Hi, my first post and first off I want to thank you guys for such a great Forum. It's amazing the collective knowledge and experience on this board and how helpful everyone is. Now for the question...I'm looking for a screwdriver set; I've been reading the Williams are exactly like the SO Hard Handle (Which I like allot), but I've also read a few posts saying the Williams P2 (my most often used) doesn't fit screws too well, and yet I haven't seen that complaint about the SO drivers. Am I missing something?
Snap On vs. Williams
- Thread starter Guzzi
- Start date
Zrexxer
Well-known member
I bought a set of the Williams hard handles for my road box, and while the handles do seem identical to the SO, I was less than thrilled with the working ends. The P2 especially on mine was poorly ground and none of the straight tips were that well formed either.
They were cheap enough and since they're just for occasional use with the tools I keep in the truck I didn't worry about it too much, but my opinion is that appearances to the contrary, they're definitely NOT "the same as Snap On."
They were cheap enough and since they're just for occasional use with the tools I keep in the truck I didn't worry about it too much, but my opinion is that appearances to the contrary, they're definitely NOT "the same as Snap On."
ibedayank
Well-known member
Williams and SNAP-ON are owned by the same company JH Willams Tool Group
http://www.jhwilliamstoolgroup.com/Content/17.htm
READ THIS.... anymore questions???
http://www.jhwilliamstoolgroup.com/Content/17.htm
READ THIS.... anymore questions???
HandyManny
Well-known member
Not exactly. Might want to research that. Williams is the North American division of Bahco. Bahco is a European subsidiary of Snap-On. Basically Snap-On is the parent company to both. That Snap-On Incorporated at the botton is not stating that JH Williams owns them, it more or less being signed by Snap-On. Think of it as Snap-On signing their name to the JH Williams Tool Group.
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ibedayank
Well-known member
ok ...
snapon inc
owns
snap-on/industurial
which in turns owns
JH williams Tool Group
wich in turn owns...
Williams hand tools, CDI torque products, Bahco, ATI specialty aviation and aerospace tools, Sioux Tools, power and air tools, and Lindstrom precision hand tools.
snapon inc
owns
snap-on/industurial
which in turns owns
JH williams Tool Group
wich in turn owns...
Williams hand tools, CDI torque products, Bahco, ATI specialty aviation and aerospace tools, Sioux Tools, power and air tools, and Lindstrom precision hand tools.
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Zrexxer
Well-known member
Yeah, I have a question... what does that advertising blather have to do with whether the screwdrivers are of the same quality?
Oh, and by the way, that statement is completely wrong, Snap-On is not owned by the JH WIlliams Tool Group.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Unless Snap-On has dissolved or liquidated, it says nothing. Snap-On Incorporated is basically signing their name to the statement on the JH Williams page. Snap-On is the parent company.
Pro-Painter
Well-known member
I would say they are made in the same place by the same company, However, I believe the Williams have less quality control.
I say order them and if your unhappy return them until you are happy. Williams is very good with warranty repairs.
I say order them and if your unhappy return them until you are happy. Williams is very good with warranty repairs.
ibedayank
Well-known member
am i right ?? seems that Bahco And Williams are sold in stores but Not snap-on branded tools. Also at cheaper prices it seems.
http://www.tooltrolley.co.uk/
http://www.tooltrolley.co.uk/
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
I really like the USA Williams tools. The screwdrivers while look almost Identical arn't quite up to Snap-On standards. The USA ratchets are excellant as well as the USA wrenches. If you want one of the best values in screwdrivers look into Wera. The Willians Screwdrivers are good but I would compare them to Craftsman Pro as far as the blade goes. Still good just not up to Snap-On standards
Thanks for the feedback. Looking at Pro Painters photos, the drivers seem identical. So why do people report fitment problems with the Williams (P2 specifically), and not SO P2, thats my main point of confusion. Any theories on the Phillips head??
cj610
Well-known member
They're not quite the old hard handles. The fit & finish isn't to the same level but they're good screwdrivers for the money and it's close to the old SO stuff.
03silvergt
Well-known member
Just because one owns the other, or the tools are made by the same manufacture, doesnt mean they are them same. I'm sure Snap-On has different specs for its tools than Williams. They may look the same, but im sure they are made of different material, steel specs, ect.
There are only two or three battery manufacturers in the USA but there are tons of different brand name batteries, same goes with antifreeze only two or three manufactures. The difference is whats inside the batteries, what additives are in the antifreeze, each company has certain specs. Same with tools.
There are only two or three battery manufacturers in the USA but there are tons of different brand name batteries, same goes with antifreeze only two or three manufactures. The difference is whats inside the batteries, what additives are in the antifreeze, each company has certain specs. Same with tools.
HandyManny
Well-known member
Being that Williams has a long history as a high quality industrial tool, and they still do, plus the fact that some SO and Williams are the same products - what makes you think quality would not be equal?? I fail to believe Snap-On or Williams would settle for anything less. This isn't exactly like comparing companies who make different products to differing specs for various companies or brands they do not own. Totally different comparison.
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03silvergt
Well-known member
I never said they weren't the same quality, i said they are probably made to different specs, diff steel specs, etc. Snap-On isn't going to compete with itself by making Williams tools the exact same as Snap-On and selling them for less.
Scout Driver
Well-known member
My Williams screwdrivers have been top-notch. The #2 phillips will hold a screw upright, inverted etc... The fit is excellent.
Scott
Scott
03silvergt
Well-known member
Look at the tips and the shanks on the screwdrivers pictured above they are different. The Williams tip actually looks like it would hold a screw better
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Scout Driver
Well-known member
The tips on mine look like the Williams pictured. They do a great job of holding.
Scott
03silvergt
Well-known member
Just because they look exactly the same doesn't mean they are made of the same material.
Almost all Allen Wrenches look the same, but I guarantee they are made of different compounds.
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03silvergt
Well-known member
Have you tested the metal compounds? All steel isn't the same
justanengineer
Well-known member
When I get my tools moved from NY (hopefully over Easter wkend!!
)Ill have to see if I still have my little portable Rockwell hardness tester just for you guys and do a comparison. Not 100% sure myself either way, but I suspect youd be surprised how similar they are.They even have identical stampings, same packaging. It's like the blue point and import Williams ratchets, they are the same, just look at the two ratchets, I don't need to test the metal to tell that they are the same product (crazy handle design). Do you own both sets of allens? Or are you just hell bent on them not being the same? Either way I'll agree to disagree
03silvergt
Well-known member
I have no doubt they are very similar, but I do not think they are EXACTLY the same compound . I might be wrong and if I am I have no problem admitting it. I'm not hell bent on them being different, I'm just saying because they look identical doesn't mean they are. You ever seen fake coins, some of them look exactly like real ones. I'm not trying to get into a ******* contest, I can agree to disagree. And like I said earlier I might be wrong.
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im with you, coke and coke zero may look the same from print to packaging but they are not the same.
HandyManny
Well-known member
I don't know for sure with SO or Williams either way. I'm just saying from what I know of other companies I'm just saying you'd be surprised. Just think about brands like GMC, Cadillac, and Chevrolet, for example. Besides the trim level and luxury options, what's really the difference between their pick-up trucks and SUVs?
HandyManny
Well-known member
Do you think it's cost effective for a company offering the same products under two different brands to use differing material? In many cases it's much more cost effective to use the same components and the same manufacturing process for simplification and charge two differing prices in the end. Not saying Snap-On does this, but knowing what I know about the manufacturing industry, especially where it comes to saving money and being cost effective, lot's of companies do this all the time. Most customers never know the difference.
03silvergt
Well-known member
I don't know either way HandyManny. I know its not good business to compete with yourself. Just look at what it did to GM. If they are making the EXACT same tool for SO and Williams, and if it ever comes out they are carbon copies of one another it will be bad news for SO
HandyManny
Well-known member
I'm not sure either. I don't think most Snap-On customers and users would even care if something like that were to come out. Snap-On has such a cult following that they can almost do no wrong in the eyes of these blind followers. Like it or hate it, lot's of campanies do this. It's so common I doubt anyone would blink if it were exposed.
03silvergt
Well-known member
You are probably right. If I knew I could get the exact same tool that SO makes except it says Williams on it for a lot less cash, I would have a box full of Williams tools and probably wouldn't by another SO tool.
Pro-Painter
Well-known member
It is not reasonable to believe they have two manufacturing process for the same tool.
I believe this is just one of them "you pay for the name" moments. Except, I don't believe Snap-on spends the extra time doing close quality control with the Williams drivers like they do with the Snap-on's.
maybe they use the shafts that don't pass Snap-on's quality control standards.... I'm sure with a company like snap on many tool parts fail quality control inspection that are still good quality, usable tools.
Here is some Williams orange hard handle's.
I believe this is just one of them "you pay for the name" moments. Except, I don't believe Snap-on spends the extra time doing close quality control with the Williams drivers like they do with the Snap-on's.
maybe they use the shafts that don't pass Snap-on's quality control standards.... I'm sure with a company like snap on many tool parts fail quality control inspection that are still good quality, usable tools.
Here is some Williams orange hard handle's.
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I have been absolutely blown away by my new addition of williams wrenches (usa) I know we are discussing screwdrivers but these wrenches supposedly come off the same line as snap on.
I have a feeling that they come off the same line and you are paying for the name.
I have a feeling that they come off the same line and you are paying for the name.
ibedayank
Well-known member
I have not found a place here in the Nashville area i can buy Williams hand tools. And i can not find a online site in the USA. Where i was able to order from that showed prices but you can order from Snap-on's site without any trouble.
Could it be possible that the tools that dont meet Snap-on's high standards but are still higher quality get branded Williams instead of meeting the scrap bin?
Could it be possible that the tools that dont meet Snap-on's high standards but are still higher quality get branded Williams instead of meeting the scrap bin?
ibedayank
Well-known member
Allen is a APEX TOOL GROUP company this i find hard to believe!!!
unless something has changed snap-on combo wrenches are broached on the open end as well to give them teeth. I believe Williams are just the old tried and true style.
"Allen" is synonymous to hex keys for a lot of people because Allen was one of the first companies to make Hex Key sets which they trademarked as Allen key. Same as asking for "Kleenex" which again is a well known brand of tissue.
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