Correct. IMHO, (and it's JUST my opinion) paying over 40% of retail for S/O is a bad investment.
Snap On USA/marketing, we the techs, can do math...
- Thread starter Turbo-J
- Start date
Or..... OR, you could just git over yersef an' read some other posts/threads if'n ya don' like this'un. This IS a discussion forum after all!
Lt CHEG
Well-known member
I don't take what you're saying in a negative fashion at all. For the record, all but my specialty sockets are Craftsman and I've only managed to break 3 or 4 and I've used them (non impact sockets) with impact guns before without huge problems.
In reality though, labor is probably at least 10 times more expensive in the US than it is overseas. Not to mention I don't think that WI is a "right to work" state. I do feel that truck brand tools are often more expensive than they should be, but I would be willing to bet that the profit margins for the huge conglomerates that make Harbor Freight tools and other overseas brands have a higher profit margin than Snap On. I think it's all about finding the sweet spot with regards to what tools are worth the high price for you and what ones aren't.
Busted Bolts
Well-known member
I have been told by my local dealer that SO is in control from manufacturing, warehousing, distribution, and sales to the franchisee. They keep reselling to each of their channels till it gets to the tool truck dealer who in turn needs to make a profit with all that is *******, fuel, insurance, cost of doing bussiness. IMO the reason SO can give 50% discounts to student and Government is they come straight from manufacturing warehousing and to a the end user. No middleman (even though its them), so it reduces all the mark ups along the way. Its not the dealers fault. SO makes money all the way before the tech buys the tool. I am a long time SO user, and I know what I'm buying, and its my choice, even knowing SOME of the logistic details.
Telling people on a tool discussion forum to shut up is a bit inappropriate. It's rude and besides, if you don't like the discussions, you are not obligated to participate.
Thats no different than any business and when it comes to tools truck tools are unrivaled in cost so no, i dont buy that as an excuse. Its not a matter of a few tens we're talking about either, its hundreds of dollars. The only difference is the store is on wheels as opposed to being a brick and mortar operation. And SO doesnt [as far as i'm aware] incur any of the costs of running the truck [fuel, repairs, time wasted etc..], the franchise owner does.
The fact that SO is so in control of their operation should be a good thing for consumers from a cost perspective since they dont have to broker contracts with any third party companies.
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GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
Skin,
I hate to disagree with this statement but you are not raped on a tool truck. Everyone on this board knows the pricing before we step on the truck. If you don't like the truck prices, there are plenty of options for you. EBay and CL, the local paper and numerous web stores will sell you any number of fine tools. In addition the brick and mortar stores will sell you tools that will work.
I prefer the look and feel of Snap-on and some of Matco's tools. I don't mind the price, consider them a bargain for what they are, I enjoy using them and look forward to seeing my driver each week. Not to mention that we eat lunch together, go places together and I consider him a good friend.
Its no problem we're just worlds apart on that. Percieved value and real value are two very different things. To call the tools at retail a good "value" is just in no way correct anymore than calling a $60,000 car a good "value". You'd agree i'm sure you're paying a large premium. An unfortunate flipside to the coin is the fact that blue collar work often doesnt bring in the big bucks [depending on location and profession of course] and then it really bites you in the *** when retirement rolls around and that 60-100k or more you blew on truck tools is worth about 5-8.
I just dont see the up side.
Nobody is arguing quality here, certainly not me. My beef is more with price, and $350 for a basic set of sockets or wrenches, just as an indicator of what the rest of the catalog costs, is certainly extravagantly priced.
At least they started doing the buy 1 get 1 deals to mitigate it a little bit but its still too rich for my blood.
By the way i know a guy who runs an independant shop alone, first thing he did when he started out was bought a nice SO tool chest combo [used] and a retiring mechanics entire collection which was a bit of everything. All told i think it ran him about 5k. If there is any way to start thats it.
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GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
Skin,
The first thing that gets paid every month is my retirement. Then all of the bills (and with two daughters in college, there are a lot of bills), then my savings accounts for cars and other unknowns. What I spend on tools is what I have left over. I either buy guns or tools with my "mad money" and if you think Snap-on is expensive, try buying a nice shotgun.
I work on the families cars and that includes nieces, the daughters, sister and all of their boyfriends as well as both of our parents. I don't wrench for a living anymore but have kept up with the business since the early 70's when I started at dad's garage. My tools are a "want" not a "need" and are a different priority level than your choices.
Are they high priced? Of course. Life is a series of choices that all of us make. I prefer the tools that I buy and don't mind paying the price. That doesn't make me any less different than others on here. I don't own any music other than the 10 songs my daughter put on her hand me down iPod that she gave me. I don't have (or want) a fancy phone (mine makes phone calls, imagine that...), I don't own any golf clubs, go to any games or a multitude of other things that some consider a "must have". I have my family, my tools and my guns. I am content with my life.
The first thing that gets paid every month is my retirement. Then all of the bills (and with two daughters in college, there are a lot of bills), then my savings accounts for cars and other unknowns. What I spend on tools is what I have left over. I either buy guns or tools with my "mad money" and if you think Snap-on is expensive, try buying a nice shotgun.
I work on the families cars and that includes nieces, the daughters, sister and all of their boyfriends as well as both of our parents. I don't wrench for a living anymore but have kept up with the business since the early 70's when I started at dad's garage. My tools are a "want" not a "need" and are a different priority level than your choices.
Are they high priced? Of course. Life is a series of choices that all of us make. I prefer the tools that I buy and don't mind paying the price. That doesn't make me any less different than others on here. I don't own any music other than the 10 songs my daughter put on her hand me down iPod that she gave me. I don't have (or want) a fancy phone (mine makes phone calls, imagine that...), I don't own any golf clubs, go to any games or a multitude of other things that some consider a "must have". I have my family, my tools and my guns. I am content with my life.
expatriated
Well-known member
Amen, brother
My buddies ask me why I spend so much for tools. We ALL spend a lot on something. I choose to spend it on things that I can actually use and will be around for my grandkids. Most of my buddies spend it on what I would consider temporal stuff that brings some fun but gets all used up and tossed--electronic toys and gadgets, the latest light laptop, phone, parties, whatever.
They criticize me for spending $100 on a ratchet and they'll gladly spend $100 on a bottle of booze
Lt CHEG
Well-known member
I can certainly understand both sides of the argument. There is no question that Snap On, Mac and Matco are very expensive tools. There is also no question that they are of excellent quality, with excellent service. Jobs in general just aren't paying what they used to, heck at 31 my generation will be the first to not exceed the previous generation in purchasing power. I blame that on a lot of factors, most particularly the entitlement mentality that has overtaken our country, but I don't mean to go off on a tangent. On the other side of the coin the average Joe is also lucky now in that they have more choices for quality tools. There wasn't a Harbor Freight like we know it now in the 1970's, nor were there other tool companies producing the variety of quality tools that we are accustomed to nowadays at the low cost that we are used to paying for them. The good news is that the tools that the average mechanic uses all the time, and makes his money with, he can splurge on Snap On, Mac, Matco, etc. and he'll be able to appreciate the extra quality and features. However for the tools that don't get used as much, there are reasonable alternatives that cost so much less that you can use. So I think we are actually in pretty decent times with respect to tools and choices. And for that matter everything is getting more expensive nowadays. I'm also a gun collector like a lot of other folks here and a watch collector too. I think the cheapest gun I've bought in the last 3 or 4 years was a Benelli M4 shotgun on sale for about $1400. Quality stuff just keeps going up and up. For that matter the Rolex Submariner 2 tone that I bought for $7,000 a few years ago goes for about $11,000 now. I see the limited amount of Snap On tools that I have in a similar light to my nice watches and nice guns. They're functional luxuries that I'm fortunate enough to be able to do more than just look at.
honcho
Well-known member
Snap On Financials for the first quarter of their fiscal 2011 (ended in January)
Q1 (Jan '11)
Net profit margin 8.45%
Operating margin 13.90%
EBITD margin - 15.43%
Return on average assets 6.57%
Return on average equity 16.77%
Employees 11,000
Snap On margins appear reasonably healthy at the corporate level but there are companies with much higher profit margins--especially software companies since they don't have to maintain big factories nor deal with energy and commodity prices.
Snap On is the Apple of the tool world (at least in the USA) or is Apple the Snap On of the tech world.
In business school, they teach you to price a product at the highest level you can deliver value to the customer. Lots of people find value in Snap On both at a tangible "get the job done" level and at a intangible "it's the right brand tool for me" level. There are Snap On loyalists that will argue that a Snap On product is superior even if it's the exact same product, made on the same production line, by the same people but carrying a different label. To those loyalists, it is a superior product and no use arguing with them unless they are spending your money!
However, since most professional techs are spending THEIR money, they can do whatever they want. If they run their personal finances like a business (their finances ARE a business) they might make decisions that would have them buying different tools at different price points to get the job done in a manner that generates the most income by maximizing their output and minimizing their expenses. Lots of techs do this intuitively but the shiney Snap On chrome sure is pretty!
Happy President's Day
Q1 (Jan '11)
Net profit margin 8.45%
Operating margin 13.90%
EBITD margin - 15.43%
Return on average assets 6.57%
Return on average equity 16.77%
Employees 11,000
Snap On margins appear reasonably healthy at the corporate level but there are companies with much higher profit margins--especially software companies since they don't have to maintain big factories nor deal with energy and commodity prices.
Snap On is the Apple of the tool world (at least in the USA) or is Apple the Snap On of the tech world.
In business school, they teach you to price a product at the highest level you can deliver value to the customer. Lots of people find value in Snap On both at a tangible "get the job done" level and at a intangible "it's the right brand tool for me" level. There are Snap On loyalists that will argue that a Snap On product is superior even if it's the exact same product, made on the same production line, by the same people but carrying a different label. To those loyalists, it is a superior product and no use arguing with them unless they are spending your money!
However, since most professional techs are spending THEIR money, they can do whatever they want. If they run their personal finances like a business (their finances ARE a business) they might make decisions that would have them buying different tools at different price points to get the job done in a manner that generates the most income by maximizing their output and minimizing their expenses. Lots of techs do this intuitively but the shiney Snap On chrome sure is pretty!
Happy President's Day
I've got a KRL 1000 absolutely stuffed full of snap on tools. I bought them in the early
mid 80's - early 90's when I had my own service station. I know it sounds korny..but they are an extention of me. I've taken that box full of tools to Oklahoma and back. They now sit proudly in my shop out back of my house and I still use them a lot. I would not sell or trade them for anything.
Now...having said that...if I were starting all over again...I don't know that I would spend that amount of money on Snap on again.
mid 80's - early 90's when I had my own service station. I know it sounds korny..but they are an extention of me. I've taken that box full of tools to Oklahoma and back. They now sit proudly in my shop out back of my house and I still use them a lot. I would not sell or trade them for anything.
Now...having said that...if I were starting all over again...I don't know that I would spend that amount of money on Snap on again.
bmwohio
Well-known member
Chad,
How do I get signed up to receive the 'hot tools' each month? Is there a link I can sign up at, or do it through you?
Thanks!
wornoutoldman
Well-known member
If you want to buy new Snap on tools on the cheap contact your community college (or check em online) if they offer any automotive courses most will have the student discount from SO. Enroll for a class and buy all the tools you want at 50% savings. The class shouldn't be too expensive and you can choose to go or not.
sberry
Banned
When you are out front or at least want to be perceived this way it only comes with the territory that you get some bashing. There are some well thought out posts in this thread, some good numbers, some varied perspectives. As was pointed out if a guy wants to buy the truck stuff all great.
Personally I have been on a truck about 3 times in 30 yrs, there is just too much used stuff or conveniently on the shelves anymore at really commodity pricing or marginal sales pricing on brand items to want to pay more than I need.
BTW, this discussion generally revolves around hard common hand tools. Lots of us have a long perspective and some experience in what pays, rate of return and some other fundamental numbers about purchasing (even some mfg here). I bought a lot of Sears here but that was 30 yrs ago. Its been fair, mostly sockets been an issue but all in all its done its job and allowed big sets at good cost. These days we add additional tools, all kinds and tend to ponder more over large purchase/quality items. If I go quality I usually go brand, vise Grip, Channelok, Klein, etc. Usually on sale.
Having said that I have bought a fair share of import in last few yrs. with some careful shopping its unreal cheap and generally good.
Some things do not work, nothing beats a good set of linemans or diagonals, cheap work fine for a little while but not for continuous cutting hard wire. Same with strippers, use them so much fit, feel, all that is an issue.
But,, I think one could come up with a factual number argument for the most profitable tools in the world are 1 $ screwdrivers and small combination wrenches from China.
Personally I have been on a truck about 3 times in 30 yrs, there is just too much used stuff or conveniently on the shelves anymore at really commodity pricing or marginal sales pricing on brand items to want to pay more than I need.
BTW, this discussion generally revolves around hard common hand tools. Lots of us have a long perspective and some experience in what pays, rate of return and some other fundamental numbers about purchasing (even some mfg here). I bought a lot of Sears here but that was 30 yrs ago. Its been fair, mostly sockets been an issue but all in all its done its job and allowed big sets at good cost. These days we add additional tools, all kinds and tend to ponder more over large purchase/quality items. If I go quality I usually go brand, vise Grip, Channelok, Klein, etc. Usually on sale.
Having said that I have bought a fair share of import in last few yrs. with some careful shopping its unreal cheap and generally good.
Some things do not work, nothing beats a good set of linemans or diagonals, cheap work fine for a little while but not for continuous cutting hard wire. Same with strippers, use them so much fit, feel, all that is an issue.
But,, I think one could come up with a factual number argument for the most profitable tools in the world are 1 $ screwdrivers and small combination wrenches from China.
84bimmer
Well-known member
$600 1/4" set? I believe it. But I'm not stupid enough to pay for it. Then again, those little fasteners are real high torque applications! For $600 those must be super strong sockets! C'mon this is horse ****. I need this set like a bullet in the head. I've never broke a 1/4" socket or extension, never came close. They're getting away with murder.
84bimmer
Well-known member
Yeah here it is. Make sure you grab your ankles as your pulling out your credit card. Might wanna chew some gum too, this ones gonna hurt dummy. My SO guy doesn't even have the common courtesy to give me a reach around while he rapes me in the *** and steals my sons college fund. I asked him why it doesn't come with a 4" extension. He said not to worry that he was gonna throw in a 10 incher!
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...6&group_ID=101&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Maybe those sockets are .999 fine silver?
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...6&group_ID=101&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
Maybe those sockets are .999 fine silver?
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johnsdeere850j
Well-known member
LOL ^^^^ you are one of the few who have it figured out
GeorgiaHybrid
Well-known member
If you have such a hard on about Snap-on, why are you getting on the truck? Is the driver holding a gun to your head? Does he have pictures of you with a goat? Is he your son-in-law?
Like I said before, if you willingly get on the truck, drop your drawers and bend over, don't ***** when it hurts. You could always squirt some KY in your *** before you visit him though, that should make things easier....
Drive to Harbor Freight or Sears and buy your tools there. I wouldn't use a credit card like you mentioned though. Cash is king...
84bimmer
Well-known member
You nailed it!
All of the above. Goat, gun, family. GOAT! 
Kentucky ****.
I understand the need for fine tools. I really do, I have many. Yes, all truck tools are overpriced and over glorified. But I've rarely paid full price for a truck brand tool. I use student discounts or buy used. I don't have much of a problem with SO. I'm sure I could find more rather easily, but for now, my beef lies with that damn 1/4" set! You know damn good and well, that this set is complete overkill. I can understand spending good money on intermediate sockets, as they are harder to find. But a general 1/4" socket set, does not ever need to be better than a $70 Craftsman set.........
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00934270000P?prdNo=4
For $600, a resourceful person (like most of us here) could scrounge up a quality version of every single 1/4" drive tool he would ever need. If you are breaking these sockets, then you have other problems. I wouldn't pay more than $150 for that SO set ($100 w/o the ratchet) brand new. It is just not needed. If you own this set, I believe you have $450+ of scrap metal.
Some of us think we have to have the best, and the best must be the most expensive! Similar thinking occurs in our ghettos. And people are murdered for $200 sneakers. While morons that can't feed their children drive caddies. I see a lot of techs that I go to school with in some serious debt from these tools. Most of these guys making around $8/hr. Some have children (where's the decency), can't pay rent, and move back in with family. Most of these guys don't even take advantage of the student discount. Surely because they have no money/credit, but they say they have a relationship with their SO/MAC/MATCO guy and he "gives me a good deal".
I've been told by all the dealers, "your SD price is cheaper than I pay for them". My uncle sold MAC, he typically paid 70% of retail to stock his truck. No way any business man sells something for less than 10% profit. NO WAY! Even if your dealer is a "great guy", it's feast or famine in the jungle baby. It seems 90%+ of businesses/people these days are CUT-THROAT. I've got my own back. Does he have yours? Yeah, most of us have been bent over the dash or fender of a tool truck. I don't mean to offend anyone, really I aim to encourage. But many seem to love the taste of corporate c$$k. Pull it out, they're not doing you any favors.
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You nailed it!
Kentucky ****.
I understand the need for fine tools. I really do, I have many. Yes, all truck tools are overpriced and over glorified. But I've rarely paid full price for a truck brand tool. I use student discounts or buy used. I don't have much of a problem with SO. I'm sure I could find more rather easily, but for now, my beef lies with that damn 1/4" set! You know damn good and well, that this set is complete overkill. I can understand spending good money on intermediate sockets, as they are harder to find. But a general 1/4" socket set, does not ever need to be better than a $70 Craftsman set.........
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00934270000P?prdNo=4
For $600, a resourceful person (like most of us here) could scrounge up a quality version of every single 1/4" drive tool he would ever need. If you are breaking these sockets, then you have other problems. I wouldn't pay more than $150 for that SO set ($100 w/o the ratchet) brand new. It is just not needed. If you own this set, I believe you have $450+ of scrap metal.
Some of us think we have to have the best, and the best must be the most expensive! Similar thinking occurs in our ghettos. And people are murdered for $200 sneakers. While morons that can't feed their children drive caddies. I see a lot of techs that I go to school with in some serious debt from these tools. Most of these guys making around $8/hr. Some have children (where's the decency), can't pay rent, and move back in with family. Most of these guys don't even take advantage of the student discount. Surely because they have no money/credit, but they say they have a relationship with their SO/MAC/MATCO guy and he "gives me a good deal".
I've been told by all the dealers, "your SD price is cheaper than I pay for them". My uncle sold MAC, he typically paid 70% of retail to stock his truck. No way any business man sells something for less than 10% profit. NO WAY! Even if your dealer is a "great guy", it's feast or famine in the jungle baby. It seems 90%+ of businesses/people these days are CUT-THROAT. I've got my own back. Does he have yours? Yeah, most of us have been bent over the dash or fender of a tool truck. I don't mean to offend anyone, really I aim to encourage. But many seem to love the taste of corporate c$$k. Pull it out, they're not doing you any favors.
Dude, you have some serious issues. You obviously have anger issues about the way other people spend their money. You also seem to exhibit some homophobic tendencies and you also seem to be obsessed with ****** performed with tools. You should seriously consider seeking professional help because you are one sick....
84bimmer
Well-known member
This one probably can't get enough of the taste.
Busted Bolts
Well-known member
I'll offer the help for oh $30 bucks a week for 62 weeks
Vinko
Well-known member
This is a good point. Was just discussing my SO dealer today on the truck who's been selling stuff since the 70's about "real wages" for workers being in a steady decline since this period.
The fact that someone can get tools from so many more places these days, in a much more accessible fashion, has got to be putting a dent in the trucks I imagine.
Vinko
Well-known member
I believe there is some truth to this. I think SO as a company knows this and I'm sure they've been putting into place alternative infrastructures.
I will believe that for "small business" (which is what a shop or mechanic is), that the truck's a useful (and I hope viable) model.
Vinko
Well-known member
The truck wouldn't "finance" you with "Zero" interest? How much did you buy that you had to use the SO Credit Account?
Vinko
Well-known member
I'm not sure that I entirely disagree but I'd be curious if anyone wanted to make the opposite argument: that Williams' distribution network is different than SO, hence the lower price. Seems like there are quite a few "hands" in the SO tool getting from Wisconsin to the trucks. Everyone's taking their percentage.
Also: I don't know if it's true or not that Williams is the same. Is it? Are they using the same raw materials for a socket that SO is? Any other raw material differences?
Vinko
Well-known member
Why do I get the feeling you that, despite the discomfort, you like it? Hell, you probably look forward to it every week.
Rickochet
Well-known member
I have given the young bucks the same advice on here and on more than one occasion. As we become wiser, it becomes more clear why you don't see many "old" techs wrenching. The headaches are horrible, the pay can be little, the hours long and the tools very expensive!
So I once again repeat: When you begin your career as a professional wrench, spend your hard earned money wisely on tools that will work well at a much better price. Buy only the really nice Snap On Tools for the highly specialized or the extremely rugged use items.
And yes, I have Snap On Tool boxes full of expensive Snap On Tools that now only get used when I am wrenching on my own equipment in my home shop. I often pick up one of my mega dollar tools and think: "I could be retired by now if I had only bought Craftsman and invested the extra money in stock....." If only someone would have told me this when I was 20.........
smalltruck
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 333
Damn straight skippy this is good advice. I bought the cheap MTC brand impact sockets for 25 bucks a rail. I replaced the 3/4, 15/16, 1&1/8 with good ones as well as the 3/8 drive deep 9/16, 15, 16, 13 mm. The price difference between a truck brand and all the sets I bought is huge. The biggest difference is the wrenches. If you are doing this for a living get the good ones.
First, Snap-on is a very well-cultivated brand, like Starbucks. My old-school dad shakes his head when he hears people can spend $5 for a cup of coffee. It's totally insane from his standpoint.
Second, a man's tools are his identity. It's the same way with bass boats, 4x4s, restored cars, hunting rifles, golf clubs and wild animal wall mountings. It's about our identity. We build ****, we create **** and we fix ****. All of this **** requires tools.
You can spend $500 on a fancy graphite driver. Does that make you play like Tiger Woods? Not really, but it can make you a better player and make you feel better about your time spent swinging it.
Professional quality goods are expensive for a reason. So is Starbucks coffee. So are Colt rifles. We pay what we pay because we see value. It's that simple.
Second, a man's tools are his identity. It's the same way with bass boats, 4x4s, restored cars, hunting rifles, golf clubs and wild animal wall mountings. It's about our identity. We build ****, we create **** and we fix ****. All of this **** requires tools.
You can spend $500 on a fancy graphite driver. Does that make you play like Tiger Woods? Not really, but it can make you a better player and make you feel better about your time spent swinging it.
Professional quality goods are expensive for a reason. So is Starbucks coffee. So are Colt rifles. We pay what we pay because we see value. It's that simple.
petty4243
Well-known member
after reading 72 posts here i decided one thing.... the whole thread got diverted from origional posters intended direction, he was pointing out the it was supposed to be a "sale" or "promo" special.... and in reality the hotdeal prices are rarley much of a sale to really make it worth the spontanious buy off the truck..... we all know they are expensive and most of us want the most bang for our buck.... would just be nice to actually see some real promos prices for a change.... might actually get us to purchase more off the ttruck and support the tools we love in the long run
just my experience, i can almost always beat the price by ordering snap on tools direct from snap on online than from buying it from a tool dude.
plus good tool dudes that actually can run a business and know tools at the same time are getting harder to come across.
seems like they have to special order anything thats not a common tool anyways, might as well just have ups bring it to you rather than to them.
plus good tool dudes that actually can run a business and know tools at the same time are getting harder to come across.
seems like they have to special order anything thats not a common tool anyways, might as well just have ups bring it to you rather than to them.
Vinko
Well-known member
I think you've brought up some really good ideas, but I see them the opposite from you:
I'd agree that $5 is relatively insane for a cup of coffee, but I'm not sure the analogy is really apt: because we've always had good tools in this country, but we always haven't had good coffee. The majority of coffee available to the general public was **** before startbucks, unless you count certain little sections of cities where they had good coffee shops.
I think the notion of identifying yourself with a brand has only increased exponentially in the past 20-30 years. There has been branding for a long time, but not like the assault we've seen in the near past. So I'm not sure I'm convinced that you can draw a continuum from any point in the past to now: whereas before good tools were good tools, but I don't think brands necessarily carried the weight they carry today.
I'd agree that $5 is relatively insane for a cup of coffee, but I'm not sure the analogy is really apt: because we've always had good tools in this country, but we always haven't had good coffee. The majority of coffee available to the general public was **** before startbucks, unless you count certain little sections of cities where they had good coffee shops.
I think the notion of identifying yourself with a brand has only increased exponentially in the past 20-30 years. There has been branding for a long time, but not like the assault we've seen in the near past. So I'm not sure I'm convinced that you can draw a continuum from any point in the past to now: whereas before good tools were good tools, but I don't think brands necessarily carried the weight they carry today.
creativecars
Well-known member
Wow, Tech’s who can do math, afford SnapOn tools and Starbucks coffee. No wonder it cost $100.00 to change plugs. LOL
The funny thing is I worked with an old guy that worked on HD trucks out of his old Craftsman box, with a mix of all tool brands, and sipped on the same cup of coffee for 3 hours.
BTW. He could figure all flatrate and his pay after taxes without a calculator.
The funny thing is I worked with an old guy that worked on HD trucks out of his old Craftsman box, with a mix of all tool brands, and sipped on the same cup of coffee for 3 hours.
BTW. He could figure all flatrate and his pay after taxes without a calculator.
Toolhorder
Well-known member
This thread went into the typical "I'm not a pro tech and SO is expensive" and "I'm a pro tech and they're worth it" arguement.
I wish guys would STFU if they don't think it's worth it. I'm glad you have a horde of inferior tools and you paid less for them. Awesome now let's move on.
I wish guys would STFU if they don't think it's worth it. I'm glad you have a horde of inferior tools and you paid less for them. Awesome now let's move on.
creativecars
Well-known member
Exactly, and your jiberish has what to do with the OP comments???
For me and many others, Starbucks is mediocre coffee compared to Petes and other boutique brands. They are fast and consistent but they never make claims about their quality and taste. Ever notice that? Personally, I think the coffee at McDonalds lately is superior and they have a $1 any size promotion to boot.
Branding is high science in MBA marketing courses now. It wasn't 35 years ago. The value of a brand was probably first recognized by KKR when they bought Nabisco Brands in 1985 in the largest mega-leveraged buyout at the time. Nabisco Brands? Heck, that much money for Oreos? Everyone shook their head. It turned out to be extremely profitable for KKR.
Branding is high science in MBA marketing courses now. It wasn't 35 years ago. The value of a brand was probably first recognized by KKR when they bought Nabisco Brands in 1985 in the largest mega-leveraged buyout at the time. Nabisco Brands? Heck, that much money for Oreos? Everyone shook their head. It turned out to be extremely profitable for KKR.
Vinko
Well-known member
I'm not sure that you're really replying to my post directly, but:
Yes, agreed. I like Peet's a lot. Though I've never tried McD's coffee (haven't been to a McDonald's since I was a kid). My point is (and was) that Starbucks saturated the market -- almost everywhere -- and recalling what "coffee" was in the US before Starbucks (with the exceptions I already noted), they raised the bar. At least for expectations of what coffee could be. I'd also say that compared to the canned **** like Folgers and Yuban that people used to drink (and I suppose still do), Starbucks was and is far superior.
That said, if you grew up in New York or another big city with Italian (and other) immigrants, you knew what a good coffee could be way before Starbucks. But I don't think you could argue that the majority of Americans had this experience.
This is my point. Though I wouldn't call marketing a science - let alone a high science, if by high science you mean something like the "hard sciences," such as bio., chem, etc. I might be willing to think of it as an "soft" science like sociology, anthropology, or even econ.