Snap-on ratchet upgrades and mods

[Cdstahlman]

I know that you can upgrade some of the older 20 teeth ratchets to 30 or greater, but what I'm really looking to do is a dual 80 upgrade.

I know the internals are drastically different, but I'd like to see what it all entails to put a dual 80 gear set into say a older 71n or say other ratchet. Even if machine work, etc would be required.

Has anyone attempted this? Anyone have any input? I've touched base with snap mom and the suggestion to post to the forum was given.

Thanks,
Chris


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[97nismo]

Don't think this can be done at all...

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I don't think anyone has put the work in to do actually do it. Who knows, maybe someone could figure it out with all the precise measurements and a good amount of time and machining stills.

Personally I've rather see a fine tooth upgrade kit that fits into the 36T MAC ratchets. Love the look of the old hard handle MACs, just not the action.

 

[DTB]

Personally I've rather see a fine tooth upgrade kit that fits into the 36T MAC ratchets. Love the look of the old hard handle MACs, just not the action.

Quit giving MAC that much credit...30 tooth gear. lol. I too would like to see an upgrade for the 3 MAC ratchets that I've got.

As for the dual 80s, it would cost more money to try then what a used on on Ebay is worth...

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Quit giving MAC that much credit...30 tooth gear. lol. I too would like to see an upgrade for the 3 MAC ratchets that I've got.

My mistake (and why I don't own any)! I loved the feel in my hand when I used my old coworker's flex head hard handle, but the action was painful.

 

[Cdstahlman]

Quit giving MAC that much credit...30 tooth gear. lol. I too would like to see an upgrade for the 3 MAC ratchets that I've got.



As for the dual 80s, it would cost more money to try then what a used on on Ebay is worth...

That might be the case, but I have access to a machine shop as well as a large number of older 1/2 and 3/8 ratchets. I'd really like to give it a shot and create what I'd consider a
"Snap-on vintage line" to put into my older snap-on boxes.




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[331CID]

Anything can be done with time and money. The "proper" way to do this, I feel, would be to cut gears to fit the old head versus hacking up the ratchet. But what do I know, opinions are like...


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[bobcatdan]

I don't think you have enough meat to work with, the head shape is actually pretty different, especially in the pawl area.

 

[toddacimer]

You might be able to get a dual 80 3/8 drive gear into an older 1/2" drive ratchet or a 1/4" 72 tooth in a 3/8 body


Picture added for clarity thfl72, old 3/8 drive ferret ratchet, f80, sl710 1/2" drive

 

[ihateminimumwage]

You might be able to get a dual 80 3/8 drive gear into an older 1/2" drive ratchet or a 1/4" 72 tooth in a 3/8 body

Or if that comes anywhere near close, use one of the 3/8" drive in a 1/4" body kits, and work that into an older 3/8" body.

 

[sk farmer]

at the risk of sounding like an ***. where are these ideas coming from?

do you put the crankshaft shaft from a v8 into an inline four? how about a detroit diesel piston into a string trimmer? maybe a 13 speed truck ****** in a dirt bike?

i know those are a stretch but to assume that a ratchet head that is a completely different size, shape and tooth count will allow some other completely different parts to just fall in is ridiculous.

 

[331CID]

at the risk of sounding like an ***. where are these ideas coming from?

do you put the crankshaft shaft from a v8 into an inline four? how about a detroit diesel piston into a string trimmer? maybe a 13 speed truck ****** in a dirt bike?

i know those are a stretch but to assume that a ratchet head that is a completely different size, shape and tooth count will allow some other completely different parts to just fall in is ridiculous.

Just fall in? The first post says "even if machine work is required"


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[Brad54]

Everyone needs a hobby, I guess.
If you want the dual 80 internals, then why not just get a dual 80 ratchet?

Myself, I like the old Underlined Logo ratchet, and am happy to upgrade them with Quick Release or Fine Tooth.
Past that, I personally can't see the point.

-Brad

 

[rancherbill]

at the risk of sounding like an ***. where are these ideas coming from?

I agree, if it was that simple every mechanic would just buy an upgrade kit.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I looked into a custom ratchet build or two when I hadn't been on here too long. But a budget of close to $200 after parts and machining is pointless for a "don't need it" ratchet.

The Dual 80 isn't magic by any means. It's a solidly designed pear ratchet. You'll have more fun tearing down the various import brands and other cheap, late stuff like Kobalt for ideas until you find something that interchanges or can be accomplished via machining.

If you want something slick, find a relatively high-tooth count setup and maybe implement bearings and play with different pawl springs to fine tune the tighten & ratchet sides of the action.

at the risk of sounding like an ***. where are these ideas coming from?

This forum inspires them for some people.

 

[sk farmer]

I looked into a custom ratchet build or two when I hadn't been on here too long. But a budget of close to $200 after parts and machining is pointless for a "don't need it" ratchet.

The Dual 80 isn't magic by any means. It's a solidly designed pear ratchet. You'll have more fun tearing down the various import brands and other cheap, late stuff like Kobalt for ideas until you find something that interchanges or can be accomplished via machining.

If you want something slick, find a relatively high-tooth count setup and maybe implement bearings and play with different pawl springs to fine tune the tighten & ratchet sides of the action.

This forum inspires them for some people.

i guess it is ok for someone to dream, but i just don't get this infatuation with a dual 80. like you said, it isn't magic. if you want a dual 80, buy one. i would bet the best machinist would have one hell of a time making it work and at what cost? i have a dual 80 and honestly i have other ratchets i like much better. no disrespect if you have them and like them but trying to make everything be just like a dual 80 is ridiculous.

go buy an armstrong 88 tooth. you will have just as good of ratchet (imop), save money and not be like everybody else. if you like to play around, that ratchet is quite easy to modify. it shares common parts with many gearwrench, matco, armstrong, craftsman and other ratchets covering 60, 84, 88 and 120 teeth. that also gives you many handle size, shape, length and flex options. a ratchet you truly modify to make your own if you choose.

 

[jim1987]

No, not the 120xp. The 120xp will only fit in a 120xp. Its not even close to being the same design. Its thicker.

 

[sk farmer]

No, not the 120xp. The 120xp will only fit in a 120xp. Its not even close to being the same design. Its thicker.

i didn't think so either but on 5/20 member matcodave, a matco distributor says in post #19 of the "which 3/8 flex head?" topic that it is possible.

as far as not being close to the the same design? pretty sure it uses the same 60 tooth gear with a dual pawl to get 120 clicks.

 

[johninct]

Some days I use my Dual 80 and some days I use my Ferret.

 

[4x4gearhead]

I think that the cost of the machine work would end up being close to the price of just buying a dual 80 ratchet. If you do a 3/8" ratchet youll have to find the right face plate to run the screws into, as they go in oppositely from the 936/71/70. In my opinion I just dont get why you would want to.

 

[Cdstahlman]

Wow, I didn't really think this thread would get that out of hand so quickly. I had hoped for some fun input, and maybe some ideas.

As far as where these ideas come from, I simply thought it might be a neat idea. I don't feel a dual 80 is any more or less superior than any other ratchet. I just wanted to look into a project. Nothing more or less, and wanted to see if others thought about it, or had attempted it.

As far as assuming that parts would just interchange, I never made that assumption. Perhaps others should read more carefully before posting.

There are a lot of you on here that are overly critical and fast to squash the ideas, or dreams, of others, not just myself. I honestly could care less about your negativity. I'm here to support and assist others with their goals, not bash them regardless of how illogical or improbable.

Maybe some of you should consider this, "it's only impossible until it's possible".

If you can't contribute and want to be pessimistic, I feel bad for those that encounter you. Who knows what great inventions, ideas, cures, etc you've hindered or robbed the world of, simply because you just want to criticize.


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[Cdstahlman]

Btw, I own a rather vast collection of snap-on tools from modern dual 80, all the way back to a 1/2 no.7

I'm here because I like tools, it because I want them all to be dual 80. Geesh....


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[Cdstahlman]

Anything can be done with time and money. The "proper" way to do this, I feel, would be to cut gears to fit the old head versus hacking up the ratchet. But what do I know, opinions are like...


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This is probably the most logical solution assuming the pawl would work with the increase tooth count. However I would assume it would require a redesign as well.

Thanks


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[4x4gearhead]

Wow, I didn't really think this thread would get that out of hand so quickly. I had hoped for some fun input, and maybe some ideas.

As far as where these ideas come from, I simply thought it might be a neat idea. I don't feel a dual 80 is any more or less superior than any other ratchet. I just wanted to look into a project. Nothing more or less, and wanted to see if others thought about it, or had attempted it.

As far as assuming that parts would just interchange, I never made that assumption. Perhaps others should read more carefully before posting.

There are a lot of you on here that are overly critical and fast to squash the ideas, or dreams, of others, not just myself. I honestly could care less about your negativity. I'm here to support and assist others with their goals, not bash them regardless of how illogical or improbable.

Maybe some of you should consider this, "it's only impossible until it's possible".

If you can't contribute and want to be pessimistic, I feel bad for those that encounter you. Who knows what great inventions, ideas, cures, etc you've hindered or robbed the world of, simply because you just want to criticize.


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Wow, didnt realize you would have such thin skin about your dreams. Im sorry that I am a realist, and that you find things like common sense to be offensive. I made suggestions...and also voiced my opinion about this project. Just because someone somewhere has an idea doesnt make it a good one. I really dont mean to start **** but I believe you are being a little bit of a bleeding heart about it. I hope that if you want to make an old ratchet into a more modern one you succeed, but dont **** on others because YOU view their suggestions as "pessimistic".

 

[Cdstahlman]

Wow, didnt realize you would have such thin skin about your dreams. Im sorry that I am a realist, and that you find things like common sense to be offensive. I made suggestions...and also voiced my opinion about this project. Just because someone somewhere has an idea doesnt make it a good one. I really dont mean to start **** but I believe you are being a little bit of a bleeding heart about it. I hope that if you want to make an old ratchet into a more modern one you succeed, but dont **** on others because YOU view their suggestions as "pessimistic".

I wasn't really referring to your post, as much as the blatantly non informative ones that didn't do anything except criticize.

I haven't had me a good internet fight since the days of yahoo chat. How's it work now? Do we call each other various expletives still, send some random JPEG. **** pics, and then have cyber ***?

Sorry to offend you, or anyone. We're all entitled to our opinions. I was just hoping for more constructive responses, rather than "dat der is a dumb idear"


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[4x4gearhead]

I wasn't really referring to your post, as much as the blatantly non informative ones that didn't do anything except criticize.

I haven't had me a good internet fight since the days of yahoo chat. How's it work now? Do we call each other various expletives still, send some random JPEG. **** pics, and then have cyber ***?

Sorry to offend you, or anyone. We're all entitled to our opinions. I was just hoping for more constructive responses, rather than "dat der is a dumb idear"


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I hear you, I dont want to fight, just make my point. I am on here to share my ideas and passion for tools/wrenching/fab work and all that comes with that stuff. I have at times taken a break from this forum due to people jumping down everyone's throat at the drop of a hat. I dont mean to be like that. It's just I have come to find that I am sick of people trying to convince me that what I think is wrong just because it would be viewed as "negative". This happens at work at times with my bosses coming up with these ridiculous plans for projects that are a huge headache, and dont end up even making money. When I suggest the reality to some of these jobs or subjects, I am viewed as "that negative *******" just because they think that they have a gold idea that they havent thought through, and quite literally stand to make money off of it on MY back. I am just sick of the "You're being negative so you must be wrong" mindset. Thats all. I am a pretty open minded individual and I try to be, but I refuse to let anyone try to sway me into thinking something is the greatest idea ever when its just because they have something to gain/prove. Not saying this is what you were doing. but this is why I reacted. Like I said, I do hope you find a way to make your old ratchet into a fine tooth if thats what you really want to do.

Also for some comedic relief, I would like to add this meme I found.

 

[Cdstahlman]

Understood, thanks for your feedback, and once again, no offense.

To get the thread back on track...

If the dual 80 option is entirely unlikely without literally machining a new gear set, custom parts, or entirely new body...

THEN...

What gear set upgrades can be swapped into day a 71n or gs71, etc. to increase tooth count?

Any other common upgrades that are a direct drop in, or require minimal modification?

Perhaps at least we can gather that info, here for others to reference.

Or a link if it's already been done?

Thanks


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[4x4gearhead]

Understood, thanks for your feedback, and once again, no offense.

To get the thread back on track...

If the dual 80 option is entirely unlikely without literally machining a new gear set, custom parts, or entirely new body...

THEN...

What gear set upgrades can be swapped into day a 71n or gs71, etc. to increase tooth count?

Any other common upgrades that are a direct drop in, or require minimal modification?

Perhaps at least we can gather that info, here for others to reference.

Or a link if it's already been done?

Thanks


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I would bet that you could put the 30 tooth gear in the older 70 or 71, I think it would be a matter of having a kit for a 936 ratchet and seeing if the gear will fit in with the pawl. the 70s and 71's were 20 and 25 tooth i think? I have a few of each, Thinking of trying it because now Im curious.

 

[customh]

It seems like the new ones are smaller than the old ones, so could you take a full dual80 ratchet and machine it down and make an "insert" or "sleeve" to slip in the the old head and figure some way to hold it in with screws from the drive side?

 

[The Ratchet Man]

It seems like the new ones are smaller than the old ones, so could you take a full dual80 ratchet and machine it down and make an "insert" or "sleeve" to slip in the the old head and figure some way to hold it in with screws from the drive side?

I like this idea and think it will probably have the best results as far as ratcheting function goes since all the ratcheting mechanisms are already matched. An interference fit of the new head insude the old head would be a nice touch too. Pictures when your done.

 

[jeremy v]

I would like to hear if anyone is able to accomplish this and I would love to see pics of one of these finished, because it is a neat idea. It doesn't have to be a dual 80 either, because that seems to be one of the more complicated designs from an internal machining perspective. I don't think of it as being a detroit diesel piston stuffed into a weed trimmer, I think of it as putting a modern fuel injected engine, new front end, and disc brakes in a classic car. I love the look of vintage tools, and it would be neat to have some with better and more modern functionality. How is this any different than machining down a stock ratchet handle to accept a Snap-On hard handle? There are also lots of old ratchets with awesome patina on the outside. I could see this as being a great modification for an old ratchet passed down by a father etc., so the item remains usable instead of it just sitting in a box looking pretty.

I hope you don't get discouraged by the naysayers here, they are often the same people that start threads about a YouTube video showing a V8 powered margarita blender. Garagejournal is not a business that needs to make a profit. If all that mattered was economy of time/labor, and maximization of profit there are a lot of tools, custom cars, and neat projects that would never get made and/or posted on here, and if that happened it would be a shame.

 

[Givl Reggin]

I was just hoping for more constructive responses, rather than "dat der is a dumb idear"

I think many here were just trying to keep you from wasting your time.

When you can buy something already made, and most likely a higher quality than you can make, why not go that route?

 

[331CID]

It seems like the new ones are smaller than the old ones, so could you take a full dual80 ratchet and machine it down and make an "insert" or "sleeve" to slip in the the old head and figure some way to hold it in with screws from the drive side?

I like it! Good option! I could be wrong but I highly doubt there's a direct fit. I have a friend who is a machinist. If you're dead set serious about this, I could ask him the approximate cost to make something of the sort...


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