Snappy, Harbor freight, Someones missing?

[monomach]

Ugh. You can't just rank brands like that. A lot of them have multiple lines that are of very disparate qualities. Each has garbage and each has stuff that you can use in a pro garage for a couple of decades. Craftsman has some stuff that is the exact same as Snap-On, bought from the same manufacturer, just rebranded with their respective logos. On the the other hand, they also have some **** that no one wants to use (lobster claws, anyone?).

Harbor Freight has a few things that you can't break even if you try (how about that 25" 1/2" breaker?). Conversely, they also have some things that shatter if you look at them funny.

$50 Craftsman Premium Grade 84t Ratchet =/= standard $10 clunky 36t Craftsman raised panel with plastic selector lever that either breaks or reverses on its own

Pittsburgh Pro Impact sockets that outlast some truck brands =/= the Pittsburgh standard Impact sockets that might as well come pre-cracked to save the end user 4-5 minutes

I can introduce you to an entire VW/Audi shop (6 techs) that uses a certain style of Harbor Freight ratchet as their go-tos. Each guy in that shop would probably buy the same ratchets tomorrow even if they jumped in price to 5x what they cost today. On the other hand, every single tech in that shop also uses Snap-on line wrenches because we're pretty sure they were carried to earth by angels.

In my experience, every brand has some good tools and some crappy tools, other than Durasteel (all bad) or Wright (all good...so far).

 

[nicksnothereman]

I've been kind of curious, as i've read a ton of threads, i see HF and Snap-On mentioned almost religiously, is Snap-On representing everyone now? I like the rebranded CAT wrenches (Snap-On Blue Point whatever) but i was definitely more impressed with the Matco stuff at the time. Or is there a major issue regarding Matco that i'm missing?

I've always been under the impression the tree went Store Brand -> Harbor Freight -> Napa / Auto store (Lifetime warranty stuff specifically, EX. Evercraft) -> MAC / Proto / SK / Blue Point / Silver Eagle-> Gear Wrench -> Snap-On / Matco
this is mostly in terms of price and warranty specs.

Dude... Gearwrench better than sk, mac, and proto? (not to mention the other problems with this list).

I thought most of matco's stuff was rebranded import stuff. Similar to if not the same as the stuff you can find at other brands for far cheaper. That's a pretty big issue.

 

[Hantke]

Dude... Gearwrench better than sk, mac, and proto? (not to mention the other problems with this list).

I thought most of matco's stuff was rebranded import stuff. Similar to if not the same as the stuff you can find at other brands for far cheaper. That's a pretty big issue.

Well that's what i was told at the first shop i worked at, never been told different 'till i started reading your guys's stuff. Still trying to figure out what the odd imprint on the gear wrench wrench is.
Another thing i think is important to consider is the warranty, if i broke an SK socket where i live, i'd have to mail it somewhere or drive a few hours (I assume someone in the big city deals with them) to get a new one, if i broke a Snap-On / Matco, i could be at any 5 of the frequent shops within 10 minutes. not to mention i'd never even heard of SK outside of the one guy from a laksa before. Though i'm glad to hear it's more competitive than I thought it was. I found out that MAC gives 20%max to current students for discount and limits sales to $15,000 original price, all orders must be mailed (no online) and called in in advanced (according to their new program). SK / Proto have no program that they publicly list, and in all, Snap-On / Matco will equal the same cost to me as proto or SK or any of those, only Bluepoint and Silver Eagle are cheaper (in the same field).

 

[nicksnothereman]

Well that's what i was told at the first shop i worked at, never been told different 'till i started reading your guys's stuff. Still trying to figure out what the odd imprint on the gear wrench wrench is.
Another thing i think is important to consider is the warranty, if i broke an SK socket where i live, i'd have to mail it somewhere or drive a few hours (I assume someone in the big city deals with them) to get a new one, if i broke a Snap-On / Matco, i could be at any 5 of the frequent shops within 10 minutes. not to mention i'd never even heard of SK outside of the one guy from a laksa before. Though i'm glad to hear it's more competitive than I thought it was. I found out that MAC gives 20%max to current students for discount and limits sales to $15,000 original price, all orders must be mailed (no online) and called in in advanced (according to their new program). SK / Proto have no program that they publicly list, and in all, Snap-On / Matco will equal the same cost to me as proto or SK or any of those, only Bluepoint and Silver Eagle are cheaper (in the same field).

That's true about the mail in warranty but you're also assuming that the truck drivers want to warranty tools which isn't always the case. Talk to the other guys you know that are dealing with them and go with the one that has the best reputation even if it's not the "best discount".

The thing with the mainly "import" brands (technically "re-brands") (including bluepoint, silver eagle, gearwrench, etc.) is that the cost isn't always justified by what you're paying and it's often the case that they will switch suppliers down the line and it's typically not a step up in quality for warranty purposes. It all depends on the cost and warranty. The warranty is only as good as the driver or alternatively the place you're buying it.

 

[Hantke]

That's true about the mail in warranty but you're also assuming that the truck drivers want to warranty tools which isn't always the case. Talk to the other guys you know that are dealing with them and go with the one that has the best reputation even if it's not the "best discount".

The thing with the mainly "import" brands (technically "re-brands") (including bluepoint, silver eagle, gearwrench, etc.) is that the cost isn't always justified by what you're paying and it's often the case that they will switch suppliers down the line and it's typically not a step up in quality for warranty purposes. It all depends on the cost and warranty. The warranty is only as good as the driver or alternatively the place you're buying it.

That's true, i guess i've been extremely biased to Matco because the Snap-On guy would refuse to warranty anything i bought with a student discount (wasn't worth his time and costs him too much money according to the previous students who warned me), leaving me with the Matco dealer (who was extremely nice and literally sold anything he could, motorcycles, boxes, tools, giveaways for guns, etc.) and so i just bought in with the crowd.

 

[Tbirdtc]

When I started working w had the big 3 warrants were not a prob now I can get Mac warranted w huge argument through a large local shop he complains he has to pay shipping I don't get my tools back for a month
Same shop gets a snap on guy 6 times a year same deal and no local Matco at all I have had better luck dealing w company directly I live 30 min from snap on headquarters and I wait months to get warranty but on the flip side if u woe rather have a new replacement u get them by sending ur item back or at least that's been my experience
I think the newer c man is mostly **** and I have been screwed there too but warranty at Sears is usually painless and instant but if u had a professional screwdriver or pliers they will try to give u a standard one I have heard some stores will give u a gift card but I have only been screwed in these cases so far

 

[bushmechanic]

Man,I've been on this cite for a while now,and it seems like this topic has been beat to death. I will have 39 plus years as a maintenance machinist and 6 plus years as an airframe repairman before that,so I"ve wrenched for a lot of years for a living and as a hobby. The one thing I know for sure is that everyone has their favorite brand of tools, and it's usually what they can afford or want to spend on tools and they will fight to the bitter end to justify their favorites.
We would get more done in the garage/shop if we stopped the ******* contests about tool brands.The fasteners don't care what brand of wrench is on them.

Mike

It's fun to argue about tool brands. I haven't even had a chance to do so here yet, and I'm already entertained.

 

[kams1973]

It's fun to argue about tool brands. I haven't even had a chance to do so here yet, and I'm already entertained.

You might as well stock on the popcorn now....it's going to be a long show.

 

[Wakefield]

Arguably the high end Japanese brands vs. the German brands vs. the American brands?

 

[BK13]

My guess would be a matter of taste and preference rather than any one being better than the other two.

I will say that the pics I've seen, Nepros is dead ****....

 

[Hantke]

When I started working w had the big 3 warrants were not a prob now I can get Mac warranted w huge argument through a large local shop he complains he has to pay shipping I don't get my tools back for a month
Same shop gets a snap on guy 6 times a year same deal and no local Matco at all I have had better luck dealing w company directly I live 30 min from snap on headquarters and I wait months to get warranty but on the flip side if u woe rather have a new replacement u get them by sending ur item back or at least that's been my experience
I think the newer c man is mostly **** and I have been screwed there too but warranty at Sears is usually painless and instant but if u had a professional screwdriver or pliers they will try to give u a standard one I have heard some stores will give u a gift card but I have only been screwed in these cases so far

Dang, that's a pain in the ***! I don't really like Cman so not too worried there, but that seems unanimous now a days withe the hate for Cman.

It's fun to argue about tool brands. I haven't even had a chance to do so here yet, and I'm already entertained.

No kidding, i'm down to argue, but i don't have a favorite really, so i'll just argue for the opposing side!

You might as well stock on the popcorn now....it's going to be a long show.

Works for me, most hatred has a nugget of truth buried down in there, maybe deep down in there, but it's there.

Arguably the high end Japanese brands vs. the German brands vs. the American brands?

German wins. OK maybe not, but i like their cars.

My guess would be a matter of taste and preference rather than any one being better than the other two.

I will say that the pics I've seen, Nepros is dead ****....

How long has Nepros been around?

 

[Wakefield]

Nepros seems to be an offshoot or deluxe selection of parent brand KTC (Kyoto Tool Company)

 

[steelespeed]

NEPROS is in fact KTC's high-end product line. There are some pics on here somewhere...they look incredible.

I have a few Ko-ken sockets in British Whitworth sizes from Japan and they are also extremely high quality.

 

[Hantke]

NEPROS is in fact KTC's high-end product line. There are some pics on here somewhere...they look incredible.

I have a few Ko-ken sockets in British Whitworth sizes from Japan and they are also extremely high quality.

That's good to know! the prices are damn high after shipping though. Not sure if i want to spend that much just to be unique haha.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Ugh. You can't just rank brands like that. A lot of them have multiple lines that are of very disparate qualities. Each has garbage and each has stuff that you can use in a pro garage for a couple of decades. Craftsman has some stuff that is the exact same as Snap-On, bought from the same manufacturer, just rebranded with their respective logos. On the the other hand, they also have some **** that no one wants to use (lobster claws, anyone?).

Harbor Freight has a few things that you can't break even if you try (how about that 25" 1/2" breaker?). Conversely, they also have some things that shatter if you look at them funny.

$50 Craftsman Premium Grade 84t Ratchet =/= standard $10 clunky 36t Craftsman raised panel with plastic selector lever that either breaks or reverses on its own

Pittsburgh Pro Impact sockets that outlast some truck brands =/= the Pittsburgh standard Impact sockets that might as well come pre-cracked to save the end user 4-5 minutes

I can introduce you to an entire VW/Audi shop (6 techs) that uses a certain style of Harbor Freight ratchet as their go-tos. Each guy in that shop would probably buy the same ratchets tomorrow even if they jumped in price to 5x what they cost today. On the other hand, every single tech in that shop also uses Snap-on line wrenches because we're pretty sure they were carried to earth by angels.

In my experience, every brand has some good tools and some crappy tools, other than Durasteel (all bad) or Wright (all good...so far).

This is a really good summation of the situation.

Personally I tend to buy from a maker what is good and within my budget. I grew up with Craftsman wrenches and sockets and, later, HF sockets and never knew there was anything better (I thought Craftsman was "high end"). They worked. Hell the HF sockets were better for us than the Craftsman sockets. The HF sockets made in Taiwan are pretty damn good.

Availability can also be an issue. Yes, we can order a lot of things but I try to somewhat stick with what is available locally in order to be able to get a replacement quickly...having multiple sets is also a good thing, too.

What I will absolutely not buy is cheap store brand tools. Like when you go into Wal-Mart and see the stuff that makes HF look like Snap On and is meant for Harry the Homeowner's seldom used toolbox. No thanks.

 

[d4dawg]

...
I can introduce you to an entire VW/Audi shop (6 techs) that uses a certain style of Harbor Freight ratchet as their go-tos. Each guy in that shop would probably buy the same ratchets tomorrow even if they jumped in price to 5x what they cost today. On the other hand, every single tech in that shop also uses Snap-on line wrenches because we're pretty sure they were carried to earth by angels.
...

Which ratchet is it? I would like to check it out the next time I visit HF. Thanks.

 

[monomach]

Which ratchet is it? I would like to check it out the next time I visit HF. Thanks.

The composite model. It's got a metal core with plastic covering it. I haven't personally used it in 1/2" because it doesn't come with a longer handle and I like my ancient Proto, but in 1/4" and 3/8", it's fantastic for your non-flex needs. You'll see a lot of people loving on it in threads around here.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-composite-ratchet-66312.html

 

[Hantke]

The composite model. It's got a metal core with plastic covering it. I haven't personally used it in 1/2" because it doesn't come with a longer handle and I like my ancient Proto, but in 1/4" and 3/8", it's fantastic for your non-flex needs. You'll see a lot of people loving on it in threads around here.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-composite-ratchet-66312.html

They make a "pro" one that doesn't have the weird bend in it, but all black coated metal and a similar handle, i was wondering about it, but for now i appreciate the classic style ratchets, easier to store with limited space as well.

 

[monomach]

They make a "pro" one that doesn't have the weird bend in it, but all black coated metal and a similar handle, i was wondering about it, but for now i appreciate the classic style ratchets, easier to store with limited space as well.

The one I linked to is a "pro" model. I haven't been to Harbor freight since right before Christmas, but there wasn't a straight one around back then. I'll have to look for it and see whether it's worth a damn, but the bend isn't weird. The bend is great.

 

[Hantke]

The one I linked to is a "pro" model. I haven't been to Harbor freight since right before Christmas, but there wasn't a straight one around back then. I'll have to look for it and see whether it's worth a damn, but the bend isn't weird. The bend is great.

I don't think i would appreciate as much as i should to be honest. They did have a straight one 2 days ago out here though

 

[Thunderbisciut]

Definitely not a one brand fits all type of thing. This is a basic rundown of my preferences:

Ratchets/sockets - Blackhawk
Impact sockets - Sunex
Wrenches - Proto
Flare nut wrenches - SK
Ratcheting wrenches - Armstrong
Screwdriver type tools - Vessel
Screwdriver bits - Zephyr
Hammers - Vaughn and trying out Picard
Pliers type tools - NWS
Tool carts - Harbor Freight
Air tools - Chicago Pneumatic
Pry bars - Snap On
Drill bits - Norseman
Saw blades and cutters - Trying out Ruko

I put money into the items that I have been frustrated with in the past. I have been very happy with my "budget" Blackhawk and Sunex stuff, but I do have a lot of money in my screwdriver bits, pliers and wrenches.

Also, don't feel you have to buy new tools. I got my Proto 500 series wrenches in like new condition for around $100, my untouched Armstrong reversible ratcheting wrenches for around the same, and on and on.

Don't be afraid to pick things up and try them out in the store. You might feel like an idiot loosening an imaginary bolt, but how the tool feels is very important. An indestructible tool is useless if it's uncomfortable to use.

 

[Hantke]

Definitely not a one brand fits all type of thing. This is a basic rundown of my preferences:

Ratchets/sockets - Blackhawk
Impact sockets - Sunex
Wrenches - Proto
Flare nut wrenches - SK
Ratcheting wrenches - Armstrong
Screwdriver type tools - Vessel
Screwdriver bits - Zephyr
Hammers - Vaughn and trying out Picard
Pliers type tools - NWS
Tool carts - Harbor Freight
Air tools - Chicago Pneumatic
Pry bars - Snap On
Drill bits - Norseman
Saw blades and cutters - Trying out Ruko

I put money into the items that I have been frustrated with in the past. I have been very happy with my "budget" Blackhawk and Sunex stuff, but I do have a lot of money in my screwdriver bits, pliers and wrenches.

Also, don't feel you have to buy new tools. I got my Proto 500 series wrenches in like new condition for around $100, my untouched Armstrong reversible ratcheting wrenches for around the same, and on and on.

Don't be afraid to pick things up and try them out in the store. You might feel like an idiot loosening an imaginary bolt, but how the tool feels is very important. An indestructible tool is useless if it's uncomfortable to use.

I'm usually the idiot holding a bolt and "tightening" it into my hand, not always the best impression on employee's, but i like to touch every, then put it back, play with something else, then go back and touch it again. Even my girlfriends done cloths shopping when i'm really making a hard decision between two tools at sears.
I've been hearing really good things about proto, i never knew they were originally PLVMB before the got sued for copy-write infringement by plumb.