Snap-On, Will they take tools back?

[1grnlwn]

I have failed as a father. My son came through the door last night with a brand new 1/2" impact driver. He is close to graduating from the John Deer mechanic program and is working full time at the dealership. Thing is he already bought a driver at his last discount tool buy. He already owes me $2000 and I have already had a talk about buying things when you owe people money. My philosophy is if you don't have the money you don't buy it. It has worked quite well thru-out the years. I guess it goes without saying that since he is now 20 that I am not smart enough to extricate myself from a wet paper bag. So last night I just listened to him after I gave him the WTF look. His reasoning follows:
1. The deal was cheaper than if I bought it at the student 55% tool purchase.
2. When mine needs rebuilt I will have this one to use.
3. When I have my own shop I will have a second one.
4. 6 months same as cash only $20 /month
5. Salesman is a great guy and wouldn't lie.
I plan on talking to him about this tonight but as calm as I try to be , it won't go well. My thoughts so far:
1. You bought something you didn't need with money you don't have.
2. Salesman might take a loss (not really) to get you use to paying monthly payment for the rest of your career.
3. That is X number of dollars you won't have at next tool buy for something you might really need.
4. The only people who have told me how great a business man I am and what a great property I have have been salesman. Hmmm

What am I missing?

 

[uniballer]

He's 20, he has to take it back. They might not take it back, and if he applied for credit, it not in his hands but creditors.

 

[Boxheadmr]

I would make him take it back himself but with you there as well. I wouldnt take it back for him.

typing with fat fingers on a little keypad on my phone

 

[slowzuki]

Unless he's living at home its really up to him. If its brand new and and bought at a good deal he should probably sell it for a bit of a gain and pay you back. Snap-on loves to get guys into making those monthly payments.

 

[Ohio Auto]

You're asking for opinions...here goes.

He's 20, treat him like it. If he was 10, no problem making him take his bike back to the store that he over spent on. Making him take a purchase back makes you look like a control freak.

Natural consequence is the best way to let young people like your son learn. Just make him honor whatever repayment schedule you have with him, the 20 bucks a month comes out of HIS disposable income.

When my son was in college he learned some painful lessons because he made a few poor financial choices and I didn't bail him out. He learned NOT to keep making poor choices like that because he had to eat the fruit of those choices. Me trying to control the situation to make it work out the way I thought it should go would have caused him to resent me.

He's a man trying to find his own identity apart from you, let him make some choices..even if it's not what you would do. That's how they learn.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

He is working, is he paying bills? Rent, insurance, vehicle, anything? Maybe you need to stop paying for some of the other stuff and let him figure out how to manage his income. Don't make this about a tool. Encourage him to pay it off ASAP.

 

[1grnlwn]

He does live at home. I will not try to force him to take it back but I don't feel I can just be silent. He is a very hard worker and a good kid and it is hard to watch him do stupid things. Could be worse , I know.

 

[woodrail]

And just my opinion, you have a son that is working at what sound like a good job, he probably has goals, and is about to graduate.

You did not fail as a dad. I wish more fathers did the job you did. The world would be a better place.

 

[1grnlwn]

And just my opinion, you have a son that is working at what sound like a good job, he probably has goals, and is about to graduate.

You did not fail as a dad. I wish more fathers did the job you did. The world would be a better place.

Just checking, Are you a tool salesman? Just kidding. Well I must admit I live in a glass mansion when it comes to buying things that I didn't "NEED" but I have never borrowed money to do it. It is my pet peeve of society. Loans are for Cars and Houses, Period.

 

[Bearkat]

I see where he didn't need it but a deal is hard for most of us to pass up. In fact, what model impact- I might give him the $120 and he can pay off his debt . All that said, you have a son who is about to graduate with a career path picked- you both did well IMHO.

 

[rburke65]

I havent any children, so.....I think at 20 yo, let him go dad.....he's doing ok....working....let him fly. You have done all you can at this point....and you've done well. He'll be fine. He will learn.

 

[METALMOVER]

I dont know about Illinois but in the state of Nebraska you have a 3 day right to recision IF the vendor comes to your home. I dont know about to your work or school, but I would think so. I also agree with you on borrowing money, unless it is at 0% or really low rate. I also beleive if your not making a few mistakes your not trying hard enough, just dont make them again.Sit down with him and teach him the powers of compound interest. Show him your home amitorzation, a $1000 credit card bill at 15% interest with only the minimums being paid and how much is paid out, and also if he invests a $1000 and gets a 7% return and lets it sits from now till he retires. Good luck, and Im glad its tools hes buying and not dope. Good luck. METALMOVER

 

[Todd.Brock]

Which impact did he get for 120 bucks from Snappy brand new? Maybe it was impulse. Maybe he will not use it and regret he bought it. Probably could sell it for 120 bucks at some point on CL.

I know you say you failed, I disagree. I think it's a kid being 20 with line of sight to a few bucks (job). I agree that you should force the money for your loan, hell up the payments by 20 bucks. But he can find 20 bucks a month out of his disposable income. Keep doing what your doing to help protect his credit.

 

[warmpancakes]

the impact was more than 120. he has 6 months same as cash, and Minimum payment is 20.00 per month, ODDS are contract is through snap on EC 20 a month for 2 years at 19% interest. so the impact was 480 Plus tax and interest

 

[Hpozzuoli]

If it was financed it can't be returned typically.....but if his rep is a good guy he can take the item back and issue a credit against the loan. Then the rep actually has the debt until he can sell the item. If its a new item he won't have trouble selling at a higher price to a non student customer. It's basically the same as paying your loan when the truck comes, only now the driver will pay for your son, take the tool, and re sell it. Not all drivers will do this. Some are dirt bags and just want the sales. Some actually care and value their customers. The drivers hit now will be meaningless over the life of the relationship and thousands more that will be spent.

 

[srmofo]

As long as he is honoring the terms of your agreement (paying you back), don't worry about it. Hopefully he will grow weary of making payments especially on stuff he doesn't need or use frequently.

If not, well I have friends like that. They're fine

 

[John in OH]

You're asking for opinions...here goes.

He's 20, treat him like it. If he was 10, no problem making him take his bike back to the store that he over spent on. Making him take a purchase back makes you look like a control freak.

Natural consequence is the best way to let young people like your son learn. Just make him honor whatever repayment schedule you have with him, the 20 bucks a month comes out of HIS disposable income.

When my son was in college he learned some painful lessons because he made a few poor financial choices and I didn't bail him out. He learned NOT to keep making poor choices like that because he had to eat the fruit of those choices. Me trying to control the situation to make it work out the way I thought it should go would have caused him to resent me.

He's a man trying to find his own identity apart from you, let him make some choices..even if it's not what you would do. That's how they learn.

+1 If the issue of buying a few tools that he can't afford is the biggest problem that you have with your son, then consider yourself a very lucky man! This is a small potatoes problem compared to some of the **** kids get into.

At this age, he needs to learn his lessons himself, but let him know he's making a mistake and you are not pleased. Then let it go, and let the natural progression of no money take its course. But, be there for him so he doesn't fall too hard! After a few months of coming up cash-short, he should get the message.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

1. For a tech that makes a living with his tools, having duplicates of high usage tools readily available is a good plan. He will not be lacking an impact driver IF the first one breaks down.
2. The "IF" word in that statement is the catch.....
3. The money part IS an issue that IS being underplayed on his part.

Things can be a bit cloudy at times... When the cards are laid on the table; two out of three should win.

I have sided with his thoughts and actions way too many times.
I Agree with your money policy and thoughts.
20 years old or 60; we will still (hopefully) learn something every day.
There are a bunch of us that could do a better job of balancing the scale when it comes to wants and needs. Me included....I shouldn't be preaching, but just share my screw-ups.. If people take note; they can learn from other people's screw-ups. ..

 

[Deception]

your son sounds like an angel compared to what I was doing at 20 years old

 

[rpm1]

when i was 18 years old i was working at a car dealership as a car washer, i also was in school for the auto tech program. one day i walked on to the snap on truck listed to the salesman talk and walked off the truck wit two wrench sets and a screw driver set. i was so excited to show my dad what i bought i walked in the house showed him my new awesome tools and he went off on me... the following week i walked my scalded a$$ back on the truck and gave them back. now fast forward i have owned my auto shop for 18 years have the same tools as i returned that day. my dad was right in saying wait until you get a job, that you can make money to pay for those high dollar tools.but also know that when being a professional technician you still need to buy things that you dont necessarly have the money for at the time of purchase some of that stuff is expensive very expensive. but as far as you being a bad dad,not true your just being realistic

 

[evildky]

He is 20, you are done nursing him. You can give him your opinion but ultimately it's up to him. It's up to him to make his decisions, and he won't always make the right ones. It's no longer your job to make his decisions or to bail him out when he makes the wrong one. Fly bird fly!

 

[1grnlwn]

I realized the Irony in the shower this morning. It was literally yesterday that my dad was here checking on the progress of my dream shop. He was also bringing me some perfectly good Smurf that he found in the trash. LOL While he was here I took him to the shop to show him my new Stronghand welding table and clamping system. He guessed the price at 1/4 of what it really cost. I would imagine today he is wondering where he went wrong. Self awareness is the hardest thing to master.

 

[Garage Customz]

You don't need to educate him on tool buying (like others have said at least he was buying tools and not dope), you need to educate him on how money works.

The best advice I ever received about money was this: Your money is a tool, you can either have it work for you or work against you. How this applies to this situation is, he owes $ to Snap-On, they can now use that against him in the form of interest. This plays right into your thought that you don't buy when with money you don't have, great advice but I would modify this to say you don't buy if you can't payback without the interest and loan fee's killing you.

6 months same as cash is a trap. $20 a month for 6 months is just a way to trick a kid like your son into forgetting that the balance at $20 a month won't be paid off. Tell him if it is $480 he needs to be paying $80 per month. Buy him some Dave Ramsey books and let him understand how money and credit work.

 

[johninct]

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe he is actually going to need that impact to do his job when he finishes the program. You said he has two, maybe the other is a different size drive. What impact did he buy and what impact does he already have?

 

[wornoutoldman]

As a father with a similiar aged son I think your talk is a good idea. It will make you feel better although it is likely to fall on deaf ears.

The good news? Your son isn't spending $20 a week on dope or booze.

 

[jimindm]

I think some of us forget that we were 20 once. There is a lot of other things he could have bought that are much more than that impact.

I am in my mid 40s. Today its easy for me to say I pay off my credit cards when I get the bill. Its easy to say I do not do things or buy things that I can not afford to write check for. Its easy, because I can do it now, not so when I was young.

Its a good philosophy, but in practicality, its hard to do when young. Do not let the world pass him by. We all have spent now and paid later. It is not just on high dollar items like cars and houses.

Some times people can not see the forest, because of the trees. Reading between the lines here, I think the OP maybe a little upset that he is owed $2k, and the son is out racking up more debt. OP your statement of he works hard, sticks out.

Think about what you really are upset about. Cut the kid some slack. It does not sound as if you failed, in any way as a parent. It also does not sound like he has failed you as a son.

 

[1grnlwn]

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe he is actually going to need that impact to do his job when he finishes the program. You said he has two, maybe the other is a different size drive. What impact did he buy and what impact does he already have?

No, not taken the wrong way. But it is exactly the same one he got 6 mo ago. I got one too! My first one was CH and have had it for 20 years it is a little tired.

 

[elav]

My kids are younger so I could be way off base but I think the only way you can influence him is by example. Share with him the success you have had living below your means. Not to be nosy, but what are the terms you setup with him to have him repay the money he owes you?

 

[StevePgh]

If you are concerned about his financial education (which is very much lacking in schools today), here are a few suggestions. As Garage Customz suggested, The Dave Ramsey radio show is a good one (I don't agree with his approach completely of paying off smallest debt first instead of the largest interest debt, but agree that people that are not as dedicated or number-aware have a larger probability of success this way). Bruce Williams is another radio program, but financial issues are just a part of his advice show. I'm sure one of them are on in your market or you can get them online.

Going into debt for a duplicate 'backup' tool (especially when there is a primary tool or two he doesn't know he needs yet) is something easy to find fault with. The dangle of a really good discount is hard to pass up. Most contracts have a period of time that they can be voided - hopefully this is the case here and he considers it a lesson learned.

As for financial education - it is so much more important these days because almost no employer has any form of pension or retirement nor loyalty to employees. I have no faith in the Social Security system. You need to assure your own retirement and financial future. Push him to set up a Roth IRA when he gets his first job. Some quick numbers: invest $1k per year ($85/month) starting at age 20 = $300k tax free at age 65 on a rather conservative 7% average return. If you can get 12% average return that same investment = $1.5 million. Wait until just age 30 to start investing and you'd need to invest $2k a year to get the same $300k@7%, but you'd only get $1 million at 12%. For some reason, investing my money this way looks more attractive than paying for the tool plus interest on a tool I'm not even using...

I wish I had learned this lesson long before I did. Hopefully your son can learn from this.

 

[Playwme]

You say he owes you $2g? That means you gave him credit before the snap on guy did, except that the credit he gets from Dad doesn't really have any nasty consequences.
He needs this Snap-on debt now, so that he understands how it works and that you can't just pay it back when it's convenient. Sure, he'll make a few mistakes and loose a little money, but best he does it with a $500 tool that holds its value than a $35000 truck that depreciates like crazy.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

Sounds like you have a hard working son who has a sense of direction and purpose in life. We were all young and dumb once, so cut him some slack.

He could be wasting his money on booze, dope, hookers, and maybe knocking up a gal or two at that age....

You did fine and he will be fine.

 

[NUTTSGT]

As a father with a similiar aged son I think your talk is a good idea. It will make you feel better although it is likely to fall on deaf ears.

The good news? Your son isn't spending $20 a week on dope or booze.

Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears, a few years I had a talk with the oldest daughter after going round and round with her. I told her I wasn't trying to be an *** but I didn't want her to make the same mistakes we did when we were her age. She did her time of learning stuff the hard and this time it sunk in. A short time later, she bought a two year old car on her own with no co-signer. Recently, her and her fiancee just bought a house, by themselves and are getting married this fall.

To say that I am very proud of her would be selling her short, it damn near brings tears to my eyes to see how she has matured in the last couple of years.

Sit down with your son and have a heart to heart talk. When it comes to the financial part of the talk, break out the pencil and paper if you need to. Don't scold him but try to make him learn. As far as the tool goes, make him pay for it and let him go without his extra cash and work out a payment schedule to get your monies back. If it includes a portion of his tax refund, then so be it.


Good luck and I'd be glad he's out working/learning a trade and not living jobless in the basement, being a drug addict or alcoholic.

 

[espyking83]

Nobody should be opening a credit line with Snap On while still in school. Nobody.

 

[Kevin54]

Without reading every response, all I can say is this.......talk to them in a calm voice, and tell the YOUR opinion. At 20 years old, they will either listen, or they will fail. When they fail, then they have to pick their self up. That is the way they learn. As a parent, you only want the best for them, but in another way, you want to control them and make sure they don't make mistakes. Controlling, and telling then what to do, only goes so far.

Let them learn the consequences when they don't listen, and learn how to deal with those consequences.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think people missed the part where his son owes him money. I know he's your kid, but if you had an agreement that he would pay you back I think you need to stress that. Don't lose or damage his relationship with you, but he needs to pay you back.

Let him know how you feel but at 20 he is his own consumer and has his own ideas. Can't do much parenting and nurturing now, it's up to nature.

 

[RVDan]

That's $480 he should spend on hookers and blow.

Seriously, if he had spent it on Harbour Freight junk I'd be concerned. Financing a quality tool that he will have for the rest of his life, congratulate him on a wise decision.

Yes they will let you return it, but you're being ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[blown94conv]

I am glad I had to learn some lessons the hard way. I made quite a few mistakes when I was younger, and paid more then my fair share of "Stupid tax".

And, in hindsight, I am glad I learned those lessons. But I had to learn them first hand.

 

[SweetD]

He'll be OK, just don't enable him from this point forward with regard to finances. Let him feel the pain of unwise investments (and the pleasure of reasonable ones!)



Dave

 

[coljar]

Would the $2000 he owes you be for his education?

 

[nicksnothereman]

I have failed as a father. My son came through the door last night with a brand new 1/2" impact driver. He is close to graduating from the John Deer mechanic program and is working full time at the dealership. Thing is he already bought a driver at his last discount tool buy. He already owes me $2000 and I have already had a talk about buying things when you owe people money. My philosophy is if you don't have the money you don't buy it. It has worked quite well thru-out the years. I guess it goes without saying that since he is now 20 that I am not smart enough to extricate myself from a wet paper bag. So last night I just listened to him after I gave him the WTF look. His reasoning follows:
1. The deal was cheaper than if I bought it at the student 55% tool purchase.
2. When mine needs rebuilt I will have this one to use.
3. When I have my own shop I will have a second one.
4. 6 months same as cash only $20 /month
5. Salesman is a great guy and wouldn't lie.
I plan on talking to him about this tonight but as calm as I try to be , it won't go well. My thoughts so far:
1. You bought something you didn't need with money you don't have.
2. Salesman might take a loss (not really) to get you use to paying monthly payment for the rest of your career.
3. That is X number of dollars you won't have at next tool buy for something you might really need.
4. The only people who have told me how great a business man I am and what a great property I have have been salesman. Hmmm

What am I missing?

Doesn't hurt to ask but I'm going to say no. Could pay it off immediately to prevent the interest though unless it's some sort of predatory contract.