Snapped off a bolt head today

[Rory Bellows]

Try some Kroil.

 

[Sticky]

Nissan's suggestion is the LAST thing you should do.

Here's the steps I would take:

1. Weld a nut on if possible.
2. Good quality left hand drill bit.
3. Small diamond burr.
4. Torch.

In all cases I'd hit it first with Kroil or PB Blaster. Never would I use a regular drill unless every other method failed.

 

[WheelsNT]

If the old bolt didn't go completely to the bottom of the hole, you may have some untouched threads down there. As long as you're careful not to mess them up when you drill out the rest of the original bolt, you might be able to use a new bolt that's just slightly longer which will reach the good threads.

 

[ImportTuner]

I had the same problem on a Chrysler LeBaron; I drilled out the broken screw starting with a small drill and moving up in size. After removing the screw, the hole was not in great shape so I put in a heli-coil and it has held up for 140,000 miles (was done at 73,000) before I sold the car.

 

[tatra]

if the threads are beyond repair, try this product, we use these at work and are far supeior than helicoils imho........


http://www.groov-pin.com/

nice thing about these is that you only have to use standard drills and taps, unlike helicoils that usually require you to buy their kit...........i have used both and can't say enough good thingd about these...............actually been awhile since i had to install one as neversieze is used more now than ever...........

 

[tatra]

see how long it's been, reread their site and a tap isn't required even..........bonus, one less tool.............just be sure to clean out cuttings after install............and for one bolt you shouldn;t need the "insatllation tool "as we just use a grde 8 bolt and hardened washer...............any friends in the railroad , heavey equipment industry?............dunno what the aircraft industry uses?....................

 

[MechanicforLife]

Snapped off an left handed bit extractor inside the drilled bolt hole
everything was going good, quarter turn here then a half quarter turn and snap, the titanium extractor snapped off, forgot to look on the package as to see what origin they were made and saw in fine print made in china , I got a Irwin drill bit and hit the sides to take off the fatty metal took it off like a sinch but the left handed bit didnt hold up, I used a t-handle wrench to hold the bit.
Next few days when I get some time Im off to the junkyard to get the mainfold lol
Hard lesson, I'll post some pics, its raining hard outside
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[Sticky]

diamond burrs..... trust me they work and will eat through that extractor.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Sticky, How much would that be and where would I get them?
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[Bob Paulin]

If the threads of a 3/8" diameter bolt are rusted/corroded enough to break the full-diameter bolt while attempting to remove it, a 1/4" diameter "extractor"/"easy-out", by itself, is NOT the answer.

As a matter of fact, I'll take odds on the hardened, brittle "extractor" breaking in the hole.

It's THAT simple, and a pretty safe bet on my part!

 

[Sticky]

Sticky, How much would that be and where would I get them?

Free from your dentist if you keep a good relationship with him/her.... most use them once for a patient then discard them. They are usually 90%+ usable life. Otherwise, pick a few up from grainger - they don't cost that much and will come in handy. Just remember when using them that they are the opposite of drilling in metal - with these use very light pressure and high speed - let the bit do the work.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Okay Bob you won, snapped off read my lastest post before this one, So whats the answer?
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[Sticky]

examples on http://www.lopacki.com/burrs/

 

[nissan_crawler]

Snapped off an left handed bit extractor inside the drilled bolt hole
everything was going good, quarter turn here then a half quarter turn and snap, the titanium extractor snapped off, forgot to look on the package as to see what origin they were made and saw in fine print made in china , I got a Irwin drill bit and hit the sides to take off the fatty metal took it off like a sinch but the left handed bit didnt hold up, I used a t-handle wrench to hold the bit.
Next few days when I get some time Im off to the junkyard to get the mainfold lol
Hard lesson, I'll post some pics, its raining hard outside

What kind of extractor were you using?

 

[John Timmins]

If it is long enough put vice grips on it. Drill it if you have to and use the E Z out.

Regardless of whatever way you go, heat the stud with a torch and melt some bees wax on the stud. You can get a block of it at hardware or buliding supply houses. ALWAYS ask the oldest guys working there where the bees wax is...or any question for that matter. Anyway....

Bees wax was used 100 years before WD 40 or Blaster, or Liquid Wrench was invented. Don't overheat. Get it hot ahd melt the bees wax on the stud. Reheat if necessary. Put a sharp chisel against the stud and tap. The bees wax will work every time!

If you can't find bees was get some on the internet for about $1 a block. It is the best tool you can have to loosen up nasty and tight problems. Try it.

DaytonaJohn

 

[MechanicforLife]

here they are
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[nissan_crawler]

here they are

I refer you to my original post:

Drill it and try an ez-out. 2 tips with that:

1. Get the ezouts with the hex end on it that have the short ezout tip on it, MUCH less likely to break then the standard style that use a tap handle.

2. Drill damn straight down the center. If the ez-out doesn't work, find out what drill bit is needed to tap that size bolt, and drill through with that size bit. 9 times out of 10, it'll chip up what's left of the bolt and you'll be left with a clean hole. If not, get a pick and clean it up. If that doesn't work, you'll have to chase the threads.

I do this all the time on jets, it's no big deal.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Okay so I have a irwin drill bit 3/16 and its dam hard to try and drill it out whats next? I called down there and they are refunding my money but dam this is catostraphic, Looking into some intake manifolds now lol
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[eschoendorff]

Did you miss the post right above yours? Did you try any of the suggestions that have been given?

I guess that if I were one of the folks posting helpful tips here, I'd be a little miffed. You've been given a wealth of time-tested methods, but you did your own thing anyway and used the wrong tools. Then, 58 posts later you ask what's next?

If anyone told you, would you bother listening?

Sorry to sound like a ********, but after reading about your fiasco, it seems like you are your own worst enemy here....

 

[nissan_crawler]

Okay so I have a irwin drill bit 3/16 and its dam hard to try and drill it out whats next? I called down there and they are refunding my money but dam this is catostraphic, Looking into some intake manifolds now lol

Carbide bit $$$$ That or take it to a machine shop. Either way, it's going to cost you. that's why I don't use those extractors. My machinist back home could blow exhaust studs out of a head with a torch.

 

[goodfellow]

Got a MIG or an Arc welder? Just put a big flat washer over the broken stud and weld the washer to the stud (err -- broken tap -- whatever is left). Then tack weld a nut to the washer. The heat will help expand the stud to break the corrosion bond and you'll get enough leverage with a socket or wrench on the nut to get it out.

Those stud extractors you bought are worthless -- as Nissan said, they break easily.

You don't have many options left before you have to take this thing to a qualified machinist, and chances are, he'll use the exact technique I just described to get the stud out.

 

[Junkman]

Did you miss the post right above yours? Did you try any of the suggestions that have been given?

I guess that if I were one of the folks posting helpful tips here, I'd be a little miffed. You've been given a wealth of time-tested methods, but you did your own thing anyway and used the wrong tools. Then, 58 posts later you ask what's next?

If anyone told you, would you bother listening?

Sorry to sound like a ********, but after reading about your fiasco, it seems like you are your own worst enemy here....

Are you trying to knock me out of first place cranky curmudgeon??? I will agree with you that he isn't listening to the advice that he has been given, but that is because he hasn't enough years experience. Some people just have to learn the hard way first, and they learn to listen to experience later on.
If you are going to take the intake manifold off, then you should be able to access the bolt from underneath. Get yourself some heat, and apply what you have learned on this thread. You should be able to get it out from the bottom using the torch and bees wax. If not, then take it to a local machine shop and they will get it out for you. At least with the original intake manifold, you will not run into other fitment problems as you will with a replacement...

 

[swgray]

If anyone told you, would you bother listening?

Sorry to sound like a ********, but after reading about your fiasco, it seems like you are your own worst enemy here....for life.

Well, I know you were thinking it.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Did you miss the post right above yours? Did you try any of the suggestions that have been given?

I guess that if I were one of the folks posting helpful tips here, I'd be a little miffed. You've been given a wealth of time-tested methods, but you did your own thing anyway and used the wrong tools. Then, 58 posts later you ask what's next?

If anyone told you, would you bother listening?

Sorry to sound like a ********, but after reading about your fiasco, it seems like you are your own worst enemy here....

First off take an easy grandma, And like I said I will live and learn, Yeah I asked whats next like if theres another way out.
The only reason I didnt use the other methods a torch or a weld is because the car leaks alot of gas and theres alot of gas residue on the whole motor. I dont feel like blowing myself up or catching somebody elses car on fire.

As far as my problem goes I decided to search for a new used intake, Probably around $40 at pick apart, thankyou all for your input and experiences with snapped off bolts, Im not worthy I know
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[MechanicforLife]

As a Matter a fact I do got a Mig Welder, I will take it off and see if I can access the bolt from underneath otherwise IM off to the junkyard. With the refund for the bits IM half way into the price for a used intake.
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[trackwelder]

As a Matter a fact I do got a Mig Welder, I will take it off and see if I can access the bolt from underneath otherwise IM off to the junkyard. With the refund for the bits IM half way into the price for a used intake.

Well if you take it off why not try to weld a nut on and save some cash, what do you have to lose. I myself would fix the gas leak problem and leave the intake in place. You can fix this problem without removing the intake!

 

[Junkman]

What it the year of this GMC? Do you realize that when you remove the intake, you have to reinstall with new gaskets. This is going to add to your cost. The other thing to think about, is that it has to be an exact replacement, since most engines had specially drilled holes for certain emission items that will need to be transfered. If it is missing a hole for a particular item, then you are screwed, and now have an intake that isn't suitable. Don't be stubborn, listen to those that are trying to help you, and consider that they have also been down the same road, but it was a long time ago. They have since learned the error of their ways, and are trying to impart this knowledge to you, so you don't make the same mistakes as they did.

 

[DarrenF]

Got a MIG or an Arc welder? Just put a big flat washer over the broken stud and weld the washer to the stud (err -- broken tap -- whatever is left). Then tack weld a nut to the washer. The heat will help expand the stud to break the corrosion bond and you'll get enough leverage with a socket or wrench on the nut to get it out.

Those stud extractors you bought are worthless -- as Nissan said, they break easily.

You don't have many options left before you have to take this thing to a qualified machinist, and chances are, he'll use the exact technique I just described to get the stud out.

I was taught this method years ago by a wise old mechanic. I now use this method religiously on the job and teach it to everyone who will listen. Up here in the land of rust we deal with a lot of broken bolts. I hate ez-outs with a passion and have thrown all mine out after mastering the 'weld out' method, as i call it.

The washer is the key element here. Remember this if you try this. Burn the washer into the broken piece. The nut only needs to be tacked to the washer. If clearance is tight, you can weld a long bolt to the washer, instead of a nut. It can be welded at an angle if needed. Sometimes it helps to tack the washer to the tip of a throw away screwdriver to help position it. Once the broken piece starts moving a bit hit it with penetrating fluid if needed.

I have even welded down the center of a chunk of copper tubing to extract a wheel stud on a semi that was snapped off over 1/2" below flush. The copper protected the exposed threads inside the hub. There are many more tricks that can be used, learned, or adapted with this method.

Drilling *****. Welding is cool.

 

[Bob Paulin]

If you are going to take the intake manifold off, then you should be able to access the bolt from underneath.

?????

The end of the bolt will STILL be in the water jacket behind the thermostat mount.


It's a little late now, but I might have tried to heat the end of the bolt inside the water jacket with a small welding tip while trying to work it out.

Welding a washer/nut onto the end of the bolt is also an excellent, well-proven method. The heat from welding often helps to loosen things up, and the nut or bolt gives you something to turn the threaded piece with.


BTW - I, too, have also removed broken head bolts and manifold studs using an oxy-acetylene torch.

I wouldn't suggest it for anyone who doesn't use a torch on a semi-regular basis, and I wouldn't try it on an aluminum manifold....cast iron only!

The trick is to start in the center, and work your way out in a circular motion without stopping.

If you stop, it allows the heat to carry on to the outside, increasing the potential of damaging threads.

If all goes well, you will see the broken piece melt away and expose the threads.

A quick run with a thread chaser - or a tap, if necessary - should be all that is necessary.

I would expend the funds on a gasket set in order to remove the manifold and set it up where I can work the angles best.

FWIW - My last two vehicles - Chevy Astro Van and GMC Sonoma pickup - have both had the 4.3 V-6, which has a thermostat setup similar to the above pics.

On both vehicles, I changed the original thermostat at 150k - plus miles.

When I know that there is a possibility of extreme corrosion - such as one end of the bolt being in the cooling media - I use a 3/8" butterfly impact wrench in the following manner.

I set the socket on the bolt and start the wrench off at "0", slowly increasing the air supply until it begins to hammer softly.

I slowly increase the pressure until the bolt just starts to move - at which point I STOP increasing pressure.

Sometimes I find that I have to "work" it back and forth, but it usually comes out in one piece.

It takes a little time, but a lot less than digging out a broken piece.

The softer hammering coupled with the reduced torque helps to break the corrosion.....NOT the bolt.

I re-assemble with a generous dab of anti-seize.

 

[paramudduck]

That sounds like the style an old guy taught me years ago on motorcyles. But he would use a hand impact driver and hit it with the lightest ball peen he could find. It would take him a while but he would work out bolts no one else could.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Bob, I agree with you about using the weld method I do not use it on a daily basis, I will wait until I talk it over with another family member, The car/Jimmy

Is a 85 GMC 2.8L 2bbl, The manifold is made of aluminum, I picked up some washers and bolts today about 6 or 7 of each, just in case the first tries dont work. Im going to practice tacking some welds on old bolts to better myself. Thanks for the heads up. I would of welded it first but I have never used a welder.
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[MechanicforLife]

Okay after two weeks of work and some other stuff I am now ready the welder is a 115v arc welder will this do? I know its small but its all I got. What do yah guys think?

Some quick questions too, The bolts are rusted and its supposively a aluminum intake, well wouldnt the bolts of rusted in a cast intake manifold and not a aluminum manifold?
So if the case being the intake manifold is cast iron then I would have to worry about warping the surface. Practicing my welds its not that hard. IM just wondering what gauge to use I am praticing with 5/64 welding rod.. Should I go bigger in size ?

 

[MechanicforLife]

I guess 5/64 is as big as I can go, the welder is a Campbell Hausfeld, some cheapie I got for free

 

[dwilliams35]

Those spiral EZ outs are definitely junk. One way or another, starting with a left handed drill bit is a good start: a lot of the easier ones will come out before you ever think about picking up an EZ out. If I've gotta use an EZ out, it's going to be the square taper ones: the shock of tapping them in seems to break a lot more than just torque from a spiral one digging it's way in (just before it snaps, of course).

 

[speed bump]

I guess 5/64 is as big as I can go, the welder is a Campbell Hausfeld, some cheapie I got for free

If it was me I would use the smallest 6013 rod I could, mainly becuase I find it very easy run 6013 for tacks and you don't need anything bigger.

 

[rhandwor]

If a cast iron intake I would center punch it and use the size drill for the tap. Even if you are a little off the bolt will hold. I done many exhaust manifolds this way.

 

[MechanicforLife]

Hey thanks everyone for your concerns, I finally got around to semi finishing this pita, I snapped off a ez out in the drill hole, It wouldnt of worked it was to far past that stage. There was no way I could(myself) Welded it up with all the gas leaking out of the Carb it was everywhere thats why I didnt weld it at first anyways. Also I tried to get a price quote and everywhere I called wanted $120 to $180 dollars maybe even more. Most said it would have to be drilled out and retapped with a bigger size bolt , Thought about it 20 mins. lol And I called the junkyard and picked up a used one for $75, also got the new intake and valve cover gaskets, So all in all I replaced the valve cover gaskets that were leaking(needed to be replaced anyway) total was about $120. I know I didnt listen but hey now I know not to gorilla joe everything I get my hands on. Took my time today and cleaned the surface of the block tommorrow the new (used) intake is going on. I know this isnt a tech forum but thanks for your help everyone.


Tom

 

[a390st]

Those spiral EZ outs are definitely junk. One way or another, starting with a left handed drill bit is a good start: a lot of the easier ones will come out before you ever think about picking up an EZ out. If I've gotta use an EZ out, it's going to be the square taper ones: the shock of tapping them in seems to break a lot more than just torque from a spiral one digging it's way in (just before it snaps, of course).

The square ones are just as bad as the spiral ones. They are two different designs for two different purposes. The spiral ones are for softer metal, while the square ones are for harder metal. The square ones will ream out softer metal where the spiral ones will work (more often). They are both no good, and if a left handed drill bit doesn't get it out, it's going to be a pain. I had to use an ez out last week and it got the first screw out and broke out in the second. The difference between me and a lot of people is that I assume that they will break, so I don't get near as frustrated when they do.

 

[dwilliams35]

The square ones are just as bad as the spiral ones. They are two different designs for two different purposes. The spiral ones are for softer metal, while the square ones are for harder metal. The square ones will ream out softer metal where the spiral ones will work (more often). They are both no good, and if a left handed drill bit doesn't get it out, it's going to be a pain. I had to use an ez out last week and it got the first screw out and broke out in the second. The difference between me and a lot of people is that I assume that they will break, so I don't get near as frustrated when they do.

Well, I haven't used a spiral version in maybe five or ten years; gave up on them as useless a long time ago. Meanwhile, I haven't had nearly the problems with the square ones that you apparently have had: as long as they're a quality brand, I've been pretty dang successful with them. (probably haven't broken one in 3-4 years, either) Are they going to pull out a bolt that's solidly rusted to the base metal? probably not. Dissimilar metal corrosion? probably not that either. That being said, if it's in clean, I can get it out clean in a significant majority of instances.

 

[toddjg]

the last time i used a screw extractor it was on a stromberg carb which is aluminum with a brass screw which was 60 years old using heat would have melted it so a drill and extractor did the trick.