Snap-On vs Ingersol Rand

[TheMadMech]

I was talking to my dealer about the Blue Point and Snap-On air tools.

The Blue Point stuff is IR made while the SO stuff is made by them.

My question is which is actually better in rough dirty environments?

I'm Glass House mechanic. I work in sand and soda ash all day every day. I know IR is the "industry standard" but how does the SO stuff compare?

Also, if there is a different brand that I'm not familiar with which is better let me know as well.

Thanks

 

[gdocktor3]

Snap On impacts are expensive, expensive to fix, and not very impressive when you consider cost to power ratio compared to other brands. I'd go with IR, Chicago Pneumatic or another industrial brand like that. At the same time, a lot of mechanics have great luck with the cheaper brands like Astro Pneumatic, Aircat and even Harbor Freight Earthquakes. I'm thinking a cheaper unit like the Aircat or HF might be better as they are basically the AK47's of air tools. Not a whole lot of intricate moving parts, they're cheap and take an absolute beaten. Bottom line, don't spend the money on a truck brand...

 

[md21722]

Dealers do not always give accurate information. I have never heard Blue Point is rebranded IR. The COO doesn't seem to reflect it either. Many of the Blue Points are Taiwan and Japan, so you figure folks like Kuani or SP Air may be making them as a private label brand for Snap On. IR that is not production grade is typically China these days. Some guys swear by IR and some don't have any of their products. I don't think for your application it matters, air tools should be getting a supply of clean, dry air and they exhaust it out. It's not like an electric where dust is sucked in or blown out of the tool.

 

[echerbst]

Blue point is not rebranded Ingersoll stuff. I would never waste the money on snap on air tools when better choices are out there, and I have 100k worth of snap on ****. I have almost all IR air tools for past 20 years. I don't use them nearly as much as I once did now that cordless tools are so good. I would get the IR 1/2 or aircat. Those are the two best for the money.

 

[TheMadMech]

I'm looking for the most powerful 1/2" drive impact gun I can find. I used Grainger for comparing information and for comparison checked the dewalt cordless because it's what I've been using.

DeWalt 18V cordless

Ingersol Rand Titanium

Chicago Pneumatic

Snap-On Super Duty

Aircat Nitrocat

Harbor Freight Earthquake

Mind you, I wouldn't be buying from Grainger and my Snap-On guy never charges list price either, so for now don't compare price, just functionality.

As mentioned, I need the strongest I can find and am limited by air input, therefore the 1/2" is the largest gun I can run.

According to spec sheets listed here the Snap-On is a bit stronger than the IR. The Aircat and HF both claim to be stronger but it seems dubious to me that the "cheap" brands are making claims which go so much beyond the name brands. That said, I don't actually have experience first hand with any of them. Does this sound correct to you guys?

 

[ChrisLS8]

The Aircat is a gun as are the TiMax. The HF has videos proving it puts out as much power as it claims.

You can't really go wrong with any of them

 

[Skin]

I like Snap-On air tools but the MG725 ergonomics are pretty poor which is its biggest detractor. They still build a very robust tools but they have some issues with trigger valve failures.

IR is balanced a bit better but the 2235 is pretty bulky. I cant say they make the most powerful but they do have a fantastic support network and I've always liked the controls.

The CP looks built really well from the diagrams, similar to Snap-On. Sealed oil bath hammer assembly with wear plates on both ends of the rotor plus a washer to prevent hammer pins wearing into the front plate. Its using a steel hammer housing though and is both long and heavy for a modern impact.

I'd also suggest looking at Matco IR lookalikes. I recently took one of their PTP impacts apart and its built pretty well. Probably the best trigger control I've used and its among the hardest hitting.

 

[flushcut]

Milwaukee m18 Fuel High Torque Impact if air supply is limited.

 

[md21722]

Its hard to compare some of these numbers because manufacturers quote max breakaway, working torque, etc.

As far as I know, the IR 2235, Aircat, and Matco MT2769 are the most powerful you can buy. I believe both the Aircat and Matco are Made by PTP. They are Made in Taiwan.

The HF Earthquake XT has been bench tested to perform at the same level as the Snap On MG725. These two guns are generally 20% less powerful than the IR2235/Nitrocat 1250.

 

[bcradio]

IR 2235 would be a top pick for me, but I agree if you will be working in a harsh environment then get a HF or similar.

 

[md21722]

IR 2235 would be a top pick for me, but I agree if you will be working in a harsh environment then get a HF or similar.

Well, to some extent the opposite is true. The better built tools tend to last longer in a harsher environment, then you send it out for repair which can be cheaper than buying a new one. I met a guy that built those big rolling irrigation systems for a living. He said his IR was good one for new build, but the Snap On was good for two before he sent it in, and I believe the Snap On was cheaper to rebuild as well....

 

[bdelmar2]

2 snap on 725s in the shop, both of the owners have to borrow my 2235 regularly, nearly daily, because theirs won't pull something or another.

The hf 3/8 earthquake I gave away did not impress me. It was strong enough, just had awful control - I gave it to someone else who had the same gun fail on them less than a month after they bought it.

Don't know about the aircat stuff, I've seen it on the truck, but it hasn't been around very long, at least not compared to IR.

Even in harsh environments the IR does pretty well. I know a guy who runs a big tank cleaning company, hazardous/corrosive materials, etc... and they also do a lot of work in the gypsum mines.

Pretty rough working environment for air tools.

He brought me about a 55 gallon barrel or so of old impacts, mostly IR 3/4", but some 1/2" and other odd air tools, with a few other brands, but mainly IR.

Most of the tools were so badly corroded they were locked up solid and I had to beat the couple I rebuilt apart - I did 2 IR 3/4" guns with $60 rebuild kits and they worked like new afterwards.

I decided submerging them in transmission fluid for a couple weeks would possibly make them easier to get apart.

Fortunately they hired a new mechanic who didn't have a lot to do so they took the rest back. I was happy because I didn't really have the time or desire to mess with them anyway. I will have to remember to ask how they turned out next time I see him.

Oh, they also tended to get hooked up to the blasting pressure lines quite a lot I guess, and those are like 600-750 psi if I recall correctly, several times the pressure an air tool should ever see in any case.

So if anybody knows of another besides IR you can buy, let random employees abuse horribly while exposing to highly corrosive environments until it stops working even when beaten upon, then throw it in a barrel for a year or two, then hammer it apart and rebuild it good as new for $60ish I would be willing to consider trying that brand.

Edit: worth noting the IRs were several years old before they failed, as were a couple CP, the other off brands didn't look that old although there were only a couple of those as the company generally wont buy anything but IR as they fail right away.

 

[Skin]

The HF Earthquake XT has been bench tested to perform at the same level as the Snap On MG725. These two guns are generally 20% less powerful than the IR2235/Nitrocat 1250.

MG725 did have the muffler installed. Without it the number would of been about 1100 or roughly 100 foot pounds higher than the XT. 2235 and 1250k both came in at around 1200 foot pounds in Dan's testing which isn't 20%, its more like 8-10%. Granted he used an extended anvil 2235 so a normal one should be a bit higher but probably not another 10%.

There is no standardized testing for impacts so you simply cannot compare paper sheets of one brand vs another without knowing what tests were run. Dan's tests are good because if he keeps the same methods there is a standard there but unfortunately he hasn't tested them all. Just as an example even though the 2235 paper specs are more impressive than an MT2769 (and the 2235 has a beefier anvil and hammers) i'd swear the latter Matco hits harder (perhaps higher motor output?).


Also with that big number its just cumulative torque which says nothing about things like torque per blow or working torque. Ergonomics and control should also be a big part of it as well. I'd happily sacrifice a little torque for a more balanced, lighter impact.

 

[Marlin]

I'm looking for the most powerful 1/2" drive impact gun I can find. I used Grainger for comparing information and for comparison checked the dewalt cordless because it's what I've been using.

DeWalt 18V cordless

Ingersol Rand Titanium

Chicago Pneumatic

Snap-On Super Duty

Aircat Nitrocat

Harbor Freight Earthquake

Mind you, I wouldn't be buying from Grainger and my Snap-On guy never charges list price either, so for now don't compare price, just functionality.

As mentioned, I need the strongest I can find and am limited by air input, therefore the 1/2" is the largest gun I can run.

According to spec sheets listed here the Snap-On is a bit stronger than the IR. The Aircat and HF both claim to be stronger but it seems dubious to me that the "cheap" brands are making claims which go so much beyond the name brands. That said, I don't actually have experience first hand with any of them. Does this sound correct to you guys?

Current "most powerful is the Matco MT2769.

 

[Marlin]

I was talking to my dealer about the Blue Point and Snap-On air tools.

The Blue Point stuff is IR made while the SO stuff is made by them.

My question is which is actually better in rough dirty environments?

I'm Glass House mechanic. I work in sand and soda ash all day every day. I know IR is the "industry standard" but how does the SO stuff compare?

Also, if there is a different brand that I'm not familiar with which is better let me know as well.

Thanks

Your dealer is misinformed, IR doesn't make the Bluepoint line.

 

[johninct]

Your dealer is misinformed, IR doesn't make the Bluepoint line.

I don't know if IR still makes the Blue Point impact wrenches but I bought a brand new Blue Point ( IR 231) on Ebay including shipping for like $35 because they called it a Blue Point and not IR.

 

[oldtools]

When it come to air tools, SO is extremely over rated. IR is alot better for alot less money. My MG325 just die last night without getting much use out of it. It will be my last SO air tool. Now I am in the market for a 3/8 impact wrench and will likely be an IR.

 

[Roberts210]

2 snap on 725s in the shop, both of the owners have to borrow my 2235 regularly, nearly daily, because theirs won't pull something or another.

The hf 3/8 earthquake I gave away did not impress me. It was strong enough, just had awful control - I gave it to someone else who had the same gun fail on them less than a month after they bought it.

Don't know about the aircat stuff, I've seen it on the truck, but it hasn't been around very long, at least not compared to IR.

Even in harsh environments the IR does pretty well. I know a guy who runs a big tank cleaning company, hazardous/corrosive materials, etc... and they also do a lot of work in the gypsum mines.

Pretty rough working environment for air tools.

He brought me about a 55 gallon barrel or so of old impacts, mostly IR 3/4", but some 1/2" and other odd air tools, with a few other brands, but mainly IR.

Most of the tools were so badly corroded they were locked up solid and I had to beat the couple I rebuilt apart - I did 2 IR 3/4" guns with $60 rebuild kits and they worked like new afterwards.

I decided submerging them in transmission fluid for a couple weeks would possibly make them easier to get apart.

Fortunately they hired a new mechanic who didn't have a lot to do so they took the rest back. I was happy because I didn't really have the time or desire to mess with them anyway. I will have to remember to ask how they turned out next time I see him.

Oh, they also tended to get hooked up to the blasting pressure lines quite a lot I guess, and those are like 600-750 psi if I recall correctly, several times the pressure an air tool should ever see in any case.

So if anybody knows of another besides IR you can buy, let random employees abuse horribly while exposing to highly corrosive environments until it stops working even when beaten upon, then throw it in a barrel for a year or two, then hammer it apart and rebuild it good as new for $60ish I would be willing to consider trying that brand.

Edit: worth noting the IRs were several years old before they failed, as were a couple CP, the other off brands didn't look that old although there were only a couple of those as the company generally wont buy anything but IR as they fail right away.

Gotta respect straight talk from a man who has EXPERIENCE.

 

[DetroitDIESEL444]

I have a used them both in a professional setting.IR impacts are my choice. Snap on air tools in general have been disappointments, and getting them rebuilt by snap on is expensive. Never had an IR rebuilt, but replaced a few 231's that had the hell beat out of them.

 

[Jim Diesel]

I am also a professional, for both my 1/2 & 3/4 pneumatic impact needs i run IR. When it comes to 3/8th or air ratchets i am happy to use cheaper brands .

Can't go wrong with IR.

 

[Skin]

Gotta respect straight talk from a man who has EXPERIENCE.

Nothing personal to him but that's not experience, its hearsay. Hooking an air tool up to 600-700PSI? I promise it wont work and its a good way to get very hurt.

 

[stikman56]

Blue point is not rebranded Ingersoll stuff. I would never waste the money on snap on air tools when better choices are out there, and I have 100k worth of snap on ****. I have almost all IR air tools for past 20 years. I don't use them nearly as much as I once did now that cordless tools are so good. I would get the IR 1/2 or aircat. Those are the two best for the money.

Not entirely true, Blue Point has an impacts that are made by IR, the At123 and AT321 are IR's.
Myself, I wouldn't buy a Snap On impact for any price. I think the Blue Point At560 is pretty good,but you can get the same thing with AC Delco branded on it right now for 55 bucks on ebay,and yeah it's new too. I've had great performance from Nitrocat's when it comes to impacts.
IR air tools as a whole are very good tools,but for impacts, not my first choice for a couple reasons,they're under-built in a couple areas IMO, and I've seen too much breakage. There's exceptions of course, the 2131 is real good, the 2145 is excellent. I wouldn't spend a lot if you're using them in a bad environment,dirt is dirt, sand is sand,it'll wear on any of it.

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

I originally used a Snap On, but once I tried IR I was hooked. My friend has newer Snap On 1/2" impact and we ran into a few bolts that it wouldn't get off while doing a transmission at my house. I got the IR out and it zipped the bolts right out. The SO, just isn't impressive. It also doesn't seem to hold up nearly as well.

That said, I generally love SO and I have a ton of it, but the only air tool that I've used from SO that's impressed me at all is their PH3050 air hammer. The rest of them are pretty lousy imo.

 

[HandToolGuy]

For the DeWalt cordless you need to look at the new 20v DCF899P2. 700 ft lbs

http://www.dewalt.com/en-us/product...t-wrench-w-detent-pin-anvil-kit-50ah/dcf899p2