 is still larger than most local shop techs today.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[pi_guy]

Snap-on is always going to be a debate. It's hard to get your point across to someone that has spent thousands on Snap-on tools, that your cheaper tools can get the job done also.

Except if you happen to be the guy who gets the stuff that has been mangled by using the wrong tools, because he was too cheap to get the proper ones.

I have an example on my bench.

 

[yamaha0343]

Sometimes I wish their were two sections to this forum, one for people who use tools and one for people who like a full toolbox they never actually use but love to justify, that last group would contain all the stuff I can do without on both ends of he cost spectrum.

but true!

If we get a 'non-pristine' board I'm all in. That's where the knowledge will be.

 

[Kirkski]

I blame my Dad...

When I was very young I asked him who made the best tools, he said Snap-On... I never forgot it... funny thing, he has passed since and he didn't have one Snap-On tool in his assortment of tools..

I started wrenching part time in 1983 at a local shop and started buying Craftsman to get by with and they were fine. The S/O guy rolls in and tried to sell me a small box with a few tools for $1900 and I told him to get lost... After a while I succumbed to the call and started buying Snap-On... Mostly I got them at flea markets and such, I found if I paid cash I got a better deal off some dealers..

I don't buy many anymore, I have most all of what I need and much more. I'm glad I did it, and I have tried to tell my kids not to give these things away when I kick it...

Once in a while I get jonesing for a fix and I hit the truck...lol

Thats my story and Im sticking to it...

I think bottom line buy what you like... if you can pay cash.. Life is too short to be a snob and too long to be in debt...

 

[rambo19]

Is snap on better than brittool though..............
(runs and hides)

 

[Gmonkee]

It goes in phases. For a while I needed the gamut of tools into the big stuff and used a hodge-podge of everything bought at swaps.
And got the work out.

Then switched up to bling and sold off the used stuff. Later into auto work and sold off all the big stuff keeping more common stuff in duplicates.

Then sold off the the stuff in deep storage and bought some cheaper stuff for a road kit.

Now that road kit does it all because it has yet to fail in any way. And the bling is in storage awaiting a need.

It has been fun buying, using and testing all the brands within my reach and choosing favorites among them.
Many are good tools and some are still being made today. But not all were stellar and no place of origin nor brand excelled way above all the rest.
I hope everyone finds their fave brand and gets to enjoy it whether they beat it to death using it or just polishing the chrome.

Don't worry Sir Woody, everything comes to a balance in the end. You just have to wait out the highs and lows along the way.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I always knew Snappys worked well, now I know a little better why.

Thanks Woody

 

[bob15]

Very good question I found this out from one of are older GJ posts:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5798

Used on a wide range of sockets and the like:

http://datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=3273430&typeCode=0

So with the patent being that old it ran out a long time ago.

I am curious though with regards to the FD box end and the inventors.....how much if any did they base their design on, and then around the Bonney Loc-Rite box end design? It was 2 years earlier in patent granted. https://www.google.com/patents/US3125910

 

[zakmartin]

the whole snap-on thing to me is a lot like dyson vacuum's and bose speakers...good products, over-priced, of value to some, and religion to others.

YES, times a THOUSAND.

 

[T45]

I am curious though with regards to the FD box end and the inventors.....how much if any did they base their design on, and then around the Bonney Loc-Rite box end design? It was 2 years earlier in patent granted. https://www.google.com/patents/US3125910

see post#8, it quotes the prior art.

U.S. Patent nos. 2,445,905, 2,961,905, 3,079,819 and 3,125,910 along with three foreign patents are cited as relevant prior art.

 

[ToolHoarder]

Life is too short to be a snob and too long to be in debt...

Great Quote! I may need to make it my new tag line.

 

[WittHay]

Thanks Woody, for the info on the Flank Drive patent.

I have been fortunate to have owned Snap-on tools since I was a teenager. Now middle aged, I find myself trying other tool brands just for something different.

 

[Derek420]

Snap on is way over rated I own a **** ton of it but also have Mac ,cornwell, sk, William , Matco and wright and I think all are about the same socket wise and same goes for rest of hardline but ratchets are the difference sk ,wright, Williams at least but are strong and none will let you down a matter of fact it goes for all the brands I mentioned ,I think pro brand tools are all good. Snap on is not gods gift to tools but are just the most popular so you hear the much about them. I hear a lot of complaints about cornwell sockets with the retention hole but does anyone ever try them for strength no, they are tough as any snap on and the hole is nothing to ***** about, oh wow you can only put in on one way which takes half a second to line up.

 

[TheMadMech]

For me it's a practical and long-term thing. I can pay $X per week as a part of my budget and get whatever I need whenever I need it. Today I blew up my ¾" snap-on flank drive plus ratcheting wrench. Tomorrow I'll head over to my snap-on guys house and swap it out, all done then.

That said, the best mechanic in our shop uses almost entirely harbor freight stuff. It is what it is, people have their preferences and reasons for it. As long as it works for them and keeps them happy then it's all good.

Come to the Batch House, get your doughnut powdered.

 

[zendriver]

Maybe it's just the times.

Decades ago, I really could not afford SO (owned a ratchet & few socket sets though) and actually found three SO screwdrivers, one huge (almost new) one in the street, one left in my car by an inept mechanic and a stubby from somewhere.

These screwdrivers ruled, nothing really compared to them - at that time, in my world. Cman were "OK" and any screwdriver from China, would break in the first use. The SO handles were great and the tips held up. Not much else to ask from them.

Now, my $9 set of HF drivers, have comfortable handles and tips that hold up.

Not much else to ask from them.

 

[davethorik]

Maybe it's just the times.

Decades ago, I really could not afford SO (owned a ratchet & few socket sets though) and actually found three SO screwdrivers, one huge (almost new) one in the street, one left in my car by an inept mechanic and a stubby from somewhere.

These screwdrivers ruled, nothing really compared to them - at that time, in my world. Cman were "OK" and any screwdriver from China, would break in the first use. The SO handles were great and the tips held up. Not much else to ask from them.

Now, my $9 set of HF drivers, have comfortable handles and tips that hold up.

Not much else to ask from them.

And this has what to do with Snap-on's flank drive plus patent??

I swear to god just utter the magic words and people with no reading comprehension but plenty of worthless opinion just come out of the woodwork.

 

[zendriver]

And this has what to do with Snap-on's flank drive plus patent??

I swear to god just utter the magic words and people with no reading comprehension but plenty of worthless opinion just come out of the woodwork.

Good point.

The OP was looking for good stories and that was one.

My apologies.

 

[crewchief888]

times have changed...

there was a time when any tool made overseas was an absolute POS, that has changed. i get paid to pull wrenches, weld, diagnose, and beat on stuff with sledgehammers.
my truck brand & CM boxes dont seem to care where the tools came from, i have a little bit of everything, and a lot of some things.
i buy what works for me, sometimes nothing but truck/industrial brands, other times it's HF or big box store brands.

 

[engineer2]

Their mark up is quite high and depending on the product in question ranges from ridiculous to complete lunacy.

Quite true. We made a part for their Counselor engine analyzer back in the day. I think we sold it to them for maybe $150. They marked it up to $1000. They don't do this with everything though. Some of their products are competitively priced. They are supporting a huge dealer network and having staff to keep up with all the changes in automobile service every year is a huge investment.